Burnley Grammar School

Hi Matthew, Yeh it would have been a good bonding experience!The other boys seemed a bit uneasy at first cupping their hands in front when we lined up in the corridor. As Stuart mentioned it was only like showering after games or football 95% we were in the water so it was something they had to get usedto

To Frank C.
Thanks to your father, at the start of term, you were quite prepared but were you aware of how the other boys felt? Did you eventually take part in galas in front of prospective pupils and their parents? Incidentally, it's a pity that you and your father weren't able to experience swimming together naked.

Biggles,
I wouldn't use the word uncomfortable or even embarrassing to be honest for me personally. Talking with a couple of old school mates I'm still in touch with they did however find it so especially in the last two years but then they were developing. For me being a "boy" throughout my time there meant it was pretty ok.
Regardless of what any boy felt it was back then just accepted and you did what you were told.

As well as the galas it was taken as being perfectly normal that there was nothing wrong in it. I recall one swimming lesson when i was about 12 . I was for some reason not in the water at the point the door to the pool opened and the head teacher walked in with a family showing them round the school. The family was mum, dad , a boy about 8 and his older sister about my age. The head even asked me a couple of questions. It was seen as normal. I didnt feel embarrassed in front of the adults,but a bit uneasy with the girl who clearly was looking with amazement!

Frank, Stewart,

I think it is one thing swimming naked between boys and swimming galas in front of spectators including women, whether school staff, parents or other guests.

Did you feel uncomfortable swimming nude in front of those guests during swim galas?
Also, were the boys' sisters allowed to watch the nude galas together with their parents?

FrankC. Sounds similar though i started my prep school age 9 in 1973. We happily swam naked at that age. The school had its own swim gala but that was just school and staff present including the very few female staff.
The gala allowed boys in the oldest year to wear trunks ( year 8s nowadays) and was held in the summer term so most were 13. It was a convention though that you only wore trunks if you had something to hide ( i.e. Had started puberty) so unfortunately for me aged still 12, august birtday, i was one of only a few naked boys in my year group. Not that i was worried about swimming naked more embarrassed that was still a boy and most of mates were not.

Nude swimming wasnt seen as anything odd, all boys, no different to showers after footie or rugby.

Frank C
It is interesting how times have changed. I note your comments about going swimming and then changing in front of other boys and dads which helped you to get used to that situation ready for your new school.
nowadays it seems most municipal swimming pools have "Changing Villages" which accommodate male & female so changing of course is done in cubicles. It is interesting that when I go to the Gym, how many of the young lads and not so young males
perhaps in their 20's only undress so far in the communal changing area and then go into the toilet cubicle to complete their change. Whereas those of us always used to communal changing just get on with it.
However, I must say a school swimming gala with every swimming in the does seem curious, especially as you say it was put on for visitors of potential pupils.

Hi Stuart, I attended a prep school late sixties.We could never have envisaged such a dire situation the world would be in in our senior years.My parents attended an Open Day May '67 with a view to me attending in the Autumn.I sat an entrance exam never imagining I would pass it as it quite complex.We were treated to a Swimming Gala in the afternoon,All the boys swam naked right from the smaller ones to the oldest.It was then I realized that if I past the exam I would be swimming naked also.In the July of that year.The prep school wrote to my parents stating that I had gained a place.My Father was very supportive knowing that I had a shy and inward personality.In the summer holidays he took me to the local swimming baths for some basic strokes and get me used to being naked after in the showers with older boys and fathers.This made me more confident in myself.When I started in the September of that year I was already looking forward to the swimming lessons and was much less shy than I would have been otherwise. Keep well everybody,keep safe.

Biggles,Stuart My boarding school didn't have a swimming pool, in fact nor did the locality. The nearest would have been around 35 miles away. It never made any difference to us and we're happy with what sports we did play.

Biggles,Stuart My boarding school didn't have a swimming pool, in fact nor did the locality. The nearest would have been around 35 miles away. It never made any difference to us and we're happy with what sports we did play.

Biggles indeed you are coreectt. My school in Surrey was a boarding/day school private and had its own swimming pool and was nude in the prep school, aged 9-13. The embarrassment of swimming naked was not even as issue at age 9. As boys hit puberty the first ones were either embarrassed or proud, whilst a couple of boys like myself had to endure not hitting puberty at all so stood out by the final year as very much boys. Luckily it was only teasing rather than anything worse.

Jono G,

Boarding schools were very different from normal day schools in many ways, including the strict and more regular physical exercise regime like you describe.

It was the same for nude swimming for boys when very few public(non-paying) schools had the luxury of a swimming pool.
In private(paying) and boarding schools it was not unusual to have a swimming pool where nude swimming was the norm for boys.

Biggles, At the boarding school I attended the start of each day was marked with an early morning run around 5.45am which, regardless of the weather, we did stripped to the waist. From Monday to Friday there was a proper timetabled PE lesson at which could be in the gym or outside. Inside we were all skins while outside teams were either all skins or skins vs vests.

Kevin,
Although it may be of some interest to recollect, I don't think that PE lessons were of such importance since they were just a once or twice weekly one hour lessons in most schools.

I think there were more important issues, which unfortunately are not featured on this site, like wearing uniforms or corporal punishment which were the norm in most schools and how they varied.

Although I genuinely tried to give of my best in every PE/Games lesson, I regularly failed to meet the teachers' expectations.

Regarding me, and others like me, as 'no hopers', they diverted their efforts to the more athletically inclined.

This led to the axiomatic situation where youngsters like myself, who would have benefitted the most from skilled coaching and encouragement, were sidelined, laughed at and punished; while the 'natural athletes' got all the doting praise and extra coaching time.

Surely the situation should have been the other way round, with those who most needed the support being given more time and encouragement, so as to develop and improve their skills.

Experiencing this situation for years left me with a conviction that any form of games/gymnastics was 'not for the likes of me' and hence I've been much less fit, all my life, than I might otherwise have been.

From the large number of views and comments on this photograph (far more than for anything else on Historyworld) it seems that the old traditional strict PE depicted made a big impression on all involved and is of continuing interest. The many comments provide a store of recollections, opinions and experiences which would be very informative for younger people and future generations. Maybe it should be made into a book or documentary.

I certainly remember communal showers, I never imagined men's showers to be any other way as it was just what we got used to.

In all other regards too, I agree with the assessment of Wallace.

I was at school in the 60s and 70s. My experiences were very much the same as those I read here:

PE was in white shorts, bare chested wearing white plimsolls, PE included gym, athletics in summer and running all year round.

Rugby was boots, shirt, shorts and socks played in the winter and spring terms.

Underpants were not allowed for either PE or rugby and being caught wearing them resulted in a bottom roasting application of the strap or slipper and even the cane if a repeat offender. One bare bottom dose of the strap convinced me to obey the rule.

Forgetting kit resulted in a dose of the cane, no exceptions, no excuses and then being told to find shorts only in the lost property box for the lesson.

Swimming was naked, it was private with only male staff present. If you had forgotten your kit you just hoped it was swimming!

Showers were communal, often cold and always compulsory.

I appreciate that for some swimming trunks were permitted but I think the rest was fairly normal fir the time.

Does anyone for instance remember having shower cubicles back then? Even now at my gym although there are a couple of cubicles the norm for showers is communal and no one seems bothered except for a few of the towel dancing boyz.

Phil,
We didn't have swimming at school, so I don't know what it would have been like to be made to swim nude as some posters describe.
More so when some posters describe that they had female teachers or instructors during nude swim lessons, although this seems to have only happened with junior boys up to 12 or so.
At least one or two posters even say that they were punished corporally by these female teachers if they misbehaved during these nude swim classes.

Other posters say that they had nude swimming galas in front of spectators, whether from inside or outside of the school.
I think some of these swim classes went too far with the boys being routinely humiliated.
I guess there is nothing wrong with boys swimming naked together, but when it goes as far as those described above it would have been a bit too much.

I wouldn't guess that Mr. Dando is a "weird troll," but I imagine that he had immodesty forced on him during his childhood and adolescence.
I also imagine that he wishes to provide for the current generation the protection which he himself had missed.

If my hunch is right, then I am in no position to criticize Mr. Dando.
I am tempted to take the opposite stance, but my motives are the same.
The whole time I was growing up, I was never seen naked by any female outside my own family.
I grew up wondering what it felt like to be naked outdoors.
So I like for boys of the present generation to get more corporeal acceptance than I got.

If I were to write up a phys ed kit, I would probably err in the opposite direction from Mr. Dando and write up something like what we see in the picture.
And I'd probably get arrested for it.

I suspect Mr Dando is just some kind of weird troll who would be best ignored

To John and Biggles,
In the experience of several posters on this site, a pair of trunks wasn't even needed for swimming.

I'm not sure what Mr Dando is trying to achieve by pursuing his diatribe on websites that are dedicated to reminiscing & discussing of what used to be. I think he seriously needs to find other sites to vent his strange views on. The fact that he seems to copy & paste p.e kit from all over the country is very weird in itself - quite obsessive in fact. I really wonder what motivates such an obsession!!

Biggles,
I totally agree with everything that you’ve said. I was perfectly happy doing PE in shorts and pumps, barefoot would have been ok if it had been the rule. A pair of trunks is all that is required to swim in.

Mr.Dando,
If boys were required to take all that PE kit you suggest to cover themselves from neck to feet, including for swimming, they would have to carry a large army sack on their shoulder to carry it all on PE days.

Boys don't need more than a pair of shorts for PE.
That is all we took with us to school on PE days.

Your other suggestion that swimming should be done in tops and long pants, where are they going to leave those wet clothing after swimming?

So you see that your suggestions are not even practical, not to mention ridiculous.

No these were not "Care free days" and if by the fact that "rules are far to restrictive" we no longer have male PE teachers with paedophilic tendencies entering the educational system, that is a price society must pay.

Even today there are still schools that "expect" pupils to shower. Here is one institution:http://stonydean.bucks.sch.uk/uniform-order-form/

PE Kit:

All pupils require:

black shorts and/or plain black jogging pants,
white t-shirt (plain or with school logo*),
sports socks,
football boots and trainers.
Burgundy Stony Dean sweatshirt*
A swimming costume and towel will be required by Y7 and some older pupils for weekly
All pupils should bring a towel and expect to shower after PE.
All items with an* can be purchased through the school office.

All clothing should be clearly marked with the pupil’s name, particularly those items of clothing

Let us all learn from historical examples of child abuse detailed in these threads to campaign for better privacy rights and gender neutral kits.

As Edmund Burke once said "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors."

It is time we campaigned for a national ban on compulsory school showers!

Stuart
Thank you for your contribution. I am sure they were more care free days. I know that there has to be safe guarding for youngsters. During my time as a leader we had compulsory training which included y this subject, but nowadays I sometimes think the rules are far to restrictive and that is why it is difficult to get people to volunteer to work with youngsters.

Danny,Josh i was in all boy scouts in the 70s in Hampshire and have great memories of traditional camps as well as mountaineering trips when as an older teen we went to the Lake District and Cairngorms.
On camp everyone took showers first thing in the morning and in the evening.
On summer camp standard clothing was, if the british summer was kind , shorts and nothing else. No one cared about being bare chested it was nice to feel the sun.

Swimming was always with trunks though we did as a troop use a pool sometimes during term time for activities - if a boy forgot his trunks he just swam nude. Tough but didnt forget next time!

Danny
When I was a Scout aged 11 to 15 it was an all male organisation. with all male leaders. At camp as you say it was open showers and no privacy in the Latrines(toilets)We also swam in rivers (no health & safety worries)The only trunks available were the briefs style and some lads who had not got trunks swam in their pants which were really the same design. There were some occasions when we swum naked ( I think as a dare) although he leaders always wore trunks.

In time I became an assistant leader and then took on the role of leader within the same group that I had been a scout and so just carried on in the same way. The normal wear in camp was shorts and in that era they were short. Sometimes lads would just run around in their briefs. This was mainly first thing in the morning when they woke up because that was what they had slept in being too manly of course. to wear pyjamas. I had no doubt at the time that some of the older scouts goaded each other into sleeping au natural.
It was in my latter years as I said that girls became scout and this did change the whole situation. Whether at a weekly meeting or camp we had to have female leaders present, and of course at camp strict regimes on dressing appropriately and it also meant additional work in providing separate toilet and washing facilities and male & female tents, well separated for not only the scouts but leaders as well even though two of the leaders were husband & wife. It was soon after this that I retired as a leader but my son is now an explore scout(aged group 15 upwards) and they are a unit of male & female and all activities are run as mixed events. I suppose they are used to it as the majority of schools are co-ed where as I went to an all boys secondary school.
I am pleased to say that my old scout group is still thriving.

Josh,
When you were combined with the girls at camp did they or the female leaders see you in underpants during activities?

I was in the Scouts between age 11 and 13 and during Summer camps we spent much of our time in just underpants. We also had open bathing and shower areas, but since we were all boys it was no big deal and just fun.
On some camp sites where there was a stream running nearby we even swam naked. I don't know what it would have been like if we were combined with girl guides at camp, although in Cub Scouts for boys under 11 it was common to have some female leaders.
But this was way back in the 60s when Boy Scouts were separate from Girl Guides for most activities. I don't know if it is common today to have boys and girls combined in Scout camps.

Hermann
I went to an all boys school from the age of 11 to 16. Furthermore, I was in the Scouts when it was an all male environment. Subsequently I became a leader and we had a camp every summer for 2 weeks. The complications arose when it was decided that in the interest of equality girls could become scouts rather than having to be Girl Guides. This of course caused logistical problems.
For a start a female leader had to be recruited and the simple things like your reference to having to train in briefs if kit was forgotten(which does not matter in an all male group) I had to remind the lads that any time they left their tent(especially in the morning when they need to rush to the toilet to make sure they were dressed. In the past that did not matter, and I agree sometimes the lads just wanted some tine on their own. This is true of today, whereas joint activities are good, sometimes, girls want to be alone and do "their stuff" and likewise men want their own time together.
Finally in this equality day and age I think both male & female teenagers need some almost military discipline.