Burnley Grammar School

While I agree with Roy about the kind of punishments that have been described, I can't see why they are different from other practices that were clearly quite common years ago. In other words, why would it be acceptable to cane a boy on his bare backside but not to hit his bare back or front torso? Surely both are painful and humiliating forms of corporal punishment that nobody should have to endure, certainly not children or teenagers. I'm glad to say when I did PE in the 80s none of those punishments were deemed acceptable - we got extra press ups, laps of the pitch or something like that.

Comments by John Lavender on 22nd May 2013   

@ John : Our PE Teacher didn't employ that Punishment method, but for a Minor offence it was 20 press-ups or squat-thrusts.
Greater mismeandours earned a 'scragging' by the rest of the lads - around 20 - in the class. lasted about 5 minutes , enough to make you think twice before repeating the Transgression. We were in plain-white Tees for PE although we did do 'Skins vs. Vests' for Killerball games. As I pointed out previously quite a while ago, some of us wanted to be barechested all the time and took any opportunity to do the lesson stripped to the waist.

We had 'Running the Gauntlet' as well as a slow-change Punishment. Some of us slow-changed deliberately so we could do it! Occasionally the Runner would stop dead and land a Punch on one of the other lads doing the Back-slapping. A brawl would sometimes break out and that was always good fun! You could always get the score evened up if you were on the Opposing Team in the Killerball game at the end of the lesson. The PE Master telling one team to get into Skins was always the sign that we were going to play it.Used to look forward to that!

If teachers today used any of the methods described by Adam and others it would quite rightly be described as child abuse and dealt with accordingly.

I thought only our PE teacher was the only one to use such painful punishment methods. I can confirm it hurt like hell, when he whipped your back with his cord, and yes, it happened that the cord swung around your body to hit your chest or tummy. As we were always barechested for PE, indoors and outdoors and he also had a unique way of making sure we changed in the least amount of time. The two last boys out of the changing room had to run the gauntlet at the entrance of the gym hall, where the other boys would wait in two lines and hit the boys' bare backs as they passed by. I can assure you, boys at my school got changed within a few seconds!

John's comment sent a shiver down my spine. My PE teacher also used the cord of his whistle in that way and, boy, did it sting! One of my worst memories is a PE detention when I was made to take off my vest and do various exercises, but if I failed to complete them correctly or within a tume limit, the whistle cord would come out. He must have had plenty of practice because he managed to aim the cord so that it wrapped around and landed on my chest or tummy! Not a nice man.
Even without that painful 'bonus', it was quite common to be bare-chested for PE punishments, sometimes outdoors as well as in the gym.

Really? Caned on their backs? What kind of offence merited that punishment? Seems extremly harsh too me. At my school in the 70ies we got caned on our backsides but our PE teacher sometimes whipped boys on their backs with the cord of his whistle. Very painful indeed, but we never got the cane on our backs!!

I was a day boy at a state secondary school in the sixties and on our first day there it was made clear that you did PE etc stripped to the waist both in the gym and outdoors whatever the weather.
It was no use complaining.Those who did had to do punishment press-ups outdoors for up to an hour still bare-chested.
For the very few who still objected it was not unknown to receive corporal punishment-usually the cane on the bare backside but sometimes a boy would be caned on his bare back.

Yes, the picture brings back memories. I was a boarder at a prep school. We always did pe in just white cotton shorts and plimsolls. If it was sunny, we would go outside and do our lesson on the grass or in the playground. If we went to the tennis courts, we had to walk along the road all stripped to the waist. No one ever gave it a second thought.
For swimming, we had to do the lesson naked. Again, all normal and everyone got on with it. It was a lot easier as you just had to remember your towell.
As a boarded, even at weekends when we went swimming, most boys were naked although we could wear trunks. The ones who wore trunks were generally the weedy one. How things have changed.

Comments by david pattison on 16th May 2013   

I went to BGS from 1959 to 1964.
My memories of Mr Parry are of him taking Detention Class in the afternoon.....and doing Gym work as part of detention :-)

When I went to secondary school we were supposed to wear a vest for PE but there was one lad (who had come from a different junior school) who never wore a vest for PE.In fact he never wore one at all.
Gradually more and more of us followed his example and very soon we were all stripped to the waist.

We used to do PE stripped to the waist whatver the conditions and I think that the girls used to look forward to seeing hunky young lads stripped to the waist!!!!
Also when we did cross-country many of the locals also used to look forward to seeing us all bare-chested and sweaty!!

I too well remember doing PE outside stripped to the waist and barefoot with snow on the ground.
It certainly toughened us up and we certainly used to go about bare-chested whenever we could.

My PE teacher was a keen disciplinarian. Our uniform (or lack of) consisted of brief shorts (no underwear), vest and plimsolls or footie boots. Vests often discarded as a punitive measure or to distinguish teams (shirts vs. skins).

Very similar to my school, also during the 1970s but in southern England. We often did shirts vs skins, but I also remember having to remove my vest as a punishment. On one occasion I got into trouble for cutting corners on laps of the playing field and was made to do them again, this time in just shorts and bare chest. For PE detentions we were always in 'skins', which could be in the gym or outdoors. I never really thought about it at the time but I suppose the idea was to make you feel small and less sure of yourself.

Comments by John Lavender on 25th April 2013    

There is also a UK photo on this URL, Lads Shirtless.

Great scene.It brings back memories.Especially of outisde lessons in cold weather clad only in a vest.Are there any other european old movies which have a PE class scene?

This is a very interesting forum which provokes many memories, some good, some bad. However my overriding memory of P E 1970s Northern England is the extreme cold. My PE teacher was a keen disciplinarian. Our uniform (or lack of) consisted of brief shorts (no underwear), vest and plimsolls or footie boots. Vests often discarded as a punitive measure or to distinguish teams (shirts vs. skins).
I recently watched a movie which also brought me back to my teens.
A scene in the film shows lads in a traditional vest and shorts uniform. The thinly clads boys are racing in a snowy park while their teacher and spectators are wrapped up in heavy coats, much like my own PE teacher wore.
Deep End was filmed in 1970 and stars John Moulder-Brown and Jane Asher.
It gave me a chill recalling those harsh winter PE sessions with snow on the ground, biting northern winds and, worst of all, sleet or driving hail stones. We suffered it all but were stronger for it, compared to todays youth who live in over insulated homes and are so susceptible to viruses and colds .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN2kFPVu_A4

viewpoint James! From what you say I'm assuming the boys always went bare chested for PE (as well as detention). Do you think that made you more keen to work hard in PE and develop a good body, knowing the girls would be watching and commenting on it? And did most of the boys in your class feel the same? We sometimes did PE bare chested (vests versus skins) but never in front of the girls and that was only up to the age of 16.


Hi Darren, The boys did indeed go bare chested for all PE/Games lessons (and Gym detentions)and I think it did give a certain motivation for boys to put the extra effort in. It was amusing that girls from all different year groups looked forward to seeing us exercise especially on the colder days. The detentions were the worst as it was just you and the teacher so it made more difficult not to put the required effort in.

Interesting viewpoint James! From what you say I'm assuming the boys always went bare chested for PE (as well as detention). Do you think that made you more keen to work hard in PE and develop a good body, knowing the girls would be watching and commenting on it? And did most of the boys in your class feel the same? We sometimes did PE bare chested (vests versus skins) but never in front of the girls and that was only up to the age of 16.

Darren, the girls used to see us barechested indoors and outside through until I left at 18 and it made no difference even when doing co-ed classes. It was always good natured banter with them remarking on how we looked, discussing it in the classrooms and us wanting to impress them at the slightest opportunity. One of those girls, who later became my wife, still reminds me about a 2hr detention I was given by the PE teacher in the gym and watching a 16 year old me dripping with sweat as the session dragged on.

Interesting how the film focuses totally on the boys even though it's a co-ed class, the girls seem very much in the background. Have to feel sorry for poor Nick, he gets criticised for his lack of ability even though it's the other boy (with the strapping on his leg) who stumbles during the routine! The boys look about 13 or so, I can't help wondering how they felt about being bare chested in front of the girls. Not sure I'd have been comfortable with it at that age (at my school PE classes were single sex).

An interesting piece of film - does anyone know the date? It refers to Key Stage Three which would be late 80s/ early 90s/

The commentary sounds a bit dated but as an example of gym in the UK the 80s its pretty good.

Here's a fairly recently gymnastics class which features the boys shirtless & in shorts while the girls don black leotards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_gb0CUzwX0

Shirtlessness is still de rigueur in several armies around the world.
I have found some pictures of Russian soldiers exercising in what they call uniform no 2.
And judging by the leafless trees in the background you can certainly tell that not all of these pictures were taken on a warm summer's day !

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62386222@N06/8615811441/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62386222@N06/8616923656/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62386222@N06/8616930006/in/photostream/

Hi Paul!

Where is this photo from?Is this was taken from a school's website?
Yes it seems there are still some schools where shirtless PE kit is a rule.

Compulsory shirtless PE seems still to required in some countries today. This photo apparently is of a Polish school:
http://tinyurl.com/c7ck22x

In reply to Tim,I had to change into shorts when I returned home from school,as the wearing of short trousers was not allowed at school.Under my parent's insistence and to keep me dressed identicaly as my younger stepbrother,I had to wear shorts for evenings,weekends and holidays.I prefered wearing long trousers,but as this ritual continued I became quite blase about wearing shorts and became indignant about the derogatory comments.

My father used to keep my and my four younger brothers shirtless nearly all the time.
As soon as we got home from school we had to strip to the waist and remain shirtless for the rest of the day.
We soon got used to it and by summer time we were all quite sun tanned.

have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yQth3QEXtA

Comments by John Lavender on 18th March 2013   

@ Dave: Yes, good video.
I do think PE should again be mono-gendered and should much more concentrate on Hard physical work in class (at least 5 1-hour sessions per week)with special emphasis on combatting over-weightness and muscle and general physical developement. PE Teachers should also be gender-specific.
Boys PE should concentrate much more on the forthcoming roles in life of the Boys, in both Sport and Personal Lives.
This might mean some howls of anguish from the "New Breed" of PE Teachers but I think after a few years result in a much better physical fitness profile of the population.

If you watch this video you can see (from 5:15) that all the boys are barechested for massed P.T. None of them seems uncomfortable and unhappy because of the kit they have to wear even in mixed exercises.

http://yorkshirefilmarchive.com/film/childrens-day-leeds

I attended a state Grammar School in the early sixties and altough the official PE uniform did specify a singlet many boys didn't wear them and always did PE stripped to the waist.
More and more of us followed suit and eventually we were all bare-chested in the gym.
Again a few lads went topless outdoors for cross-country and again more and more lads bared their chests and eventually we were all stripped to the waist.
Some were even barefoot both in and out of doors.

Ambrose wrote;
When I was a pupil I thought the dress code for PE was at the whim of the teacher. We were never allowed underwear and were often without shirts; communal showers were compulsory.

Like Ambrose I experienced similar 'whims'.
I entered Boarding School in 1970, aged 15, when my parents moved abroad due to my Father's work as an engineer.
The regime there was brutal.
I soon discovered that some of the items listed on the Games Kit, which my parents purchased, were completely surplus to requirements.
Both games masters were sadists.
Every day of the school year began with a two mile run around the grounds and through the local village. This was year round in just a thin pair of shorts and trainers.
We were predominately shirtless for games including table tennis and cricket. Bare soles and chests in gym, except in teams when it was bibs vs skins. Only one set of bibs were ever issued, despite a huge supply in various colors.
Bare soles and chests outdoors were our games masters whims.
In the evenings other whims included open ended circuit training sessions with no set finishing time.

Some boys hated it and others tried to impress their hardness.

Archie let me reply to your latest questions.

In the normal course of events I didn't catch that many boys up to things they shouldn't have been around the school. Those who I did catch, usually the smokers who for some reason thought a corner outside the gym was a good place to smoke were invited inside for the cane. Smoking got six on the bare bottom without exception.

In such circumstances a boy would be told to take off his blazer and drop his trousers and underpants before bending over a hurdle we kept there for just that purpose.

Also, close to the sports complex were the music rooms. The head of music was a delightful lady in her late fifties and coming up to retirement. As a colleague she was great fun and often the life and soul of a party.

As a teacher, she was mercilessly baited by the boys and unfortunately she used to rise to it. Her lessons often used to descend into chaos and she could not regain control. It was a pity because she really knew her stuff, she taught me to play the piano which was something I had always wanted to do and she was a superb teacher.

Needless to say, I and my colleagues used to pass by the music room and there was a large glass panel in the door which was at the back of the room and we could observe the class without being seen.

With her tacit agreement we would often pause for long enough to determine who the ringleaders were in any particular class and then quietly enter the room and summon them out for a 'discussion'. That usually had the effect of sobering up the whole class in an instant.

The boy or boys summoned for a discussion made their way to the changing room where they were invited to explain their behaviour, I never yet heard a satisfactory explanation and so delivered a just punishment. A first offender got four, a second offender six and a repeat offender eight, always with the cane.

The boy or boys would then be escorted back to the music class, usually with tears in their eyes and told to take a seat at the front where everyone could see them. Usually I delivered a warning that I was close by and that there was plenty more of the same available for anyone who wanted it as an alternative to working hard for the rest of the lesson.

I also used to deliver the odd warning in my classes that any boy I caught misbehaving in music classes was guaranteed a sore bottom.

It's unfortunate that my original observations on how PE training and supervision has changed seem to have deteriorated into a prurient discussion on caning naked bottoms.
George's original response confirms that we were trained to be naked around boys; in my case in an inner city secondary modern/comprehensive school rather than a single sex private school. The rational behind our training was that we would not appear aloof to the pupils, and that nudity was not something to be shy about. Showering naked together was for no other purpose than to encourage cleanliness and confidence in pupils and to dispel any sense of unnecessary modesty; nobody saw any ulterior motives, and of course any touching was strictly discouraged.
It was not until the 80's that the situation changed, for whatever reason, and nowadays a teacher appearing naked in front of pupils is likely to lose his job for supposed indecency. How have standards deteriorated to this neurotic state? Are their now more teachers with an unhealthy interest in their pupil's bodies?

What are the views of older or retired teachers, or of pupils who saw their teachers naked?

Incidentally, at my school only the Head was allowed to cane;and although we used the slipper, no pupil was ever punished on a bare backside!

I'm glad I didn't go to George's school; swimming naked, pe stripped to the waist, no underpants - none of that would have bothered me, but that 20 - 25% of boys at any time bore the marks of caning suggests to me that the custom was widely practiced. I wonder if there was any standardisation to caning or whether the number of strokes was on the whim of the master administering the punishment. Wearing underpants in pe, for instance, would hardly be the most serious "crime" that a boy could commit yet did it make any difference in relation to other contraventions of school rules?

When we played football etc.stripped to the waist the teams were identified by wearing different coloured shorts.

George - thanks for your latest reply. Slightly off topic, but I was wondering how you dealt with lads who were being caned or slippered but who were not already in PE kit - perhaps, if you caught a boy doing something and made him report for punishment at a particular time.

Presumably you still caned/slippered their bare backsides? Did they keep the rest of their uniforms on with just their trousers and pants round their ankles, or did they have to strip entirely? Did they just bend over and touch their toes or did you have them bend over something?

Did you often slipper or cane other than during a PE lesson?

Archie, no lad was ever slippered or caned in the pool area, it only ever happened in our office or the changing room. Any lad leaving the pool area, if he was not going straight for a shower put his shorts on even if it was only to drop them a few minutes later for the slipper or cane.

Lads often had stripes from the cane across their bottoms when swimming but we saw them when lads were in the showers too. In the earlier years, I suppose it was common to see 20-25% of bottoms sporting marks of the cane, in later years it was much less common and of course eventually it would have died out.

In 1975 the school left local authority control like many others when faced with the comprehensive choice and we were lucky enough to be in a place that had sufficient demand for private education, so the cane remained for quite a few more years than it might have done.

The headmaster however foresaw a day when it would be banned and he encouraged a reduction in its use so that withdrawal would not cause a problem which in the end it didn't. I think in the last year it was legal, it was used twice on senior boys who had bullied junior boys.

The following year two senior boys who had bullied a junior boy were expelled on the spot and that's what happened to boys who ultimately would have been caned and as we were out of local authority control, there was nothing to stop it.

Personally, I still think the cane was the better solution as I doubt most school boys who overstep the mark appreciate fully what they are doing and how much expulsion will impact on their education and therefore life opportunities in a way that a sore bottom for a few days never could although I recognise it will never be reintroduced.

John:
I looked at your link and searched a bit online and think that the garment you mention is similar to the slips our masters (and my father) wore, though theirs were the very skimpiest kind. Most of the pictures online have fairly full fronts to the garments, and a 3/4 back whereas our PE teachers had much smaller front areas of cloth whilst their buttocks were totally bare save for a very tiny triangle of cloth at the top of their arse cracks. The strings were very narrow - say 1cm - but did tie at the sides.

George - again, really interesting to hear your answer. Did you ever slipper or cane lads when they were naked in the pool area? Presumably it was a usual enough sight to see lads with cane lines on their backsides during swimming classes?

We had the no underwear rule at school as well, though I have to admit that I (like many of my classmates) flouted it as we became older. We didn't always get away with it and the belt then made an appearance, even in 5th and 6th forms!

Comments by John Lavender on 27th February 2013    

Hi Archie, I think you are referring in your post a few days ago to an Item of swimwear originating in Germany, named in that language as 'Dreieckbadenhose', translating Literally as 'Triangular bathing wear'
Here - the URL shown - is a photo. The Garment has ties around each hip.
If you want to correspond further off-thread, just email me.
John

Archie, I was twenty one when I started teaching.

Usually for a swimming class we were either in the water or not, it wasn't usual to get in the water in mid class but except as below, I took my shorts off at the pool side if I did. Whether you were in or not depended on the level of the class, if they were beginners it was more common to be with them but less so once they were swimming well. You might get in to demonstrate a new stroke with the boys on the poolside but then get out to observe them, you can't actually see much when you're in the water with them.

If I jumped in spontaneously usually because a boy was in difficulty I didn't stop to take my shorts off.

As to what I wore under my shorts, certainly never underpants and nor did any other master I taught with which I know because we shared an office. I had a jockstrap for playing rugby as a team member but having worn it a few times I found I preferred not to and no one else on the team wore one or for that matter wore underpants. How things have changed now where you see a second pair of shorts appearing down the legs of some rugby players, presumably when you don't see anything they are going commando, much more healthy.

George - that's really interesting. So when you were at the side of the pool you had your rugby shorts on and you took them off to jump in? What did you wear under them?

How old were you when you were teaching like this?
Archie

Archie, in the main, we didn't go in the water with boys during swimming lessons though when we did, we were naked. The pool was available to masters and boys during lunchtimes and everyone swam naked during those times. Masters from other schools varied a bit, I can remember one or two who used to come with trunks under their shorts but most were naked in the water.

We also usually taught with bare chests, my usual kit was a pair of black rugby shorts and a pair of trainers. It was a good incentive to stay in shape! I kept a rugby shirt handy for leaving the sports area of the school but didn't see the need to wear it in the gym or out on the fields unless I was a referee or similar.

Eastender, your account typifies all that is wrong with boys today. I can't imagine the poor lad was warm in all his gear, much healthier had he been in shirt and shorts.

Cold weather was often an excuse for wearing underpants when lads were caught. They never actually thought that even it it was cold they would still sweat in the usual places while running, one layer of clothing might dry on a cold day, two would have no chance so, had it been permitted, they would have been wearing cold, damp underpants that would get colder in the wind whereas without them, the sweat would dry off immediately. Similarly if they rolled on wet ground, one layer of kit would dry in a few minutes, two would not dry at all. I suppose these days they don't roll on wet ground in case they catch cold or get dirty.

Of course, there was always hightened vigilance for underpants on cold days and any boy caught failing to take them off left the changing room with a warmer bottom than he might have wished for but he certainly could no longer complain of cold!

I found George's post really interesting, particularly the fact that he (as a PE teacher) was naked in the pool along with the boys. George - did that apply to all the teachers, whatever their age, and also to the ones from the other schools?

Whilst we swam naked, our teachers didn't - the head PE master who was a bit Captain Mainwaring in apperance always wore his tracksuit (he didn't get in the water) but he made the younger PE masters who must have been in their mid 20s strip down and wear a sort of swimming slip.

The best way to describe what they wore is that it was like a triangle of dark cloth to cover their privates with strings round the side and back - a sort of cloth gstring I suppose. They must have been leftover from rationing or something! My father actually wore similar when he used to take me to private swimming baths as well.

I don't suppose the teachers could complain as at least they were covered unlike us boys.

I don't recall our teachers ever showering with us though.

I have written previous comments about how inhibited boys have become these day and how they have become softies. Today I have senn a boy who had clearly just finished a football match. He was with his dad and the boy I should think was about 8 or 9yrs of age. Apart from his football shirt he was wearing quite thick padded shorts & showing underneath were what appeared to be a further pair and football socks looking like tights. The only part of his body showing was his knees,just. Perhaps he was a goalie & nowadays they seem to be proteced from head to toe. How many times were we hit with a real leather football which stung when the weather was cold & frosty. When will the youth of today start to toughen up again?

Having read the previous 2 contributors comments we certainly in my day have nor worries about changing in one room. Most os us went to Scout camp & there you had to dress & undress & all sleep together in a tent with no room for privacy.

What an amazing picture and a collection of comments. If I may, I will add my own perspective which is that of a PE teacher and I don't think I've seen another similar contribution.

I qualified in 1966 so a little after this picture was taken but things hadn't really changed. The picture may have been of my own schooldays just as easily and it is a good example of how PE was taught for may years afterwards.

I joined the staff of a boys grammar school on qualifying and taught there for many years. There were about 800 boys on the roll and I was the junior PE master though my colleague was only a few years older than me. Other masters coached various teams according to their skills and interests. The school had only been open about five years.

We had an excellent gym which was beautifully equipped with all the kit you see in the picture and far more besides. It was carefully looked after and the gym was so big you could divide it in to two so that we could have held two separate classes had we wished. In practice that rarely happened as we generally planned outdoor and indoor lessons to avoid teaching two classes in the gym together but on the occasions we did when the weather was very bad (I'm not talking about a bit of snow or rain here) we generally took both classes in the gym for circuit training.

Team games played were rugby, cricket, basket ball and volley ball and we competed at all levels in these along with swimming. The school had its own pool which was a real luxury though it was used by other schools too so we didn't have unlimited access to it. The other thing we didn't have either compared to the better schools today was any highly specialist skill in individual sports. I knew more about rugby than most and was therefore the expert, I had played at county level in the first XV but no more. As such, in many things we were relative amateurs compared to today.

Training had covered many things about all sports, a lot about football which was great if you taught in a school that played football! We also covered a lot about muscles, anatomy and building strength.There was quite a bit of emphasis too on safety and discipline.

Safety was of paramount importance. We had never heard of risk assessments but of course we did go through the process without having to do all the paperwork we do now. No one expected a fat boy (yes, we called them that then) to shin up a rope and hold position in the same way as a muscular boy without an ounce of fat. We tried to design exercises that challenged the whole class and I think in the main we did it.

Learning to play as a team was important too from all points of view and we sorted out quickly who were the good team players and who were not. Competition was also important, we played sport to win and I think that was healthy and good. I really dislike the current culture of everyone wins a prize, it devalues achievement.

So, what of discipline as it's touched on so often. Yes, I had a very large plimsoll and a cane, in fact in the office I and my colleague shared, we had several of each. PE can be a dangerous subject, any boy endangering himself or others by mischief, misuse of equipment or horseplay could expect a very sore bottom for his trouble. The first time it would be the slipper and if he repeated his stupidity it was the cane. Almost always they were given in the office but very occasionally when an example needed to be made, in the changing room. Whether it was in the office or the changing room, it was always on the bare bottom which was permitted in the rules for use by any master but of course few actually did. Yes boys cried and hated it, they weren't meant to like it and standards certainly slipped when it was withdrawn. There were usually quite a few sore bottoms in any class at the start of the year but after the first half term when the boundaries were established, it was rare to cane a boy though there were probably still two or three slipperings a week. Of course we also saw very clearly when a boy had been caned as week by week they took off their underpants and I would say we whacked less than many masters.

PE kit was in keeping with the times. For rugby there was a shirt, shorts, socks and boots, for cricket usual whites and for anything else there was a pair of white shorts and plimsolls or later trainers. Bare chests were the norm. For swimming there were no trunks unless it was a competition in which case, we had a box full for the boys to use. This certainly wasn't only our school, when boys from other schools used the pool, they didn't have trunks either. All this was quite normal until the early eighties.

Underpants were certainly not worn either. Any boy caught wearing them was in line for the slipper. The reasoning behind this was about hygiene. It had applied when I was at school, in training hygiene was emphasised alongside two other things the first of which was I suppose a crude attempt to educate boys about their bodies growing and changing and if they saw other boys developing hair, having their testicles drop and their penis grow then they wouldn't be alarmed if it happened to them and the second was that there really was an expectation that there would be a third world war and again, all men would be called to arms. In that case there would be no room for shyness so it was better that boys got over that now. This was also the thinking behind communal showers which did no one any harm.

We also used to be encouraged to shower with the boys and it was said it was a way of keeping order. As teachers, we had no private shower facilities so we did use the showers with the boys at times though it was more normal to shower with the older boys than the eleven year olds. Male staff who coached did the same thing and no member of staff wore trunks in the pool either.

Boys might have been uncomfortable at the start having to take off their underpants and shower in a communal shower and swim naked but I don't remember any boy being uncomfortable after after the first three or four weeks.

I stopped teaching PE in the late 80s - it's a younger man's subject and moved into school management as it became known. I missed it, I love watching the boys achieve more than they ever thought they could, it was great to see the smile and sense of achievment on a boy's face when he won, beat a record or just did something better than he ever imagined he could.

When I was a pupil I thought the dress code for PE was at the whim of the teacher. We were never allowed underwear and were often without shirts; communal showers were compulsory.
When I went to teacher training college in the swinging sixties we were given instruction which included showering with pupils as the best way of supervision. I was required to help out with PE in my secondary modern training practice schools, even though this was not my specialist subject. In all four schools the younger boys wore only shorts for gym, older boys sometimes wore pumps; and swimming trunks under their shorts, never pants. Outdoors it was usual to wear a shirt as well, but in all cases showers were compulsory and taken naked. At the end of the morning or afternoon it was not unusual for the teachers to join the boys naked in the showers.
When I started my first job I taught a few periods of PE and some games after school. I was told that the county advisor had instructed that all normal clothes be removed before PE kit was worn, and boys should shower whenever possible: so we were under orders. It was common for the 5 or 6 men teaching sport at various times to shower naked with the boys; and this practice continued throughout most of the 70's. It was not seen as inappropriate, and nobody was unhappy with the situation at the time.
It would be interesting to know who discouraged the practice and why,since thousands of teachers must have been trained to supervise classes this way. Parents are now neurotic about others seeing their child naked and demand privacy when changing. Pupils even wear swimming trunks in the showers! Staff now feel wary about being in the same room when pupils are undressing, although this is the best way of preventing bullying or horseplay which parents have complained about.
What was so wrong with the old ways?

Comments by John Lavender on 17th February 2013   

The 'Sticking Vests' syndrome is arguably THE most potent reason for doing gym / running without a top. Several people I know , as well as myself, have done half-marathons and shorter road-races as such, it is even more of an option if you are someone who sweats quite readily.
Doing Gym stripped to the waist is healthier than being wrapped in 2 or more layers, does not infringe any so-called 'Human Rights' and if truth be known, and pupils were asked, would probably be Preferred by Boys in Senior School. Does any school actually ask them what they Prefer, seeing as we are supposed to be in a Democratic Society?

I have contributed in the past & agree with many writers that I do not think many of us had inhibitions about the minimal clothing for PE. I was at Secondary school 1961 to 66 & some of our teachers had been in the war or National Service & they continued with the discipline & machoism they had experienced & that every expected in those days. Admittedly we never were running around with no clothes & trunks were worn for swimming but usally brief & showed your bump but we did have communal showers after PE where you would stand around chatting to each other whilst in the buff with out a thought until the teacher came in and hurried you up.
Without wishing to digress too much I think that having to have community showers & seeing each other naked prepared people for the time when they left school.I went to work in an office but some of my friends who I met up with had jobs in factories. I know of one lad who told me that from day one all the men changed into overalls in a communal room & he had no problems with that. However, a few weeks into his appretinceship,came the "Initiation" when at the end of the day he was taken by the older men and he ended up being stripped & losing some hair(not from his head) As he said at the time at least our schoolday experiences of changing rooms helped him through that event.

Can you imagine anything like that happening at work today?

Stephen, like you and James, we also played Pirates - usually as an end-of-term treat, but it seems the rules we used were slightly different. We were a class of 30 and the game started with three boys, chosen by the teacher, as 'IT' or the pirates, and as the rest of us were tagged, we were then 'out'. This went on until there were only three left uncaught who were the winners, and became the pirates for the next game. Our indoor kit consisted of white shorts and t-shirt but whether the shirt was worn or not depended on the activity - in this case, the pirates were shirtless so they could easily be seen.

Stephen,we also played Pirates,but wore our shorts as the gynnasium was on the ground floor and and we could easily been overlooked.However,the swimming pool was built on the first floor and the changing rooms and shower area was next to the pool.We were told it was unnecessary to wear trunks and we had to swim in the nude.I thought swimming was great fun,I was totally unabashed and fount it invigorating.
James

Comments by Stephen on 11th February 2013   

Dear John
The game of pirates was a game of tag in which one lad was ‘IT’ and had to touch another lad then he was ‘IT’ and the first one retired to sit on the benches and this continued until the last lad how had not been caught . The wall bars, ropes and every other piece of gym equipment was set out in the gym, your feet was not allowed to touch the floor. The game was a lot more fun than it sounds. I suppose it sticks in my mind more because I was one of the lads who did it in the nude which was quite liberating in a strange way
Stephen

Comments by John Lavender on 8th February 2013   

Steven: What was the game 'Pirates'? Explain the way it was played please. Did you need two teams dressed differently to differentiate?
Did you play Killerball as well?

Stephen,our school like yours had a strict uniform policy where boys had to wear short trousers and minimun clothing for games.A shorts only rule was enforced by liberal use of the cane and regular inspections were carried out.Boys caught wearing underwear were given six strokes of the cane.

Comments by Steven on 7th February 2013   

When I was eleven and started at my new school the first time we had a PT lesson we were told by the games master in no uncertain terms that on no account were we allowed to wear vests or underpants to any PT lessons, He told the class that he would make random checks to see if we were sticking to the school rules, If anyone transgressed the boy concerned would be punished in front of the class this would be done across the boys bare backside either with a large flexible plimsoll or his favourite cane.
He then instructed ever one to strip naked the he showed the class of boys the shower room and told the class that everyone would have a shower after any physical activity. Then he told the class to put on their white gym shorts and nothing else, all inside lessons were done shirtless and shoeless. Outside lessons we wore rugby shorts, hose, rugby jersey and boots.
The next time we had a lesson with him we were taken to the swimming pool and were told that we would not be allowed to wear swimming trunks.
One day the class was playing 5 A-side and one lad passed the ball to the other team, there was a lot of comments to which the lad concerned said “I cannot tell how’s how “to which the games master said “I can see for you that are having difficulties so to make it easier for you and your team I will let you take off your shorts so you can see how is on your team” there was a few comments from his other team members but he quickly restored order by threating to use Black Jack ( this was how he referred to his plimsoll)
At the start of the second year after the assembly we were given our new timetables for my class we had double games in the afternoon, only a few lads had brought their games kit with them, so we all went to the sports block, to find that the gym had been set out for pirates, he ushered the class into the changing room, the asked “ who has their the sports kit” Just a few hands went up, “right lads for this once you may strip off to your underpants for this lesson if you don’t wear underpants tough.” About five of my fellow classmates did not wear underpants ever. I was a bit shocked at first but stripped off and to my surprise a couple of my classmates who wore underpants joined us in the gym naked so eight lads did the lesson completely naked, most lads of my generation wore y-fronts but one lad wore mesh trunks that gaped open at the front as he was moving about and he looked more ashamed that the nudists.
The strange thing is that I don’t think that anyone thought that this was odd it was just what was done at the time.
Steven

Steve, I can't see the logic of that system. We also had shirts against skins basketball matches at school but if you were a skin you went bare to the waist at the start and stayed like that until the end of the game. I can't imagine it would have been much fun starting on the skins team and having to put a shirt on halfway through the game when you were already hot and sweaty.

For inter house basketball competitions we were split into teams of skins vs vests. At halftime we had to swap over so the skins team put their vests on while the other team removed theirs. For PE/Games the boys would all be made to go barechested and teams picked out by the colour of the shorts black or white) This didn't cause any problems.

Agree with Dave - bibs are the best system for telling teams apart in PE. When I started at school we had these coloured sashes that you wore over one shoulder and diagonally across your chest. They were a nightmare as they were often too loose and hampered your movement when you tried to throw a basketball, for instance. It wasn't long before the school replaced them with bibs, they fitted much better and were also easier to make out in a split second when you were trying to find a team mate.

If all the boys had to be barechested it is much more easier to have bibs over your shoulders and chests. The vests,rugby top,white shorts,black shorts...etc thing is too complicated for a team game I think.

Sam,it would have been much easier to identify opponents if we had been allowed to wear vests,but our kit was dictated by our teacher and as I mentioned the only item of clothing we were alllowed to wear was a brief pair of satin shorts.

Simon, what was it like playing in games where the teams were distinguished by different coloured shorts? Did it get confusing? I ask because we sometimes had a similar system at my school, usually when two classes had to share the gym because of bad weather. In the gym we wore white shorts, for outdoors we wore black shorts, so if there were two classes together that meant four teams - vests, football/rugby tops, skins and white shorts, skins and black shorts. But it was always a bit chaotic when the two skins teams were in direct opposition. Normally it was so straightforward if you were playing skins - you could see easily who was wearing his top and who wasn't when you needed to pass. But in these games, when every player was bare-chested, I remember looking around for someone to pass to and being bewildered by a sea of bare skin! By the time I'd checked to see whose shorts were white or black the ball had usually moved, or the pass had been made to the other team by mistake. Maybe it was just me but skins against skins didn't really seem to work!

We always did PE and cross-country stripped to the waist.Also we went barefoot in the gym.A few lads would do cross-country barefoot as well.

Welcome Lars! We also went without vests and also bare foot with no underwear,just brief satin shorts.For games our teams were identified by the colour of our shorts,blue,yellow,red and green.

Looking back, I never questioned whether underpants should be allowed for games and gym. I went to school in the late 1950's/early 60's, and wore cream woollen trunks which had no elastic. They were kept up by tapes which my braces hooked through, so once my trousers were off there was no way that my pants would stay up, so it never dawned that it was odd not to wear underpants for sport. From what I can remember, most of the boys in my class wore similar underwear, except for a few who had progressed to 'Y' fronts, and these were generally derided! How things change!

nice bodys....

Comments by Lars on 13th January 2013   

Hi, I am lars fom germany, 19 jears old, and I like verry much your comments to this picture. Unfotunatelly we had pe lessons not always shirtless. For some games with two teams, one team took off there shirts, so I could see the nice chests of my class mates!!!
Since I am bisexual, I like the nice bodys while they play games or do sports!!
I specially liked the comment, where somone wrote, that they wear only the shorts and nothing else!!

bye Lars

Kevin, I remember doing dancing at primary school when both boys ang girls were dressed in normal uniform. What it would have been like being with secondary school girls while I was bare chested, I can only try to imagine.

During dances like the waltz, the girls would presumably have had to put their hands on the boys' bare shoulders. What was the temperature like in the hall during these lessons? Were you covered in goose pimples?

Kevin:-Did you really have to do ballroom dancing while bare-chested?

Reading these accounts I now realise how lucky I was as a scoolboy. I went to a grammar school in the south in 1959 where there was a very relaxed attitude towards sporting dress, though not to uniform in general. For football I think we were told we ought to wear some form of support, and most of us wore swimming trunks under our shorts, but no-one ever checked. I don't remember any strict rules about dressing for gym or cross-country, we were just told to put on gym shorts and plimsolls. Some boys never wore a vest anyway and they would go bare-chested in the gym, but most of us who did wear vests kept them on for gym and for cross-country runs. The same applied to underpants. In all the six years I spent at the school I can't remember any time when anyone was even told off, let alone punished, for wearing underwear in the gym. Vests could not have been more visible. I wore old-fashioned baggy white trunks which had a habit of slipping down after a bit of vigorous gym exercise or cross-country running, and an inch or two of underpant-leg would very often show (for other boys wearing the same style of pants, too), so it must have been obvious that we had kept our underwear on. I can't see what the problem was! We sometimes did cross-country runs in cold weather and the gym was never well heated. You can call me a southern softie if you like, but I think I was fortunate to be in a school where this relaxed attitude was taken. With a variety of different styles of vest, and with our sagging underpants, we were not the height of sartorial elegance, but did it matter? At least we were comfortable.

The uniform the te picture was exacty the same for us in the early 50s. This was not a problem because we quickly got used to it. We had PE twice a week plus a games afternoon. Being a co-ed school the girls alternated with the boys for use of the gym, the other lesson taken outside, whatever the weather. When it was wet sometimes the female teacher would arrange for the girls to share the hall with the boys, so the lesson was spent learning ballroom dancing. This was the only time when some of us got embarrased about being topless. As 11 year old we weren't that keen on getting too close to girls, especially girls dressed in navy blue knickers and white aertext shirts. As we got older these shared lessons were often more enjoyable, with us boys jostling to be partnered with the more developped girls.

The comments from Ed are so accurate! Bare chests and icy cold communal showers were my experience too. Add in the slipper and the odd dose of the cane and it summed up PE sessions which in spite of those things were still great fun.

The general shyness of the current generation amuses me, do they think they have something different and need to hide it? I'm glad I grew up when I did and not in the current time.

"I suspect that Eastender is right about a possible rebellion if boys were required to go bare-chested today."

I think boys wouldn't really mind. They are shirtless for swimming lessons. What is the difference?
I think some parents and teachers are the ones who take it like a problem not the boys themselves.

Eastender,you raise interesting comparisons.
As a teenager at school,I received several detentions for having my shirt coming untucked. Like many of my mates,I started to tuck my shirttail into my underpants, and this cured the problem,although the elastic of my drawers was usually showing above my trousers. Surprisingly, my teachers never picked upon this,and I still use this method to keep my waist tidy. Braces were not allowed, nor were belts, so I guess we were the first saggers!

I suspect that Eastender is right about a possible rebellion if boys were required to go bare-chested today.
In my day you had no choice and wouldn't dare rebel.

To Robert the last messenger & all others.

It is extraordinary the 2 extremes we see today. As you say pop groups & others showing their braces. Then the opposite trousers slung so low they show more underwear than anything else. Free advertising for certain companies. On the other hand when old men used to tuck their shirt in their pants and the elastic showed over the top of the waistband,it was thought funny. Of course they did not show off "designer" labels

To return to the topic of PE, I expect that if a school tried to introduce shorts with no pants & no tops these days, there would be a rebellion. Do schools provide showers with individual cubicles these days?

Hi Eastender

You raised and reminded me of another interesting aspect of life in the 1960's. Like you I received a strong word for removing my blazer when I was wearing braces, although many of my mates did so as well. I was given the option of taking my braces off or putting my jacket back on. I had to suffer the heat of my blazer as my braces not only kept my trousers up, but also my underpants, as elastic then was of suspect quality! It did not strike me at the time that braces were considered as underwear, not to be seen, or I might have been more embarrassed. As it was, my dad and Granddad both wore braces, uncovered,and nobody batted an eyelid.

How different today,when I see many pop group members playing in their braces. It must have had an effect though,as I am now loathe to let anyone see my braces, although I am in my 50's,but my grandson has no such qualms.Lucky lad!

Hi Eastender

You raised and reminded me of another interesting aspect of life in the 1960's. Like you I received a strong word for removing my blazer when I was wearing braces, although many of my mates did so as well. I was given the option of taking my braces off or putting my jacket back on. I had to suffer the heat of my blazer as my braces not only kept my trousers up, but also my underpants, as elastic then was of suspect quality! It did not strike me at the time that braces were considered as underwear, not to be seen, or I might have been more embarrassed. As it was, my dad and Granddad both wore braces, uncovered,and nobody batted an eyelid.

How different today,when I see many pop group members playing in their braces. It must have had an effect though,as I am now loathe to let anyone see my braces, although I am in my 50's,but my grandson has no such qualms.Lucky lad!

I remember gym sessions like this and they were great fun, never mind bare chests and no underpants, we learned skills and gained strength from these sessions.

I don't really remember the gym being cold and if it was, we didn't stay cold for very long. The changing room was a different matter, the windows were always wide open no matter what the weather so it was like stripping off outside in winter. The showers were always cold too so freezing in the winter but they did no one any harm and any boy who was not properly under could be sure of a sore bottom and then sent back in. Communal showers were the norm too and no one seemed to question them or mind, we were there to get washed and when dirty and sweaty I was always glad of the shower.

Going to the gym these days makes me laugh, the showers are all in very private cubicles but of course you have to strip to go in and you come out naked too so what's the point of the cubicles?

Being stripped to the waist was nothing unusual for us as it marked out the teams in "skins versus shirts" games. The problem was more connected with the chilly temperatures usually encountered in the school gym.

Our (most unpleasant) PE teacher, who was warmly clad, used to tell us to run around to get warm, but this wasn't possible if we had to stand on one side waiting for our team's next turn.

If we dared to suggest we were cold, he called us softies, and compared us with previous years of classes which had been composed of much hardier pupils, who did not feel the cold as keenly as we did.

He might have had a point, because by that time (mid 1960s) a fair number of us lived in centrally heated homes. Living standards were improving, so it was all the more of a shock to encounter the icy, spartan conditions of the school gym.

I well remember the winter of 1962/63 when despite it being the coldest winter in living memory we still had to do PE stripped to the waist both in the gym and outdoors.
Personally being stripped to the waist didn't worry me at all but I know some lads didn't like having to go bare-chested.They were left in no doubt that like it or not you stripped to the waist and got on with it.

I went to a grammar school in the 1970’s.

The uniform/kit list sent out said something like, PE/cross county kit – white shorts, white vest & white plimsolls.

Naturally I assumed that I would be allowed to wear all of these items for PE, so I turned up at the first lesson with them, and started to undress. Soon the PE teacher came in and announced that we needs just shorts for his lesson, one boy asked did he have to wear a school vest or should he keep his ordinary vest on. He got his answer in no uncertain terms, everyone had to strip to the waist, plus bare feet, the rest of the kit was for cross country only.

Personally, I didn’t mind having no top on, but really hated having bare feet, especially as the gym floor was usually freezing, not that the gym itself was that warm. I’m sure that a few boys were unhappy with bare backs/chests, but only one lad was really upset, and I think he always dreaded PE because of the restricted kit.

The shorts only policy stayed with us for the rest of my time at the school, and like many things, we had no choice but to accept it. After a while it became normal, and it would have seemed strange to have worn plimsolls in the gym, or to not have been striped to the waist

I will never forget the first time I had to be bare chested for PE. I was 14 and up to then I'd always done PE in a vest and shorts, as did every boy in the class. At the start of the new school year in September we had a new teacher for PE but nobody thought anything of that, we just turned up and got changed into our usual kit. The teacher arrived and, after introducing himself, informed us that we were all incorrectly dressed for his gym lesson. From now on our kit was to be white shorts (and socks and trainers). There were a few puzzled looks and one boy actually asked 'what do we wear on top, sir?', to be told 'Nothing. No tops - take them off' and at that point the penny dropped. I remember my heart pounding with nervousness and hoping that I'd somehow misunderstood. But one by one boys began to strip off their vests and move out to the gym and I reluctantly realised I had to do the same. Some boys didn't seem that bothered, mainly the ones who were already displaying signs of defined pectorals and six-pack stomachs. Meanwhile I felt as if I was totally naked, standing in the gym with my chest bare - it was a new experience and one I wasn't comfortable with.
Like Chris, I tried crossing my arms so that they covered my nipples. That was fine while we were lined up in the gym but of course I couldn't run like that so eventually I had to give up and put my arms down. I just imagined that everyone else was looking at my chest, although I'm sure some of the other boys were just as nervous and uncomfortable as I was.
Later I learned from a friend in another class that they'd had PE in their usual kit; it was only my teacher who made boys strip to the waist. We were still allowed vests for outdoor PE, but never in the gym - that was how it stayed all year and it took a while before I got used to it.

I knew that I would have to be stripped to the waist for PEas soon as my parents received the uniform list for Grammar School(in 1959.)
On my first PE lesson all us boys just stripped to the waist and went into the gym without any problems.
Nobody tried to hide their nipples(or belly buttons) and within a few days we all accepted that we did PE bare-chested without any worries.

Hey everyone let's share the experience after finding out you have to be bare chested for P.E lessons in the 1st lesson. Was it terrifying? Was it embarrassing? Did you try your best to cover your nipples? (like I did) In the 1st lesson I tried my best to cover my nipples because I was embarrassed... Upon finding out, the demented P.E teacher forced me to lift my arms up and ordered one of my classmates to cover them for me! I felt soooo weird! The nxt lesson I never tried something like that again.

Sorry my typing went awry in my last comment. To make sense, he middle phrase should read:

(remember, these were youngsters) but boys always kept their shorts on and did not take part in pe in their pants.


The remainder of my comments are then as written

In response to comments by Nick. I was at a Junior Scholl up to 1961. Pe for boys was norn=mal grey shorts but we wore our vest. Girls did pe in their underwear. Very rarely during a hot summer boys might remove their vest & even sometimes the girls (remeber these were young sters) would be bare top but boys always kept it being unfair for the girls . Equality was not a concern. However, I do remember that one very hot summers day I took of my blazer. The headmistress was horrified because I was wearing Braces on my trousers. She made me put my jacket back on saying men/boys did not show their braces. But then as I have written above girls were in underwear for p.e. Definately a different era then. But who worried?

Max. Music and Movement was broadcast on the radio by the BBC schools service. Schools usually recorded it - the programme was played back to us in the school hall via a loadspeaker mounted in a huge wooden panel. We had Music and Movement in the junior years at primary school. The girls wore knickers an vests and the boy had to strip down to grey school shorts. I think we were all barefoot. I remember some of the boys asking if they could wear vests as the girls did - the response was that they could but the shorts would have to come off so they were wearing just pants. What a strange and distant world! But one thing I will always be grateful for is that I was introdued to Prokofiev's Lieutenant Kije through M&M in Juniors 3 (quite elightened when you think about it!).

Responding to Tony's question:
"Archie
How does it feel to be shirtless? aren't you ashamed the fact that other boys will see your chest & nipples? How was your 1st lesson shirtless?"

Tony - it was more than 30 years ago that I was first shirtless in a PE class, so the memory of my feelings is a bit hazy. I don't understand why any of us should have been ashamed at being shirtless, given that most if not all of us would have been swimming at some point in our lives prior to the age of 9 when we started at the school! I really don't see the fuss with lads having to strip to the waist.

We only wore minimum clothing for all our physical activities,which were often shared with the girls.We only wore a vest for cross country runs,just brief,satin shorts were considered adequate.

Nick, your memory's clearly better than mine! You're right, now I think about it the class was called Music and Movement. Did you have the same thing at your school and was it also boys and girls in the class together?

Archie
How does it feel to be shirtless? aren't you ashamed the fact that other boys will see your chest & nipples? How was your 1st lesson shirtless?

They probably saw the dancing as a PE activity - no idea why else we'd have to get changed. No matter what we were doing in PE we had to get changed - even one day I remember having to strip down to shorts in order to sort through applications for tickets for sports day afternoon teas! If you were sitting out the class for any reason, such as illness, you stil had to get changed and sit at the side.

Bizarrely the only time I remember Having clothes on in the gym was one day in about fourth year when we were taught how to put someone in the recovery position and give mouth to mouth (on a dummy). We were told simply to take off our shoes and leave them outside the gym and just to go in in our stocking soles, which caused some anxiety amongst those of us who were wearing non- regulation white socks as they were so obvious to the PE teacher taking the class

For outside games - rugby, athletics, cricket etc - we wore the appropriate kit. For outside PE lessons we wore the same as indoor PE but were (again bizarrely) sometimes permitted to wear our school jumpers back to front. I never really understood that! That wasn't universal and as we were older we got to wear an athletics vest, though again if the weather was good we'd probably be made to go shirtless. The school was in a residential area (though wi playing fields out front) and we sometimes had to do road running around the nearby streets - sometimes but not always shirtless

Archie,thank you for the answering.

What did you wear for outdoor lessons?

"The girls for some reason did that wearing their gym tunics (basically skirts with a sort of dungaree style top half that they wore as school uniform on days they had gym), but we boys still had to strip down to our PE kit."

I've never heard about boys having to be shirtless for dancing practice.I think it was rare as well as swimming nude.

Max. Could it have been Music and Movement?

Answering Jon's questions:

"what was the boys' reaction for having to be shirtless for PE and naked for swimming lessons?"

I remember when we started at the school at the age of about 9 when we were told that we were to be shirtless and have no underwear on for PE - our parents presumably knew we were going to be shirtless as only shorts were specified on the kit list. It was a bit strange the first couple of times as we weren't used to being naked in front of each other, but as others have testified it is something you soon get used to. By the time we starting swimming lessons we were pretty comfortable stripping off for gym - and the showers afterwards - so the idea of being bare in front of each other wasn't quite so bad. It was still strange to start with, but I got used to it quite quickly and it stayed that way until I left school just before my 18th birthday.

"Was there any reason given for kit rules?"

Just the usual - hygiene, not wanting us to wear sweaty underpants for the rest of the day etc. For swimming in the buff there wasn't ever really an explanation - it's just how boys swam at school.

"Was there any PE lesson where you shared the hall with girls?"

This happened only rarely, such as when a teacher wasn't available to have two separate classes. The only organised joint sessions were when we were taught country dancing together in advance of school dances, which would be a couple of times a year. The girls for some reason did that wearing their gym tunics (basically skirts with a sort of dungaree style top half that they wore as school uniform on days they had gym), but we boys still had to strip down to our PE kit. Presumably this was due to the teachers not thinking too much about the inequality, but no reason was ever given.

Comments by Michael on 13th December 2012   

Archie
I was interested to read your comments.
We were not allowed pants either under our white PE shorts, or under rugby kit. Later we were encouraged to wear Speedo type swim trunks for comfort and those who were in the various teams usually did. Any boy who was obviously lacking support underwear was given some 'advice' by the sports teacher.
Later again some lads wore a jockstrap although they were a minority.
At that time I do not remember being stripped to the waist for any of our sports lessons but corporal punishment was meted out.
I've included my email if anyone wants to comment apart from on the forum.

Charles B's post reminded me of my own junior school days (late 70s/early 80s) when we did a class that was kind of a cross between gymnastics, dance and a bit of drama too - I forget exactly what it was called but it was girls and boys together. Girls could wear a leotard or t-shirt and shorts, for boys it was just shorts and bare chest. Everyone went barefoot and it was quite warm in the hall so that wasn't a problem. You could wear any colour shorts you liked so a lot of boys opted for red as they supported Liverpool. Those who wanted could also wear the same shorts for swimming, which was once a week at a local pool and also mixed. That was how it stayed until the age of 12 when we moved on to senior school and had more 'traditional' PE lessons, with a proper uniform and boys and girls separate.

Archie, what was the boys' reaction for having to be shirtless for PE and naked for swimming lessons?
Was there any reason given for kit rules?
Was there any PE lesson where you shared the hall with girls?

At my independent school in the early to mid 80s, we had gym wearing fairly skimpy black shorts, no underwear, bare chested and white plimsolls. Later on when we were seniors we were allowed to wear jockstraps or speedos under the shorts, but lads regularly got caught wearing underpants instead. We must have been one of the last UK schools that still had swimming in the buff as well. Corporal punishment was still used regularly in the form of the tawse and, in PE, the slipper (really a gymshoe).

I'd rather see boys in short shorts than girls in short shorts.By what is happening all around these days,whatever the girls are wearing would make whatever that's described here of what the boys have to wear as very mild and un-ludicrous.Mine is a hot country and boys are still wearing knee length shorts n berms despite the girls wearing short tight to a horrific extent,often even torn,now thats true ludicrosity.If u looked at K pop girls u'd see truly absurd shorts.And no,the cold weather doesnt stop them.My may be a hot country,but im aware in both asian n american countries during winter some girls still wear their absurd hotpants,abeit maybe with stockings,but thats still absurd,as compared to a sensible winter pants for winter.If u look at japanime,u'd see girls in so-called bloomers,which are no different from colored briefs,doing PE in them.In comparison,satin shorts would be very mundane n covered.
Hence i strongly encourage boys,who still have their tight short shorts with them,to continue wearing them,maybe not in winter,but definitely in summer.It's our right and freedom to stay cool,and we either use it or lose it.Don't let short shorts get labelled as feminine clothing,cos that would really be ludicrous.Many people are getting misled,especially ignoramuses in asia,who follow weird trends blindly without understanding how it came about,and forgetting a true image of a lady isnt in short shorts;short shorts are supposed to be masculine and should remain as such.

Boarding school on the freezing fylde coast was my fate in the seventies. Naked bathing would have meant instant death in our outside pool so even school normally sadistic games teachers didnt insist upon that!Once you joined Big School and puberty descended, litesome jockstraps were standard underwear for all games. We all bought our straps from the school shop so embarrasing shopping trip with your mother was avoided!

At the primary school I went to in the 70's (up to the age if 9), boys went bare top. It wasn't unusual for some of the girls to do the same. They weren't forced to, but weren't made to put their t-shirts back on either. From what I remember, it was always the same ones and all very innocent. Teachers were all female.

I too remember those shiny,satin shorts of the late seventies and early eighties.They came in various colours,but had a similar style with side slits as previously mentioned.These shorts were worn without underwear and they were ludicrously brief and tight fitting.They were worn for a variety of sports including gym,which on some occasions we shared with the girls.One cross country running event which was held in the cold winter of 1981,I was asked to hold the finishing tape for two hours wearing nothing more than shorts and vest.Teachers complained of the bitter cold,when wearing long coats,scarves,hats and gloves.

Following on from Andy's comments, we were supposed to wear tight white shorts (nylon) and they were really quite see through. however, we had some rebels who wore shorts with splits & I remember one lad who purposely made the splits larger & nothing was left to the imagination. Following suitable punishment he never wore them again. As Andy says in an all boys enviroment & our was a boys only school no one worried about what showed.

I still think that lads for all their so called machoism are very inhibited witnessed by trhe long shorts worn br proffesional footballers.

I remember those satin shorts - I had a pair of Adidas ones. We were not allowed to wear branded kit at school and so they were automatically banned. I remember one lad putting a pair on for gym one day and they really did leave nothing to the imagination not in may ways that it mattered in a class of boys.

He was ordered to remove them, the plimsol was applied to his bottom and he was ordered to find a pair of suitable shorts from the spares box. The comment from the PE teacher went something like 'just because you are a knob lad doesn't mean we want to see yours hanging down your shorts'.

Laughs all round, one red faced and red bottomed lad duly reprimanded!

We wore satin shorts for all sports,which were extremely flimsy with side slits.They offered very little protection from the cold weather and the brevity of these shorts left very little to the imagination.

As we approach the fiftieth anniversary of the severe winter of 1962/63 I well remember having to do outdoor PE stripped to the waist in the ice snow and freezing fog.It was no point in complaining.
I also remember a few months later being bare-chested for games in the middle of a mini heatwave.

Comments by Dave Stewart on 16th November 2012   

In reply to Nicks question i was 15 at the time

I remember in the cold winter of 1962/63 having to do outdoor PE and games while stripped to the waist.

Dave. How old were you when this happened?

I went to a school where for PE and Football it was white nylon shorts and either a white vest for PT or a blue shirt for football. All were very thin and offered little protection. At the time the norm was for no underwear under the shorts and most PE went topless also. At the begining of secondary school we had the no underwaer rule enforce by changing practices! After a couple of years though it seemed it was not being enforced. It was one frosty morning for football and I kept my white pants on under my shorts for football as it was so cold. Even though my pants were white you could see them through the material and the other lad was even less dicsrete as he wore blue pants.
Today was the wrong day for it and another lad and myself got picked out before we had even started to a game.
It turns out that our teacher had been turned down for promotion the day before and we two seemed to be an excuse.
The teacher made the rest of team huddle up against a wall whilst we both had to explain why were wearing pants.
I think my excuse of saying it was cold did not help either.
We were both ordered to take our footbal shirts off which we did and we stood there arms folded teeth chattering and the breath in front of mouths.
We got the lecture about hygenie etc as the rest of the team sniggered and shuffled around trying to get warm.
He then told us to take our shorts off and our pants and put our pants on our heads and run round the perimeter of the pitch and put our pants on the goal posts and then run back. The last one back would get an extra 5 strokes for being last.
We bent down to pick our shorts up and were told no we could have our shorts back when we had run round the pitch. The rest of the class were laughing there heads off by now.

we both set off bollock naked except for our pants on our heads and socks and football boots. As we got to the other end and dumped our pants at the goal posts we said we would run back and cross the line together so that neither of us could loose.
We ran back freezing cold by now and crossed the line with rest of the class chearing and laughing at us.

The teacher was unimpressed and told us to run round again as we had not put the effort in and one of us was not trying.
We both set off again my skin now blue and everything numb from the cold. I came across the line last.
We both were told we had detention after school for that me to get six wacks and the other lad just one.

we both got our shorts back on quickly and finished the lesson freezing and numb.
It was even worse when we walked back into the changing room and a bit of warmth as every bit of my skin felt it was stinging then.

After school we went for detention and our punishment which was just in our nylon shorts only.

we also had to spend the rest of the week after school each day cleaning the changing rooms in just our shorts.

i never wore pants again under my shorts.

Brings back memories. For a couple of years we had light nylon shorts with an inner cotton liner so no underwear was needed. The kit changed back to quite heavy cotton shorts with no lining, and a horrible seam stitching. Underwear was still prohibited.

Like many contributors, a white vest was listed for outdoor games but never worn. The reason proferred was previous pupils wearing their normal uniform vest, which was also white.

Strange how these were insisted upon in winter under layers of clothing!

The cold got right into ones bones. The master would be well wrapped up with overcoat and hat. Cold Showers also featured alot during my Grammar School Days.

What great memories this picture brings back. I loved school and I loved games and gym even more. Getting out of the classroom for a couple of hours twice a week was a treat that I and I think most boys looked forward to. One class was outside sport, rugby and cross country in the winter, softball, cricket and athletics in the summer. The other was inside and usually a hard gym session just like the one in the picture, rope climbing, the vaulting horse, circuits, press ups and lots more, all aimed at helping us to grow up healthy and strong.

Yes, the PE teachers were strict (but so were all teachers in those days), a size twelve plimsol dealt with any misbehavior very quickly and effectively. Plimsols and shorts were the kit - no underpants, for rugby you got a shirt, socks and boots too but still no underpants, we didn't have cricket whites. Showers were always freezing cold but good and refreshing after hard exercise and we left the sessions feeling fantastic, looking forward to the next one.

Great and very happy days.

Of course in the fifties and sixties and into the seventies my mother did not have an automatic washing machine. Clothes were worn for several days before changing and that included vests and underpants. In the current time it's unthinkable that underpants would not be changed at least once a day but just as there was then the cane in school, times have changed. Taking off underpants for PE when there was often copious sweating and dirt if playing rugby made perfect sense. The fact that it was, it would seem a universal practice demonstrates the sense of it.

All these years later, I still sweat in the gym and like most men, I dont' wear underpants now either. Old habits die hard!

I was at school in the late 60s / early 70s and like many others we had a no pants rule for games. Like Rob we were told it was for hygene reasons and a complete change of clothes was required. Younger boys wore nothing under the shorts but from about age 13 a Litesome jockstrap was worn.
I remember occasionally doing gym in skins at junior school, but at the senior school we had shirts in house colours so there was no need for skins to distinguish teams.
The reason for not wearing underwear for sport is just as valid today as it was then so I don't see why schools don't keep the same rules.

Of course in the immediate post-war years(the forties fifties and early sixties)there was more discipline in the schools and generally in society.If you were told you had to go about at school in particular for games etc while stripped to the waist you just got on with it.In fact after a while most lads rather enjoyed the freedom of going around while bare-chested.

The last person to comment confirms what I wrote a long time ago. Back in the era of the 60's no one seemed concerned about the "no pants rule" that was it & we were told it was for hygiene reasons . I suppose in the modern day it would not be "correct" to ask boys to particiopate in pe without underwear. I have also mentioned previously that our tight pe shorts gave us support. Whereas the modern day trend for wearing boxers if worn under shorts would seem to give no protection or support unless lads are compelled to wear some form of athletic support for protection. About time ladds were encouraged to be manly again.

Paul and Ben are absolutely correct. There was nothing remotely strange or suspicious about doing PE in shorts with no underpants and no shirt. It was explained in our very first lesson that the body sweats much more during strenuous exercise and therefore a complete change of clothing was required. That made perfect sense to me, and still does. We had the option of bringing another pair of pants to change into but nobody ever did. It felt a bit odd at first but after a few minutes, I found running around just wearing a pair of shorts with nothing underneath gave me a sense of freedom and was quite exhilerating, and became something I looked forward to every week.

Twenty years on, I was really quite shocked to find out in a chance conversation with my son that he and all his peers wore their PE shorts on top of their pants. How can that be healthy or hygenic?

I, too, am glad I grew up then and not now when some people have been brainwashed into viewing everything - including things they know nothing about or have no experience of - with suspicion and paranoia.

If you look at photos and videos about school life you can see that from about the late 1930's early 40's (especially in the UK but in other countries as well) most schools in Europe changed boys PE kit into shorts and no shirts.In the UK it lasted as far as the late 80's-early 90's, in other european countries till about the 70's I think. I wonder how it had become so widespread. A school isn't in connect with every other schools. So was it a federal recomnmendation from a health establishment?

Paul's point is correct, yesteryear should not be judged by today's norms. Where would we be if it was - would a judge and hangman be tried for murder? Would a police officer carrying out a judicial birching be tried for assault alongside teachers who quite correctly caned misbehaving schoolboys?

I think life was good growing up in the fifties and sixties. I was never aware of anything that might remotely have constituted abuse unless getting the cane for misbehaviour or being instructed to take off underpants before rolling round on a muddy rugby field was abuse but actually it was common sense. I'd rather have grown up in that age than the current one with all the sensitivities and paranoia.

I agree with Paul that what is acceptable in one age may not be at another time.In the fifties the country had just come through a major war and there was still conscription.Boys accepted that you did PE stripped to the waist and just got on with it

I don't think that it is possible to judge another age by the norms of the current time. I never had the slightest sense that I was being abused at school whether it was taking my underpants off for PE or getting the cane on my bare bottom.

Leo is probably right and it was not confined to boys as witness the revelations about Sir Jimmy Savile and other so-called celebrities.

Just read this thread. Naked swimming, no underpants under shorts, no tops, members of staff peaking down the fronts of boys' shorts. Penises shrivelling in the winter cold. Staff 'supervising' queues for the shower.

Don't you think this adds up to something just a little more sinister than training for a 'stiff upper lip'?

It's called paedophilia, which was, and may still be, deeply embedded in the British education system.

If you type the word "gymnastics" ,"gym", "physical education"..etc. you can see that on most of the pictures boys are barechested for PE and gym clubs even in the presence of girls.

http://www.friendsreunited.com/Search/SearchByKeyword?keyword=gymnastics

When I srarted at secondary school in the late fifties our official PE uniform was vest and shorts.
We had come from two different primary schools.At one the boys had done PE bare-chested while at the other one the boys wore singlets.
The bare-chested group started to remove their vests for PE and go stripped to the waist and soon afterwards the other lads started to go topless as well and eventually the games master made us all go stripped to the waist both in the gym and on cross-country runs as well.

I remember Ron Parry!!!! The only person ever to send me off in any Team Sport (I retired from playing Rugby aged 43). Mind you, I did call him a c**t!! (Aged about 15 during a house soccer match Brun vs Ribblesdale)

We also did PE stripped to the waist.We seemed to be divided into three groups-those who enjoyed being bare-chested,those who hated it and the majority who put up with it.
I certainly toughened us up being stripped to the waist outdoors in all weathers.

There was a marked contrast in the way our PE master treated his select group of favourites, as opposed to the less adept pupils, including myself.

After experiencing an accident in the gym, which left me winded, fighting for breath and barely conscious, he did nothing except order a group of boys to carry me back into the changing room. This they did - dumping me on the floor and leaving me alone to recover in my own good time.

But, on those occasions when one of his favourites had suffered a mishap, he was most attentive and sympathetic.

He spoke quite civilly to his select group and I never saw him punish any of them physically, but he just barked orders at the less able group and regularly used his gym shoe on us.

It was not a good way to encourage youngsters to enjoy sport - but things were very different in the 1950s and 1960s.

It was the same, two PE teachers, both different. The other was biased towards the sporty, fit boys. God forbid if there was a fat/useless boy, as would be humiliated in-front of the class. Example on the horse, you were supposed to jump it. He was made to jump it, but ran into the side instead, moving it a little(couldn't jump on the spring-board), with everyone laughing, and repeated it until he got bored.
However the "elite" group would be in the same 'dorm. Normally 8-10 of us ate, trained and slept together. Apart from classes, where we were split.

Interesting comments about PE teachers being ex-military or police. We had two teachers - both were very strict but completely different. The younger of the two had always been a teacher and everyone hated him - he was a real bully. The older one was ex-Army, affectionately known as 'Sarge', and was liked and respected by all. Once he'd established the regime for his lessons - the rules about kit, all instructions (orders!!) to be obeyed immediately and without question, etc (and it didn't take long with us newly arrived 11-year-olds to comply!) and everybody knew where they stood with him and that he was not to be messed with, then he relaxed a little bit with us. It didn't matter if you were not one of the real 'sporty' types (unlike the other guy who wasn't interested in you if you weren't in a school team) - you still got praise if he could see you were putting 100% effort in, and would find ways to reassure you and boost your confidence. He seemed to really understand boys our age - you could go and talk to him about anything and he was the one who let those of us who liked the rough stuff play Killerball and have wrestling tournaments at the end of term - the perfect PE teacher as far as I was concerned.

At my school, we were always topless, except for football and rugby. In the gymnasium, our PE Teacher was ex army and although hard was a great instructor. I was at boarding school and every morning would start with a 6-mile run around the grounds - topless, in all weathers. In the gym, all events were conducted with just shorts - no trainers, because of the floor.
The gym was cold - even in summer, the excuse is to keep moving, not getting cold. We got used to it, all sports were done this way, but even when freezing outside running was still topless. In the gym, we saw how our bodies looked during drills. For example during the rings I had to stop and hold my arms until I couldn't hold it. The whole body shaking as I held it. My team mates urging me to suck it in whilst each of us were pushed, seeing each other push themselves- resulting in really sweaty skinny boys.
Also when we worked out, it kept us cool as well as confidence in our bodies. Most of us were rake thin and really fit, as a result of limited food and daily runs, both in the morning and cross country race once a week.
Gymnastics required stamina and strength and seeing your class-mates work out, competing with one another helped team spirit and body conditioning.

Comments by John Lavender on 24th August 2012   

@ Barrie (Comment No. 300)
At our Grammar school we had plimmies, white Shorts and white Tees as PE Kit but one or two guys started to turn out Barechested, and indeed we tried several times to get our PE Master to change our kit to just Plimsoles and Shorts, coloured to differentiate between the two 'houses' at the school, but to no avail.
That was a shame, because I, and several others enjoyed going barechested, and took any opportunity to do gym as such. No one had any hang-ups about it and I think we were all the better for it. I run Barechested whenever I can, it's a great feeling.

I was at secondary school in England in the sixties and the official PE unifrom was vest shorts and plimsolls.However one boy started going bare-chested and more and more boys followed suit so that very soon we were all stripped to the waist.This started off indoors but eventually all of us were stripped to the waist for cross-country as well with some lads even going barefoot as well.

I attended a boys only senior secondary school in Scotland netween 1965 and 1971. The pe kit was white cotton shorts and white gym shoes (pumps to some!) No top or underwear. The pe teacher gave us these rules on day 1-I had been top less at primary, so no change there. He also undertook "underpant checks" which to the modern reader may seem horrific but were the order of the day. We lined up at the start of the lesson and he would walk along and pull out your waistband and have a look. It was all over in a second but looking back it was terrifying. I cannot remember any boy being caught but the punishment was "the belt"- tawse applied with vigour to the hands- so boys just did not go there. There was also a swimming pool at the school, so later we were allowed to wear our school swimming speedos under our shorts. Some boys chose to wear a "Litesome athletic supporter" which you could buy from pe dept.

The gym was a cold, musty place but you soon warmed up after a few circuits, benchlifting, press ups star jumps etc. Any boy who was deemed not to be working hard enough would be warned and if his work rate did not improve, he was belted.

It was tough but those were the rules!

Two years since I last posted on this!

Briefly - yes, we were naive back in the 60s, but possibly for 11 -12 year olds that was no bad thing. The 'no underpants' rule - remember that 'working class' boys often went without underwear into the 50s (or later) and those of us who did possibly only changed it twice a week (yuck!) - so the smelly, sweaty comments are real. Our fathers wouldn't have complained about 'no underpants, no tops' - you didn't complain about rules in those days (certainly minor things like this); remember that they would almost certainly have served their 'time' in the Forces - no complaining allowed there (and National Service only ended in 1963, so this could have been regarded as 'toughening us up' for that).

For what its worth I still prefer shorter shorts, and running on some common land this morning it felt mild enough to strip my vest off - a great feeling.

Just random thoughts from a grumpy old soul ...

Ah, Happy Days!

To Nevin I agree & have always thought that perhaps we were naive & had no thought about homosexuality. Teachers checked us to see if we wore pants perhaps pulling out the back of our shorts or somewtimes the front. Yep no one complained & after all we were all naked toghther in the communal showers so who cared?

Underwear was strictly forbidden under our gym shorts. It seems to have been a common rule in the UK, pre-1970. At the same time coaches in the US insisted on jockstraps or supporters being worn, while as strapping teenagers we had nothing in the way of support.
One PE teacher would carry out checks by pulling the front off our shorts right out and having a good look. It sounds Creepy now but back then we had communal showers and were often queuing up naked to shower. We never considered homosexuality then, we were so naive.

As many have commented in the fities boys were stripped to the waist as a matter of course and as has been said it made us concerned to keep our bodies in good shape.

Being stripped to the waist for games did indeed make us concerned about our bodies and our physiques.By the time I was eighteen I was quite well built and muscular with a hairy chest to match and I certaily was not ashamed of my body.

Despite the inclement Scottish weather we wore only shorts and pumps (slip-on sneakers) on the playing fields and during cross country running.
Today my Grandson wears a tracksuit on the playing field to shield his legs from the elements, despite the fact they are only permitted outside on a fine day. They use the gym at any hint off rain. In my day we used the field whatever the weather, the Games Master being the only person in a tracksuit, the boys stripped to waist. The spartan regime toughened us up. Being shirtless made us care more about our appearance and physique.

If you were doing PE in the gym going bare-chested was not too bad as I suppose you didn't get too cold.But it was a different matter having to do outside games and cross-country etc stripped to the waist in the cold winters we seemed to have in the fifties and sixties.

Fascinating discussion here. Like some of you here I was at a prep school in the mid sixties, our gym was just a wooden shed with very little equipment but we still had to work hard. As for p.e we were dressed much as in the photo and the no underwear rule applied as it did for field sports.
It seems unbelievable today that we had absolutely no protection particularly in cricket when all we had were some ropey pads and cotton gloves with bits of spikey rubber strips on the fingers and knuckles - absolutely useless; hockey was similar, I think we were allowed shinpads for that and that was it.
The miraculous thing is that I cannot recall any serious injury. I am sure that no-one today is allowed on the same field as a cricket or hockey ball without the array of armour such as helmets, boxes, thigh pads etc. And quite right too!

Noting the comments re running & pe in winter outdoors, there was also the opposite participating outdoors in what were hot summers!!! with no thought of covering up or knowledge of possible skin cancer. But then you were out in the sun to do you good. In response to Dominic & others despite running etc in the cold & wet we all survived & I think were healthier or is that looking back at life through rose tinted spectacles in the knowledge that we had no other option

At our Boarding School, in North Yorkshire, we had to do cross-country every morning in just shorts, socks and trainers. This was the case right through winter, vests were never permitted. Even in upper sixth at 18, with many hairy chests on show, we ran shirtless. Other outdoor sports were vests versus skins. This was despite temperatures well below freezing, with added wind chill and snow or driving rain. The was still the case when my younger brother left in 1975.

James pointed out that some boys were picked to be skins much more often than others and I remember it being very similar at my school. We usually had four teams in PE, two wearing different coloured bibs, one wearing vests and one with their vests off. So in theory there was only a one in four chance of being on the skins team, but I remember having to take my vest off in our first PE lesson and thinking I’d probably be on a different team next time. I was quite surprised when I was picked for the skins team again and automatically protested ‘Sir, I was skins last time’. Looking back that was probably a mistake as the teacher took it the wrong way, ordered me to take my vest off, stop complaining and get on with the game (in that order). From then on he probably had me down as a whinger and for the rest of the year my PE vest was more often in a pile at the side of the gym than on my back!

John's comment is interesting. Our PE teacher (ex army) occasionally stripped to the waist during track and field sessions in the summer term every year until I left at 18. This chap was a really good teacher who encouraged you rather than put you down. As a 11 year old I started at my new school a couple of months into the autumn term and was told he'd pick the two teams, vests and skins at the start of each PE lesson which unfortunately, for me anyway, was to be a cold Novembers morning. Probably because I was new I was made to stand in front of the class and take off my vest first. I'd soon discovered that certain boys, myself included, were picked to strip down a lot more often than others regardless of weather or time of year both indoors and outside. I remember the girls finding it amusing watching boys take their vests off to join the skins teams and there was good natured banter in the classroom especially when it came to the tutor picking inter house teams. For inter house competitions like basketball,it was skins and vests so if you wore a vest for the first half, you'd take it off for the second. Fitness competitions were done with all the boys barechested and distinguished by different coloured shorts and cross country competitions were skins and vests which made a change from everyone being made to run barechested....if your team was lucky enough to be picked to wear a vest!!

I was at school in the sixties and there was no way that PE teachers would strip off to lead lessons. We boys however were stripped to the waist for all lessons both inside and out of doors whatever the weather.Again it was no good objecting.This only resulted in doing press ups outside for up to a hour while still stripped to the waist.This was if you were lucky!!!!If you drew the short straw you were canedon your bare backside before being sent out to do the press ups stripped to the waist

I attended a boys only prep/public school in southern England in the late 40s/early fifties. Regarding PE kit, no underpants were allowed for PE. Rugby, or Cricket, at pain of a beating; later on older boys would wear jock straps. No bare chests here either, apart from sometimes in midwinter on the Rugby field ! The Headmaster announced 'no boys will wear bathing slips in future' - thereafter swimming was nude, followed by communal showers. It did not seem to bother anyone. Genitals, rather disconcertingly, tended to float upon entering the water. I also remember standing in line waiting for permission to enter the pool. I learnt to swim on the poolside naked, balancing upon a wooden trestle to practice breast strokes - a somewhat humiliating and uncomfortable experience. Trunks would only be worn for competitive events, and for the annual medical inspection, when they would be removed in the presence of the doc. Corporal punishment was carried out by house prefects, usually in the changing rooms, with boys attired in PE kit, then shorts dropped for hits on the bare backside with a gym shoe.

Interesting recollections from John Lavender – I would imagine your PE master was something of a rarity in stripping down to lead the lessons. I went to school about 15 years later and there was no way you’d ever see any of our PE masters in trunks or even bare-chested. In a way I suppose it symbolised their authority, they were the ones who always wore shirts in lessons, we boys had to bare our chests if we were told to do so, which we frequently were as most team sports involved Shirts against Skins. No-one was ever forced to swim naked, if you forgot your trunks you were given the option of swimming without them or joining another class in the gym wearing just your underpants. As far as I can remember every boy in that situation opted for the latter, even though that wasn’t a great deal of fun!

In reply to John Lavender. I agree we had no worries or cares in the pre P/C days. Our pe teacher wore full track suit. but we had no worries about shorts only & no pants or changing & showering together. My problem is these days if I go to a public swimming pool to check & see whether it is (as is becoming the norm) mixed family changing so I do not forget & start getting changed in a mixed area.The cubicles are so small Not like at the gym & pool where changing facilities are separated by gender & you can just go in strip off & change without a worry. At school our swimming lessons were held at a public pool,although the session was exclusive to our school however, we never had the opportunity to experience the freedom of swiming naked. Kid today talk about freedom but I do not think they are as free of worries as we were.

Comments by John Lavender on 27th June 2012   

Our PE master was a Police Sergeant. He often led our lessons stripped to the waist with either tracksuit bottoms or nylon PE shorts on, always going Commando.
He regularly played for the 'Skins' Team when we played Killerball in gym lessons and refereed our wrestling bouts when we had those. Sometimes in swim trunks only if he didn't have his trackie bottoms or shorts with him. Those were the only time we saw swimwear at school as we swam naked in lessons, which he also took ( also naked) when the regular swim teacher was not available. We did see more of his physique occasionally as he was a big guy and the shorts were sometimes a bit of , as they say these days, a 'wardrobe malfunction' but that was just looked on as a bit of harmless fun... Attended Grammar school in the N-E 1963-68, well before the P.C. era. Happy, innocent days..

This photo brings back memories of the fifties and sixties.In all the schools I attended there was a strict policy of being stripped to the waist for all games lessons.This was both in and out of doors.Also for cross-country runs many lads were also barefoot.One boy normally wore a medallion and chain around his neck.Some masters allowed him to keep it on but normally he had to remove it.We had to be striped to the waist outdoors even in the winter of '62/3 with lying snow on the ground!!!

To Eastender:-Actually Dickie Bird(cricket umpire)said much the same thing only yesterday.

Without wnating to digress too much from the topic in the picture of PE, but picking up the thread of the latest comments. Dare I say the words bring back some form of National Service for both male & female. Not neccessarily armed forces as such becuae these days the services need people with qualifications, but some form of discipline & use the Corps perhaps to assist in times of flood or other national emergency.

I agree that modern day youths need toughening up.In my school career we had to do PE stripped to the waist as a matter of course and we didn't dare complain.It would certainly do the youths we see hanging around street corners in hoodies good to do tough physical exercise while stripped to the waist.

Stuart, we didn't have morning runs but had too endure a cold shower every morning with matrons or prefects ensuring we stayed under the ice cold water. We had cross country and orienteering 3-4 times a week. The uniform was vast, shorts and slippers. This was year round. I remember running in quite deep snow and driving wind and rain.
I attended a military academy, mainly for the offspring of forces personnel. We had vests but teams were shirts vs skins. We had daily PT so went shirtless a lot. I had no problem with that. There was emphasis on toughening boys up for future military service. This included the use of CP, but only occasionally, and cold showers every morning, which I hated. One rather quirky uniform requirement was year round short trousers in the first three years. At the beginning of our fourth year we got long trousers with our uniform but no longer got a pajamas top, only bottoms. We had to sleep bare chest in Senior dormitories. This rule was enforced and any boy caught wearing a PT vest to bed would be slippered or caned. The pajama bottom were lowered for this. The Dormitories were very cold in winter. The condensation would often freeze up on the inside.
We were being conditioned to succeed during times of war. Today in South Korea teens receive much harsher treatment at military boot-camps. Teens, who spend too much time playing computer games and not studying or playing sport, are sent to camps during school holidays.
The teenagers complete grueling physical training without shirts for hours on end. This is often done in sub zero temperatures and in driving rain & snow.
Instead of rioting or stealing,like their UK counterparts, these lads are being conditioned to succeed.
We could do with boot camps for gangs of teenage 'chavs' who intimidate residents with their hoods up and faces obscured and their hands plunged inside their tracksuit pants, fondling their bits in public.
BRING BACK THE CANE!

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7917966-photos-unbelievable-military-training-program-for-spoil-children-in-korea

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-korea-bootcamp-pictures,0,7173885.photogallery

I went to boarding school in Yorkshire in the 1960s/70s. We had to run six mornings a week at 6.30am in shorts and plimsolls whatever the weather. I cannot remember the run ever being cancelled. There were always duty masters assigned to the run but others ran too, masters being bare chested was not at all unusual and for many it was the norm.

As with others, underpants were not allowed with shorts and there was a painful penalty for being caught wearing them. The master who was head of athletics and gym was also the master of discipline so in addition to a collection of plimsolls he had a collection of canes which he was not slow to use. He was both a golfer and a squash player so the swing of his right arm packed a lot of power as I and many other boys discovered, in fact that was probably all other boys as I don't remember anyone who didn't get the cane fairly regularly.

Peter you are so right.No bare-chested teaher went on the runs with us.

Like Julian I was at a southern boarding school and experienced early morning runs while stripped to the waist.I did not enjoy it but it was no use complaining.You simply had to get on with it.

To Julian and Ronny. Did a teacher accompany you - stripped to the waist - on these morning runs? No? I thought not!!!!

Having read your comments Andy, I wonder whar would be said today if such a harsh punishment regime was used. Also I agree with your points about no sex education, & like you there was not alkk from my dad about puberty. We did not seem to worry about the changes in our bodies & I wonder if too much is made these days about growing up & growing into sexual maturity is jsut an excuse for bad behaviour. We were more diciplined by our teachers and better for it.

Ronny:- I take your point as we were in the south of England

Julian you say you ended up quite enjoying it. I cannot imagine that. I attended grammar school from 1959-1964. It was brutal. During the 'big snow' we were still punished with unbelievable cruelty, by still having our morning run. We experienced arctic conditions in Northern Ireland in early 1963. I was 15.
The Christian Brothers had us dig a track around the playing fields so the morning run could continue. I will never forget it. We had overcoats and hats while clearing the snow but still had to strip to shorts and slippers every morning. It was shorter than the forest trail but I still doubt if any army would subject its soldiers to such treatment.
We were almost frozen and boys even developed chilblains.

Yes,I had to do compulsory morning runs in the 1970's at boarding schoolin England.The boys were all stripped to the waist and barefoot.At first I dreaded it but eventually got used to it and ended up quite enjoying it

Comments by Stuart on 14th June 2012   

In the 1960's/70's some boarding schools made all boys do an early morning run every morning, irrespective of weather, often wearing minimal kit.

Did anyone go to a boarding school that had compulsary early morning runs, if so how far did you run and were you made to run shirtless or even in just shorts. Did you get used to it, or did you dread being woken up, knowing you had to take off your warm pyjamas, put on just shorts and go out into the freezing cold ?

Same here, white plimsolls, white shorts, no underpants, special kit for rugby.

I agree the no underpants was on the surface a hygiene thing and quite sensible, rolling around on a muddy rugby pitch in anything you might have to wear for the remainder of the day or working in the gym and sweating underpants off made sense. I played rugby until I was about 35 and even though the shorts were brief and we were all adults, it was universally underpants off when changing and at the gym I go to today, underpants off is the norm right across the age groups in the locker room though of course today's fabrics are far better than white cotton.

I think there was also something about control too, it was a discipline of having to do something none of us liked very much but we had to comply or take the painful consequences. We were warned to comply and that there would be checks. The checks happened about every three weeks when we would be asked in the changing room if anyone was wearing underpants and it was sensible to own up. Wearing them cost four whacks of the plimsoll, next we had to turn to face the wall and bend over. It was obvious immediately through thin white shorts if anyone was wearing underpants. If anyone was caught they got eight whacks along with the boy on either side who had failed to turn them in on being asked if anyone was wearing underpants.

I think there was also something almost useful in an age when there was no sex education at school and certainly my father never told me anything about how my body would change as I grew older. Being in communal showers with other boys was reassuring. You weren' the only one who had hair beginning to develop, penis growning and testicles dropping so in the absence of formal education, at least knowing you weren't the only one helped a lot.

Comments by mike on 14th June 2012   

I went to secondary school in the 60s and we had a no underwear rule except that we were allowed to wear our swimming trunks underneath. In fact if we were in one of the sports teams, especially rugby, we were encouraged to do this. I know that this was the case at other schools.
Ours was boys only by the way.

Sid:- It was the 1960's but co-ed.

Daniel: Great to have a reply. You were one of the few schools it seems where underwear was allowed. What era was this. My secondary education was in the 1960's & as with a lot of schools all boys.

We weren't allowed to wear underwear and iany bo tried and was found out he received six strokes of the cane and had to do press ups outside for up to an hour while strtipped to the waist and barefoot.

Sid:- Yes I was allowed to wear briefs under my shorts.

Daniel & Mark follwoing on from most peoples comments were you allowed to wear anything under your shorts?

Like Mark although our uniform for PE was vest and shorts many lads didn't bother with a vest and went about stripped to the waist.Nothing was said and this meant that more and more of us started to do PE bare chest.

Although according to the rules our PE kit was singlet and shorts many boys were always stripped to the waist.Nothing was ever said about them being bare chest for PE and more boys joined them being bare chested.

For the more recent readers I will repeat some of my previous messages of Nov &December 2011. We were told the reason for no underpants was for hygiene reasons. In more detail, We were advised that we would be working hard during pe & exerting ourselves & we had to have no pants & showers were to follow the lesson to prevent us sitting in subsequent lessons with sweaty underwear(how gross). However, as far as I can recall pe was usally the last lesson of the day so the reason were unfounded.
We wore very short shorts (compared today when track bottome seem to be the norm )& invariably white & left nothing to the imagination. But hey no one seemed bothered We were all boys & young men together. How times have changed. What do you think?

I have always wondered why the no underpants rule was so strictly enforced and it would seem univeral, it certainly was at my school and being caught wearing underpants always resulted in a sore bottom. Other rules were enforced rather less. Ideas anyone?

Similar to others, white shorts, bare chest and plimsols in the 1960s and early 1970s.

We wore shirts, shorts and plimsoles for regular PE. Punishment PE was help on tuesday evenings for lads considered deserving. It was circuits in the gym. An hour of hell. We had to be barefoot and barechest and the no underwear rule was strictly enforced, unlike regular games.
It was always followed by a long cold shower. Coach would observe to make sure we stayed under. Always felt sorry for the PE teachers son. He came by car with his Dad who made him do punishment PE every week.

I know that most of us who have left comments experienced pe in the 50's late sixties. I know things have changed with regards to pe kit inasmuch as nowadays it is tops & shorts & underwear allowed. I know that we were put through a strict regime, as many of us has said with cross country runs etc. but what of today is it easier. aAre the physical demands the same? Any present day students able to comment?

I think that being stripped to the waist did instil discipline in boys particularly when being bare-chested on cross country runs in neighbouring roads

In the fifties and sixties I for one certainly did cross-country both stripped to the waist and bare-foot.Many of the other lads did the same.By the time we left school a few of the lads(myself included)had developed hairy chests and were quite muscular.

Judging by the comments posted here, it srikes me that a lot of you suffered under the cohort of ex military people who were recuited into teaching after the war. We had a few in our school who were definitely somewhat unhinged and fortunately for me were not part of the PT department. When I left school (all boys) aged 18 in 1972 things were becoming a little more relaxed and the last swishes of the cane were dying away (I can still feel it however!)
PT was still done much as we see in the photo, we had singlets and shorts with coloured stripes on the side, as juniors no underwear was the norm but I don`t remember it being a rule as such, after age 13 or so we all wore the old cotton Litesome jockstrap, again there was no rule, we just did. Communal showers were the norm as well and I don`t recall any problems.
When I look back, it was certainly pretty spartan, but on the whole it was a good time.

Back inthe 60's we were required to wear shorts and tennis shoes.NO underclothing was permitted, but a shirtcould beworn. You COULD NOT wear your street clothes to PE, and if you did,you were not allowed to pass on the course, but to strip off NAKED and do PE that way..Not many forgot their shorts and shoes because of being afraid to disrobe. I cannot remember of any time that the familyor school administration had any problem with that. And yes, this was an all male class, with no chance of women coming into this area.

Dave & Roy,
I have looked at most of the previous peoples comments & the only conclusion I can come to having read them, is that we are nearly all from the era when we were not so inhibited about our bodies. As you say rules were rules & that was that. I know my parents were told that we did pe with no underwear & no top. No one queried it. Furthermore, most senior schools were single sex so there was not the logistics of running separate classes for pe & no risk of anyone of the opposite sex seeing any one changing. As for showers one big open area with several shower heads & no worries about seeing each other undressed let alone without a shirt. It was all part of growing up. Nowadays boys are too inhibited.

I went to an all-boys school in the 19970s. Like the boys in the photo, our PE was always done stripped to the waist. It was no use "forgetting" kit to get out of the lesson because the teacher had a supply donated by boys who were leaving or who had grown out of theirs. The teacher in the picture is wearing a tee-shirt and socks whereas our teacher wore track pants and a tee-shirt and sometimes a tracksuit top. I always felt that what was good enough for us should have been good enough for him.

"I wnet with the family to a swimming pool of course teen boys just wear short. so what is the difference in doin pe this way?"

There is no difference.
Do they wear shirts for mixed swimming classes? No. That's why I can't see why boys are allowed to wear T-shirts nowadays in most schools for PE.

Tyrone:-if teachers tell boys to strip to the waist for PE then they should be stripped to the waist with no questions asked.As you say you often see lads stripped to the waist in streets etc so what's the problem.

I am assuming teenage lads would resent it if they were asked to go bare top for pe these days. However, at the weekend when I wnet with the family to a swimming pool of course teen boys just wear short. so what is the difference in doin pe this way?

In my time boys were stripped to the waist for PE as soon as they started at junior school when they were seven.This went on until they left secondary school at either sixteen or eighteen.

GD:While still in primary school we used to see the boys from the nearby secondary school running bare-chested.We knew that when we went there we too would be stripped to the waist for games etc and we regarded it as perfectly normal.

Having read the various comments , i can tell you in the sixties our P E was shorts, plimsolls & nothing else. Our shorts were white & the teacher said so we could not wear anything underneath without it showing, bearing in mind we all wore briefs those days.

One boy tried to keep his pants on Fool! The teacher was not daft. On the whole we enjoyed pe & I think enjoyed the freedom of wearing less clothes bearing in mind that for the rest of the day it was strictly uniform blazers & shirts & ties & we were only allowed to remove blazers if extremely hot weather. Anyone else eperince this?

To Sid:-This was in the fifties/sixties and we worfe nothing under our shorts.We wore house shorts which were white.

To the 2 peopl;e named Mark, you say stripped to the waste for pe what era. I presume the pe kit was shorts & nothing worn underneath. In our school the colour of shorts was determined by the "House" you were in. White , Blue,Black. Were yours the same?

Yes Mark Smith I was bare-foot as well as stripped to the waist.

Mark Jones:-Were you barefoot as well as stripped to the waist?

Dave, T-shirt's aren't better. It's the designer clothes and PC brigade at work who'll tell you otherwise because they're making money. A vest, or better still, a bare chest are still the most effective tops. Boys, if given the chance would relish the opportunity to strip to the waist for exercise. It would also solve these "issues" (excuses!) once and for all.

Again I did PE stripped to the waist in the sixties.Thought nothing of it.Boys stripped to the waist.End of story.

At Junior school during the period 1957to 1961 pe mainly was indoors except for hot summer days & for boys was in vests(singlets) & grey school shorts which every boy wore irrespective of the time of year. However, the girls wore a vest & had to remove their skirts & do pe in their underwear. As far as I can recall, there was no complinats about the inequality between boys & girls de rigeur. That just how it was.

Secondary school was a different regime boys only school & pe was indoors & out depending on the weather, & was short tight white shorts (no underwear which would have shown through) & bare top, but we wore plimsolls with no socks. Finished off with communal showers. NO worries or thought about boys seeing each other naked. But it seems this is an issue for lads these days.

I don't think boys really care about having to be shirtless for P.E. so I can't see why most schools changed that. Even vests are vanishing from nowadays schools and they wear T-shirts for gym. Why T-shirts are better?

Yes I was sent to Borstal when I was sixteen and yes I wa stripped to the waist when at Wormwood Scrubs for assessment and at Portland when serving my sentence and working as a gardener

Like Craig my first experience of being stripped to the waist was also on my first day at primary school aged about 5 when I had a medical.Afterwards I started doing PE stripped to the waist both in and out of doors.This continued throughout my school career until I left at the age of nearly 19

Borstal Boy:- Judging from yourI/D you susequently served a sentence of Borstal Training. Am I right and if so did you have to do PE and/work while stripped to the waist

When I was fourteen I was sent to a detention centre for three months.On my first morning there I had to do thirty minutes P E while stripped to the waist and barefoot.This was outdoors at 6 a.m. and was followed by a cold shower.I had previously been stripped to the waist for P E since I was about nine or ten but this was something else!!!

My first experience of being stripped to the waist at school was on my first day at primary school when we had a medical.I then did P E stripped to the waist reegulary so when I went to secoonday school and learned we had to do gym etc stripped to the waist I just got on with it.

I also remember having to do P E stripped to the waist at school.Also as punishments I had to stand outside in freezing weather stripped to the waist and barefoot for at least an hour.

I also had to do PE outdoors stripped to the waist in the hard winter of '62-63 with snow on the ground

At my school in the sixties some boys engaged in unofficial boxing fights and for those they were always stripped to the waist.(Up till then I had believed that only professional boxers stripped to the waist for fights).

I also was always stripped to the waist for P E and again I enjoyed the freedom of being bare-chested.Again it was normal and all the other lads were stripped to the waist and many including myself were also bare-footed.

I remember in the hard winter of 1962-63 having to do P E stripped to the waist outdoors and with several inches of snow on the ground.It was tough but you got used to it.

Perhaps Hardman goes a little bit too far but I don't think that the young thugs would come back for a second helping especially if they were caned and/or birched for breaches of discipline and at the beginning and end of their time inside.

I can also remember occasions when in the sixties in Summer term in periods revising for O Levels and A Levels boys had to go outdoors for the lessons stripped to the waist.Again we thought nothing of it

Further to Mark's comment I can see nothing wrong in making these young criminals be shirtless nearly all the time.It would be a good idea to adopt in our own YOIs.When they arrive to be processed these youths would have to strip to the waist and would remain stripped to the waist thereafter for all activities.This would include several hours of labouring a day and also for meals and for sleeping.They should also have their heads shaved.

We had a Sports day in the Summer Term when all the boys taking part were always stripped to the waist.Again this was normal and we thought nothing of it.

There was a 'whimsical' documentary on BBC4 las week - 'Leotards & vests' - about the British way of keeping fit. There was a section on school PE at the start, with some nice vintage footage. Its still available on iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01g6g2k/Leotards_and_Vests_The_Great_British_Workout/

Cross-country in just shorts - no top or shoes - yuck! It sends shivers down my spine just to think of it!

I loved being stripped to the waist for PE.It was what you did in the sixties and I also went barefoot.

The file name "Sportunterricht" makes me think it could be German. Seems plausible, as I read an article elesewhere about boys being made to do PE shirtless there in an attempt to clamp down on discipline issues. I have no confirmation of that however.

In my schools (primary and secondary) it was normal practice for all boys to do PE and cross-country stripped to the waist and bare-foot.Nothing was thought of it.

John, is it a PE lesson at an actual german school? We are not allowed to have permission for the album so we don't know any information about that picture. But yes it seems quite recent

Shirtless PE in Germany apprently. Photo seems to be quite recent.

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s463/hagi52156/Sportunterricht.png

In reply to Nigel's comments, we had no inhibitions about our bodies. I cannot recall any comments about being shirtles or remarking on other boy's physiques. In fact performong handstands supported by another lad with feet up in the air left nothing to the imagination.

I still thimk as I put in a comment some time ago for some reason lads seem to have more inhibitions about their bodies & it seems these days that comunial showers & changing rooms create a problem for lads. Any current pupil care to comment?

Yorkie,it was co-ed but PE etc was organised separately for boys and girls.

For those who experienced shirtless P.e before. Do you guys make fun of other boy's body or nipples? We had a friend whose nipples are always hard and we call him harry-hard nipples. He always tried to cover them, but the P.E teacher 'insisted' he perform star jumps, to our amusement.

Roy when you say all boys was this a co ed school or all boys?. I did not know that schools insisted on running barefoot. We wore plimsolls but no socks.

When I was at school in the fifties and sixties all boys had to be stripped to the waist for PE. In addition we had to do cross country runs both stripped to the waist and barefoot.

I was at primary school in the early to mid 1970's and remember both boys and girls did PE bare top.

in response to your question Dave, pe indoors white short shorts plimsolls no underwear, no top & outdoors athletics etc the same the only concession was football when we wore any old t shirt or if could afford it a "proper" football shirt & again very short shorts usally the same ones we used for pe except for a few better off boys started wearing colours of their favourite football team. Swimming was once a week at the local public swimming pool used exclusively for school lessons when we wore what are now known as "Speedo" type trunks none of the modern type baggy
shorts that kids wear these days.

Yorkie, so what was your PE kit indoors and outdoors?

I was educated in the 60's up to 1966 at an all boys school. No female input or domination.We took part in PE & football & sports, with the minimum of clothing even during the coldest winter. Having read previous comments we had no problems about using communal changing rooms & shower was not even thought about as being strange. In fact it was all part of the camaraderie of growing up & continued until we left school at 16. Things have certainly changed over the years but why are guys these days so inhibited about their bodies & have to have seperate cubicles for changing & showers?

I was born in Canada in 1954 into a world that was dominated by women (the supposed men in my world were apparently oblivious to that fact).

So, why were girls not forced to perform PE almost naked? Why were boys subjected to swimming naked within the eye-shot of girls?

Gender equality is a myth contrived by females in order to subordinate us even further!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reading Stuart’s post made me recall a lad in my class who hardly ever seemed to wear a vest for PE. Sometimes he just didn’t bring one at all, other times he would start the lesson in his vest and take it off later on, mostly in the gym although I do remember him running outside shirtless as well. We did shirts against skins games quite often and this boy was almost always a skin as he had his top off anyway. The full kit was white vest and red shorts, white socks and plimsolls and most boys wore all the items allowed.

In reply to Marks earlier comment about punishment...If we didn't perform to the teacher's expectations we were taken out of a lesson to be given either laps of the field (anything between 10-15 laps being the norm), or a fitness session outdoors on the yard regardless of the weather. Obviously punishments were done with stripped to the waist and could be quite brutal during a freezing winter.

Comments by John Lavender on 4th March 2012    

@ Victoria : I think there are probably a few of the Boys who were in the photo who have subsequently seen the photo and may even have commented. Over 70,000 hits [and counting] makes the page popular by any-one's standards.
I would speculate that the local paper was anxious to publicise 'their' Grammar school and that the Gym was probably thought to epitomise the Modernity aspect.
The photographer/reporter from the local Paper probably took two or three Photos and just selected the best; I think he would probably be interested only in the Teacher, as far as names or personal details were concerned.

Judging by other posts, at my senior school, we had a pretty relaxed approach to PE and cross county kit. In the gym we wore shorts, plimsolls, socks and a vest. For cross county we were allowed to wear PE or rugby shorts, plimsolls/socks, and a rugby shirt/vest/t-ehirt mix.

What's interesting is that while a lot of boys wore all of the kit allowed, a small number always wore less, so half a dozen boys always did PE striped to the waist, and a couple chose just shorts/bare feet. For cross country some of these boys ran shirtless, and one lad always ran in nothing but shorts, so even if it was raining and freezing cold he never wore a top or any footware.

I wonder if other people had similar classmates who chose to not wear items of kit, even if they would have been allowed to, and if anyone else ran cross county shirtless and with bare feet ?

Comments by victoria horsfall on 3rd March 2012   

does anyone know names of boys in the photo

I went to a catholic high school in Newcastle in the 80's. the PE Kit was white shorts, white socks and a long sleeved house shirt depending on what house you were in. However the house shirt was only worn for outdoor games like football and rugby. Indoor PE and basketball was strictly bare chest. As an 11 year old kit i remember being mortified at having to take my top off in the gym, though this shyness soon wore off. I think it was healthy and made you very body conscious and by the time you got to what was then 5th year or 6th form you kind of felt proud about showing your body off to the mates and in 6th form i rmember a few of the lads had developed hairy chests and they got so much respect, they were kind of seen as 100% all man! so funny thinking back. Regardless if pe was indoors or outdoors it was strictly no underpants under the white shorts, so different from my kids today.anyone else at st Cuthberts in the 70s or 80s?

Apparently a shirtless outfit is still de rigueur in some countries in eastern Europe. I recently saw this documentary on Russian intitutions for juvenile delinquents. The boys are not allowed shirts for sleeping, exercising, work in the brickyard kilns and a number of other activities. I wondered if it is all right to treat these youths so harshly although they are criminals.
Here is an excerpt:
http://www.systemtv.fr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=104&lang=en&Itemid=0

Jim,
I agree completely with your comments. These days the lads have it too easy. I do think that nowadays they are mollycoddled.
As I have logged previously, historically I am sure all things considered we were better for having to paricipate in pe & games wearing virually nothing except short flimsy shorts & no top or pants. With all this excercise I can only remember one obsese lad. Furthermore, I am sure we did not s "suffer" from the colds & sicknes that now seem so prevelant. The cold never hurt us nor did the sun in the summer.
We did have swiiming lessons but we wore trunks. It may have been an interesting experience to swim naked

Crikey, kids these days don't know they are born.

They can wear what they like for school sports of which they have an endless choice if they bother to do any exercise at all.

No freezing cold gyms on Winter mornings and cross country runs wearing practically nothing in the frost and snow.

No corporal punishment to worry about.

We were subjected to a pretty tough regime in the 1950's/ early60's but I am sure it was much more stimulating than school life today which seems totally boring in comparison.

Looking back it was really great fun trying to outwit the very strict teachers knowing what the consequences could be if you failed.

Also as a result of all the sport and physical exercise obesity in children was unheard of. We were really pretty healthy despite the austerity of the times.

Materially kids are so much better off these days but are they physically and spiritually. I am not so sure.

I can't remember much of the Latin I was taught but the phrase ' Mens sana in corpore sano ' springs to mind.

We had a similar system for PE at my school to what Pete described, with different coloured shorts as part of the kit. It was white shorts if your surname was in the first half of the class register, black shorts for boys in the second half. Then for football or basketball in the gym both groups were divided again as shirts or skins, so there were four teams in total. For full size football games we all wore black shorts and half the boys played in skins.

Malcolm,

This was in the mid 80's and we lived at time near the England/Scotland border. We remained barechested for football, each team distinguished through different coloured shorts (black or white depending which class you were in) The only form of rugby played was touch rugby on the yard or when inside and it was teams of 5 against 5.

The other school operated a barechested or skins policy indoors but usually played vests vs skins for football but went barechested for cross countries like us.

Regarding Pete S's post. What decade are you talking about here and what part of the country?

Do you know whether boys in other schools nearby had to be ouside barechested in all weathers or was your school the exception?

Did you wear shirts for football/rugby.

I went to an all-boys school in London in the sixties where shirts were optional inside all year and outside in the summer for PE but shirts were always worn outside for football or winter PE.

The school uniform listed our kit as a vest, shorts, ankle socks and plimsoles. However after changing for our first PE lesson we were to find our teacher thought differently. After being taken outside and lined up on the yard he walked up the line letting us know what was expected in terms of effort and when he reached the end of the line randomly picked a boy and made him face the class and take his vest off. Regardless of the activity,the time of year or the weather,indoors or outside, we remained barechested until we left. As you moved up the school there was no shortage of girls watching and eyeing you up, indeed that's how my wife first saw me.

In response to Robert's excellent comments regarding his grandchildren, given the current financial climate I am surprised that boys aren't being encouraged to exercise barechested or in vests. Parents would save a small fortune!

We wore shiny,satin shorts for outside games without underwear and anyone would easily have been noticed as they were so brief and would have been caned.They were worn mainly for aeshetic reasons.They offered no protection from the cold and I remember some boys crying because of the cold when wearing these skimpy little numbers.

I think Robert's comments about his grandchildren wearing long johns bears out my previous ideas thatboys & youngmen of today are softer & cannot cope with cold weather or strict regimes

What an evocative picture. I was at school in the early 60's, and had forgotten the PE regime. It was bare-chested, or a white singlet at best (no cosy T shirts) despite the lack of heating, and no underpants, for whatever reason. Looking at today's footballers, I must have been a trend-setter, because for some time I got away with wearing trunks (like tight boxer shorts of today), which usually showed a few inches below my skimpy PE shorts. This failed when we were allowed to wear coloured shorts, but I still had my white trunks on, which were then very obvious. The cane soon put a stop to that fashion, but I did still get away with white Y fronts under darker PE shorts. Strange that today my grandsons (15 and 17) often wear long johns under their shorts when training for football with no adverse comments. Must be sheer bliss!

Comments by Mike on 23rd January 2012   

I can report the same experience ( more or less )as Malcolm. At school in the late 60's we were told "no underpants" but boys who played in school teams were encouraged to wear swimming trunks underneath. Definitely a more comfortable experience. Also a great feeling of security on the rugby field!
More senior boys often took to a jockstrap although they were not commonplace.
Definitely the gym equipment was just like the picture.

Well Malcom in response to your comments I do not think we really thought about no pants being uncomfortable we just got on with it.Howevr, our shorts were short
& tight so nothing flopped about.

As for jockstraps they were never mentioned & I don't think we knew what they were.

Interesting photo and comparisons with more recent experiences. The gym shown was similar to ours but I don't remember playing in skins.
I am supprised that many older boys were expected to play games wearing nothing under their shorts, surely this must have been uncomfortable to say the least. At school in the 1970s we had a strict no underpants rule for games (gym, rugby, running etc) but older boys wore a jockstrap, again school rules.

This is just how I remember gym and school and it was great fun. Working on bits of apparatus with the gym teacher helping and demonstrating there were loads of challenges. He was strict which was only right as we could have had some bad accidents if there was no control. I don't remember a single accident in the gym and we didn't have risk assessments. Like others, I remember pirates and killer ball.

We certainly didn't wear shirts or socks for gym, brief white shorts and no underpants and either barefoot or plimsols. Showers had water pumped straight fromt he arctic and they were communal and compulsory. If we didn't behave there was the slipper, a size 12 black plimsol, the strap or the cane depending on how bad we had been, they all hurt!

Sometimes we did indoor P.E in just short no shirt but not that often but indoors always had to be done in bare feet.

To continue with this topic, as I have said I think previously PE without tops was accepted in our day.
Why does there seem to be such inhibition now & boys have to cover up.
During the summer countless lads are seen posing in the swimming pools or on the beach & even walking down the street topless.It does not make sense to me considering that there seems to be no inhibition in showing off designer underwear(in many cases more than the named waistband) by almost wearing low slung trousers.

Comments by Cornelius on 14th January 2012   

Dave,
i don't think it was compulasary at that time, it was more a habit for me.

Comments by Cornelius on 14th January 2012   

Dave,
I was transferred to that school for gym, and we had shirtless gymnastics (as a habit, no questions asked).Must say that it was good for me also to be like that, I improved a lot in the performances

Hello Cornelius!

Was it compulsory or voluntary being shirtless for gym? What was your compulsory PE kit inside and outside?

Comments by Cornelius on 13th January 2012   

Interesting topic here. Just to mention that i did my gyms shirtless as well on atheneum classes in the netherlands during 1970 -1973. (Stedelijke scholengemeenschap), it was great gymn though, and i learned a lot. Perfect!!

Well Derek reading your account it must have been mortifying for you. I suppose that as most schools are now co ed swimming without trunks would be considered a complete no no & would reult in absolute shock horror even if the lessons were boys only

Our school used the local Municipal Swimming Pool although not open to the public during our lessons we wore swimming costumes in the design of what would now be called speedos.

Was it better in the "good old days" when we could go into the local countryside & just be all boys together swimming without worryinh about wearing anything?

Well James it must have been worse for you when you had to share the lesson with girls. At least our school was all boys & all male teachers so to a certain degree it was all males together

At Berkhamsted School for Boys in the 1950's we had excellent gym lessons in the normal curricula of the day. On any particularly hot day in the summer, with no notice, the master would take us to the school pool as a treat. We had no swimming gear with us so we swum naked, age about 14-16. As kids we just assumed this was normal practice.

One day we were having a naked swim, when the Head Master, assuming the pool would be out of use in the middle of lessons, walked in with prospective parents, a couple, who had brought their son and their two teenage daughters in school uniforms complete with hats. To say that we made for the safety of the water quickly was an understatement.

Dave,Inside we wore the shorts which I described,no vest and barefoot.Outside vest and satin shorts.Bit chilly in winter dressed in skimpy kit.

James, what was your whole PE kit inside and outside?

In reply to Sid's comments,we too wore shorts without underwear in the seventies up to my leaving age of sixteen.We wore brief satin shorts,which were fashionable in that era for games,cross country running,and yes we did share the gymnasium with the girls when it was too cold for them to go outside for their games.These shorts were very shiny and filmy and anyone foolish enough to wear underwear would easily have been detected.I felt quite ridiculous wearing miniscule shorts at adolescense.

I have recently discovered this site & find the history interesting because it is my era i.e. boys schools in the mid 60s. I have just caught up with the previous comments & I am surprised by the comments made by Dick 26 Sept 2010. re the fact that up 18yrs of age boys only wore briefs for pe. I assume pe lessons were seperate genders. Perhaps Dick can advise & what year was this. I cannot see it being allowed in more recent years besides in more recent years haven't boys changed to boxers which could present a problem. At least we were allowed if nothing else to wear shorts although they were very tight.

PE & sports were very physical but had the effect that by the time we left school we seemed to be more manly than todays youth.

Re comments by will & the Welsh Marshes. It seems in the sixties normal for no underpants &teachers did check us to see if we were wearing any.Perhaps it was the era but no one seeemed to think anything about it. It just semed the norm. We were more nieve or just not so inhibited abiut our bodies.

Very similar to the late 60s on the Welsh Marches - pe with shorts, and no underpants, and the master lined us up in a row in the gym, and put his fingers down each shorts at the front, to make sure we weren't wearing underpants - I think he got quite a thrill out of it - cheeky ******

I attended a large boys-only secondary school in the 1980s.
The PE year was divided into six half-termly blocks of football, basketball, cross-country running, volleyball, athletics and cricket.
The outdoor PE kit was a plain white football shirt, white shorts and white football socks and trainers. The indoor PE was done in shorts, bare chested, with teams either “skins” or “bibs”.
With regard to underwear, most boys wore white vests and y-fronts. Pants could be kept on but vests had to be taken off when you took off your white school shirt.
At the end of the lesson, everyone had to undress for a communal shower.

We wore short trousers at secondary school and they were compulsary.I had my first girlfriend at thirteen wearing short pants and my second girlfriend at fifteen still in short pants,although her younger brothers half my age were in long trousers.I finaly wore my first long trousers at sixteen.

I was at a Northern Grammar School in `59 onwards. It was as has been described here; the H Teacher ran it like a public school.

I loved going bare chested but was very shy too. There was no bullying, body image issues like the girls had and still do. And now the lads have it too.

There were some sights as you can imagine. Who cared? To this day I go without a shirt whenever possible. Feel sorry for the girls! . .

I certainly remember pe in the 1970s in just shorts, in the gym and on the playing field in the spring and autumn term. I particularly recall playing soccer with no top and barefoot when it felt really cold in October with cold grass covered in dew. I remember other boys playing cricket in summer barefoot and barechested wearing pads to protect against the hard ball - but that was for pe not games (which had different kit rules). I also remember communal showers and one time when I accused another boy of using my towel. He denied it but let me share the one he was using. It was only after everyone had left the showers that I saw my towel (with the same pattern) hanging on the radiator - someone else had covered it with his. Hoe embarrassing was that?

We were often sent out in the snow to do cross country runs wearing only thin white shorts, singlet vests, white ankle socks and white plimsolls. Nothing else.

At the turning point of the run, the PE master would be seen, sitting parked up in his big Ford Zodiac with the engine running, all toasty warm with his flask of coffee and the radio playing. The clever part was that he didn't park there on every occasion, but of course we never dared risk taking any short cuts in case he was there.

As we ran past in the freezing cold, he would mark off our names on his register. This was to ensure nobody had dropped out part way. Only by exerting ourselves to the utmost, could we hope to cover the distance in the time allowed.

By the time we arrived back at school, he would be there, waiting, with his gym shoe in hand. No mercy was shown to anyone coming in late.

I was late, once, because an elderly lady called me into her house to change a light bulb. Always obedient,
I had done so, hoping a minute or two wouldn't make any difference. But, even that small delay put me past the deadline and earned me the wrath of the gym shoe.

Thats just the way it was. Coaches and Games Masters where feared and games were hell instead of being fun, which they should be. At my prep vests and rugby shirts were purchased by parents re uniform list. However it was made clear on the first day that we'd never need the vest and rarely be using the rugby top. We soon discovered we'd receive a severe pinch to the nipples if we failed to try hard enough. Hence the reason for bare chests indoors and out in all weather. We used the playing fields year round, a very unpleasant place when snow covered and still no vest, underwear or sock. Those plimsolls were designed for dry indoor use only, yet we only wore socks and boots for rugby. I'm shivering remembering it.

Just a further thought . The history of pe is interesting . When you think of all the comments regarding outside activities in the snow cross country runs, games & even naked swimming & nowadays the schools all close at the meerest hint of snow!!

in response to the comments by collin 17 nov we did not wear any top but I recall our shorts were very short I am sure shorter that those in the photo.

We were told the no underwear rule was for hygenic reasons although showers were available.
I remember one boy told us he was going to flout the no pants rule aand was prepared to risk the consequences. He must have been a masochist. We all knew that the teacher would see the outline under his shorts (no boxers those days only briefs which showed up) He was made to go back & remove them & was slippered.

That was the way of the world

I also had a spartan regime in an now infamous prep school I attended as a boarder. Bare chested morning runs and cold showers par for the course. We had one sadastic games master who adopted a particularly harsh pumishment routine. He would regularly slipper boys after they had showered. He would have a line of still wet boys clad in only towels waiting in the corridor outside his office. In the depths of winter he would wedge open the outside doors to allow the elements in. The corridor was like a wind tunnel and we would shiver with the cold awaiting the slipper. One at a time we would be called in remove our towels and bend over a trunk for several whacks of a size 11 plimsoll. I received many a stinging rear in this fashion.

The cold wait was almost as bad as the slipper.

It prepared me well for a prefect with CP rights at my next school.

This is how I remember PE at school in the late 1960s/ early 1970s. Gym classes were great fun with sessions just as this one divided into groups to work on pieces of apparatus be it a horse, ropes, bars, wall bars or any of the rest. Sometimes we played killer ball or pirates both of which were fast and furious but great fun. The two pe masters were both strict but encouraging and as long as you did your best they were happy but they always pushed you to your limits, great education.

I don't think anyone was embarrassed about being topless, white cotton shorts were the only gym kit we had and defintitely no underpants. Showers were cold and communal but no one was bothered about things like that, I laugh when I go to the gym these days and the showers are in cubicles.

Discipline was strict, any misbehaviour was dealt with swiftly by use of a long brown strap than hung in the changing room for all to see and four to six strokes of it sobered up any bad behaviour very quickly. For anyone stepping out of line too often there was the cane which over thin gym shorts was not something you wanted to repeat.

Great days!

The history in this picture is interesting. It brings to mind my secodary school days (all boys)in the 60s. I can still clearly remember my father had been to an open evening for parents of boys due to start in the following September & when he came home spoke about the uniform & thnme said " for pe it's shorts & pilmsolls no socks or underpants. This was just accepted as the norm also communal changing room & showers. I do not recollect any problems perhaps a bit of towel flicking but generally the whole concept of w=exposed bodies seemed to be a great leveller. Football was any old footie shirt & no particular loyalties so no oneupmanship. The shorts were short & no such things outside such as tracksuits not even in winter just very short shorts. Only one boy got modern with white nylon shorts, but after the first time playing rain after becoming see through he changed back

Also in this era most boys at secondary school were still wearing grey shorts for uniform including the cold winter of 1963 & did not go into longs until they were about 13 & this signalled the beginning of puberty.

This photo brings back a host of memories. I went to a Grammar School near Birmingham in the early sixties (I won't name it because I don't want to upset the current school management, which I have no doubt is excellent). I hated PE with a passion. The PE teacher was "strict" and had a predeliction for administering the slipper for petty offences; being the last to get changed, for example. I once got five whacks for this mesdemeneour. To be truthful, this never really bothered me. However, on occasion he humiliated me. Initially gym kit was a pair od short shorts and gym shoes. However, in the second year we were instructed to wear swimming trunks underneath. After one lesson he decided to do an inspection. We were ligned up and told to drop our shorts. The other boys did as they were told. I was mortified. I was wearing nothing underneath. He insisted that I dropped my shorts and I protested that I wasn't wearing anything underneath. My protestations fell on deaf ears. I dropped my shorts and stood in the line fully exposed. The walkway to the girls gym was opposite, although thankfully noone saw me. This humiliating experience is still vivid in my mind. Thank you for the opportunity to share it. This is a History Site and this is the experience of a Grammar School pupil in the early sixties. By the way, I love the site!

Aaron, may I ask how does it feel to perform P.E shirtless? Were you embarrased at first? If so, is it because of exposing your belly, chest or nipples?

I totally Agree with you Aaron in all the things you've posted.
Yes, the photo were taken in 1959 but why can't anyone posting about present experiences if it is similar to the photo.And you've written your opinion of the photo either. Yes you're right to correlate discipline and shirtless PE kit as well as being barechested it's much more hygenic and there isn't anything for restricting movement especially for difficult gymnastics exercises. T-shirts are not beneficial for gym.
I encourage you to write more posts even if it's connected with present day experiences. Past and present experiences have a place in here together.

Matthew sorry to offend you! I assume you meant me in your last comments. I am a young man who is interested in photography and history and that's why I wanted to view the 1959 PE photograph. A photograph can capture the mood of the time. everyone has noticed the minimal same kit and for that reason,the kit is not focal point of the lesson but the activity is. and you can see that the boys looked dedicated,enthused and engaged in the activity they were doing they looked relaxed and comfortable in each others presence. Of course I did read the posters comments,some said forced shirtless the norm pre 1980's,alot said they found it beneficial, some aked if it is still practised in some schools or would it never be brought back on a big scale. I responded to these comments being a boy of 18 who probably would be among few my age to have had both compulsory shirts and compulsory skins in my school time.I was a bit longwinded in my descriptions but I was only reiterating the consesus that maybe the old Style PE lessons were better wth the fulfillment and discipline that it gave boys,and that I started upper school forced to wear shirts and the apathy and discipline problems forced a change in policy to bare chest for boys and the better behaviour and enjoyment that came from it and that the modern equality pc brigade which promotes same rules for everyone is not necessary the best in some areas. I should have commented only on the picture I am sorry.

This forum is to discuss the photograph of P.E. in 1959. Some comparison with modern day lessons is justified but all the relevant points have now been made so can we stop these long-winded diatribes that have nothing to do with the photo at all. This is a history site. If you have some facts or experiences to add about P.E. in 1959 please share them. If you want to comment on current practice please find a more appropriate site. Thank you.

I am 18 and I think I have been really lucky cos I have experienced both compulsory shirts and compulsory strip to waist in my school time. looking at comments for 50s,60s,70s,and 80s most were shirtless PE. Most boys my age and younger have not done shirtless but I do know some who have had to be shirtless forced on them like myself.This is because of bullying over plain shirts,and competing and stealing replica shirts and other discipline troubles. they wont bring it in on big scale cos of fairness and equality society which is pc. I have to be honest and say as a Lad who has had to do both shirts and shirtless, I definitely prefer bare chest PE/games. you are cold at first but because of that you have to get stuck in which didn't happen with alot with shirts on. The more you put into sport and PE the more you get out of it, no bullying over cheap or expensive shirts I found. The problem we have with equality is people interpret it wrong they think to treat people fairly means exactly the same things for boy or girl, I think equality means whats right for boys or girls even if it is different. I read other week about a boy 14 whose parents were angry at their son PE Kit being changed to no tops but their argument focused on girls should do PE in bras and girls might see their boy shirtless. but there is no need for that girls are probably Ok in their lessons and do well and behave well in their present kit. What they should be looking at is it better for their boy? yes,not so much bullying over replica or cheap shirts not getting into trouble for forgetting kit and a better lesson for their son, and I guess some mothers of girls at that school will be against boys shirtless cos they think boys are getting special treatment. See what I mean! eqality should be about fair treatment for a person is asking a boy to wear a pair of shorts and no shirt unfair treatment? is asking a girl to wear full kit unfair treatment? No to both. Bullying is unfair to a boy or a girl
though. But you see the full kit for girl and minimal kit for boy helps to prevent bullying both very DIFFERENT types of kit for DIFFERENT people. Also the thing about girls seeing their boy without shirt is amazing the young people near me go round together boys and girls, the boys in summer always shirtless in front of girls. You would think PE kit wouldn't bother them. Just one more thing I noted from comments pre 80s boys called by surnames by teachers.we were always called by first names both boys and girls, but in last 2 years some boys in our year asked the head if boys in our year could have a vote on being called by surnames in class, registration etc. This was cos they were lots of boys with same first names in my year. some got blamed for things wrongly they were 5 Daniels and 3 with my name. The vote was 75% for 25% against.Girls were called by first names and all other boys in school by first names but our year boys then got called by surnames from then on but it was democratic and right for us and it was right for the other boys and girls to be called by first names. See what I mean about difference can still be equal.Our year group boys didn't feel unfairly treat. When people called me by surname I knew they meant me. As there were a few in my PARTICULAR year group with same name.

Comments by John Lavender on 23rd November 2011    

@ London

Yes, agreed.

PE: Single sex lessons, same-sex Teacher.
Minimal kit, with emphasis on fitness, co-ordination,
discipline and ability to play in teams or as an alternative, encouragement to try-out individualist sports such as Triathlon or Cycling.

I was at secondary school ( all Boys )in the 60's & there was the no shirts & pants rule for pe & games

Reading the last set of comments I think it better to stop football shirts being worn to stop the one upmanship & to protect those who cannot afford the latest style. Would it be better to run pe as a single sex lesson & so return to plain short shorts not long ones like the latest football fashion & possibly ditch the boxers for briefs or slips

I am boy 18. At primary school we had mixed PE lessons with woman teacher. Boys wore any colour shorts (not white!)strip to waist and bare feet. girls slapped us on chests but we just let them. girls didn't have showers and went straight to class after, boys had to get showers cos we stink more!the woman teacher supervised us but we didn't bother cos that was rule from beginning at that school. At upper school we had PE indoor and games outdoor lessons. We had football shirts shorts or socks of pro clubs like chelsea and man u,Leeds etc, some had basic plain kit including socks,this went on for a while but in my last 2years at the school the head was angry at expensive kits being stolen and boys in plain kits got picked on so he ordered bare chest for all boys. I didn,t mind cos I did it when younger some had never done it before and they were fourteen. Girls watched but It is better as boys don't have fallouts over footie teams etc. not much kit to remember boys forget stuff more than girls anyway. Most boys get used to it after a while.Should make boys bare chest in more schools my parents said cos thats how they remember it thats why mum never bought me PJs like sisters she said you don't get bedclothes cos you are a boy you sleep in just your underpants.

Comments by John Lavender on 17th November 2011   

To help people avoid having to scroll right through the thread on this very evocative photo, I have c&p'd my post from May 2011 , below, surrounded by >> and << . Anyone with any experiences of Killerball in Their School? Would be interested to hear - just email me.

John

**Comments by Rob, 31st July 2010
Not at all, David! As a special "treat" in the last PE lesson of each term we played a game called Killerball whereby the two teams (consisting of the boys from each of the two classes which were put together to do PE) had to score goals at the opposite end of the gym. Any tactics were allowed to get the ball in the goal - there were no rules at all! My class usually lost so rather than just use brute force and strength we hatched a plan at the end of one term whereby everyone but the biggest, strongest boy in my class was secretly paired up with a boy in the other class except their smallest, wimpiest kid. When the whistle sounded, we all went for our targets and just started fighting with them, meaning our strongest member was free to grab the ball, and only having to deal with their weakest team member, just keep scoring! It sort of worked, but backfired on us in a way because we were never allowed to play it again - I guess the teacher thought our tactics, original, inventive and intelligent though they were (in our opinion!), were just too violent to be allowed in school for a bunch of 13 year old boys even at that non-PC time!

I suspect the specifics of these sort of games and their names varied by region or part of the country - I lived in London - were there similar games in other areas?**

>>Yes they were. We played a similar game in gym class @ our Grammar school (in Gateshead upon Tyne) when I was a pupil there, 1963 - 1968.
Our Gym teacher was a serving Sargeant in Durham (as then was) Police in Gateshead.
Our variation was played between teams of Skins and Vests.
(Technically we had plimmies, white shorts and white tees as PE Kit but when we played games we divided into 'Skins' and 'Vests' - there were just two 'houses' in the school.
Most guys wanted to play in 'Skins' and indeed we tried several times to get him to change our kit to just Plimsoles and Shorts, coloured to differentiate, but to no avail.
The rules/no rules for your game were very similar to ours; sometimes our teacher would join in as well.
The goals were a mat laid at each end of the gym, and sometimes the matches would last a half-hour to 40 minutes. We played this most weeks in PE lessons.
Also, the last four guys to enter the gym for each lesson used to be told to "Run the Gauntlet" as punishment for being slow; they would be made to strip off to the waist, and then made to run down an avenue of the rest of the c
lass in two columns, who had to slap them on the back as they passed them. Some of us deliberately changed slowly to enable us to do gym without a top and get a 'gauntleting' as a way of warming up for the lesson and the 'Killerball' game!>>

perhaps we should return to opportunities for single sex activities camps etc so boys can be less inhibited & as prev writers have said indulge in n.e. & even activities without the restriction of clothing. Who remembers swimming naked in rivers with no thought for elf & safety which today has ruined the "Spirit of adventure" Them boys may not be so inhibited & have more confidence & not worry about exposure

I was at secondary school in the 1960's, and the picture is very reminiscent. We were allowed, no, expected, to wear a white singlet, and very short shorts, with no underwear. To this day, i do not know why underpants were not allowed, as both my sons and grandsons have worn briefs under their PE shorts. I wore trunks (old fashioned name for boxers) under my shorts,and got away with it for a few weeks, before the elastic weakened, and they showed below my shorts. I got the cane for disobeying the no underwear rule!

Comments by John Lavender on 16th November 2011   

Dave (post on 15.11.2011)

See my reply below to Ron who posted earlier on this year on 16.06.11 .

We had t-shirts, shorts and plimmies as Gym Kit; no rule on underwear, but most of us would have just LOVED to go shirtless in Gym and we took any opportunity so to do. We were at Grammar School 1963-68. Our PE Teacher was a Police officer who encouraged us to go shirtless if we wanted to and the only time we HAD to wear a vest was if we played Killerball and we were "Vests" team; only two houses in our school. One had mid-green as a colour and the other sunshine-yellow. I would loved have worn Coloured shorts as an identifier but we only had white.
see my earlier post (02.05.11) about our Killerball games, much missed.

John

"@Ron. Yes I think there is a general adversity amongst boys, particularly those who have hit puberty, to Nipple Exposure (hereinafter referred to as 'NE'. This seems to go back about 20 years; before then it is generally accepted that youngsters were less embarrased about body exposure, certainly in Schools PE/Gym sessions.

The same is also true of other scenarios like the Scouts. In the pre-1980's era, in fact going back pre-WWII, going barechested (and indeed in a lot of camp scenarios, completely naked) was perfectly acceptable, because it was a 100% male environment, there was no PC to speak of, and in fact a lot of kids were eager to go to camp, not only because it was a release from the by-and-large dreadful inner city conditions, but it was bonding opportunity, you could indulge in NE or even nudity and no one bothered.

Some kids just could not wait to go for that reason and also the staff (Scout-Masters and Patrol-Leaders) were supportive; the SM in our village at the time I was at junior school, was also involved in the School itself and was a Naturist , and indeed most of the time at camp I understand he was naked or wore shorts at most. This was considered manly and anyone allegedly wearing more than shorts was generally considered to be "soft".

The parents were generally fine about this, and it is only recently when (ironically) the children of the 50s and 60s baby-boomers have started to go to senior school or scouts that this aversion to NE has manifested itself.

Gender equality has also played its part; if Scouts were male-only then I think we would probably have similar attitudes to NE as in the years before the 1980s.

I personally now wish I had joined-in the fun, a good friend of mine at the time tried to temp me to try it; I wish I had."

I was at secondary school in the 1960's, and the picture is very reminiscent. We were allowed, no, expected, to wear a white singlet, and very short shorts, with no underwear. To this day, i do not know why underpants were not allowed, as both my sons and grandsons have worn briefs under their PE shorts. I wore trunks (old fashioned name for boxers) under my shorts,and got away with it for a few weeks, before the elastic weakened, and they showed below my shorts. I got the cane for disobeying the no underwear rule!

Most of your posts prove that boys doesn't really mind having to be shirtless for P.E. So I can't see why most schools stopped that rule. It is much more logical and healthier being barechested for P.E. I can't see the real purpose of shirts.
Why do boys wear T-shirts in many schools for PE nowadays? Why most schools have stopped shirtless PE lessons? Any ideas?

Like many people who’ve posted I went to school in the 1970’s.

We had very tightly defined uniform requirements, and this also covered PE and games kit. As was pretty common then, we wore only shorts inside, and did cross country in just shorts and plimsolls, so no shirt no matter how cold it was.

I think most boys enjoyed PE and games sessions, much more than most other lessons. I wasn’t embarrassed in any way about being stripped to the waist, and I doubt anyone else was. It was just what you did, and also we had to shower naked after any sports lesson, so you rapidly got used to seeing one another with no clothes on.

Yes the gym was often cold, and the showers were nearly always freezing, but so what. The school cross country course included some local street, and it was a common sight to see boys running with no tops on, so you knew what was going to happen before you first started at the school.

To school on a winters day, generally you wore a vest, shirt, pullover, blazer and coat, so it did seem strange to be forced to take off everything and run outside with a bare chest/back. But again, you didn’t have any say in it, and everyone had to do the same, anyway wearing a thin vest would have been little benefit anyway.

I was at school in the late sixties/ early seventies and have a vivid memory of a rugby session at the start of term. The master was a barrel chested welshman who began proceedings by having us stand in a circle round him and go through the warm-up routine, this ended with us all on our backs, feet towards the centre doing various excercises one of which was both feet up, legs straight(good for the abdominal muscles) at which point anything worn under our very short shorts was clearly on display. After this he announced that he "couldn`t help noticing" that some of us were wearing unsuitable underwear or worse, none at all and the correct item was a jockstrap and woe betide any one not having one next session.I can`t remember what the punishment was to be but I don`t recall any one not complying.

This is an excellent pic which reminds me of my schooldays. I went to boarding school at the age of seven in 1967 and stayed through prep, junior and senior houses until I was 18.

Sports kit was consistent throughout my time, for gym work we had a pair of white shorts, for outdoor PT, running etc. we added a pair of plimsols, for rugby we had a shirt, shorts, socks and boots, underpants were not allowed at any age and checks were made. Wearing underpants resulted in a slippering on the first occasion and the cane on any subsequent occasions. Swimming was always naked.

The sports pavillion was set away from the school buildings and the rule was no sports kit on the school side so we always got changed in there. There were changing bays for about twenty so space for about two hundred boys to change in ten teams and one huge communal shower so no room for anyone to be shy. There was never hot water in the pavillion so showers were always freezing.

The various teachers were strict and unbending, standards were high and nonsense was not tolerated and dealt with swiftly. That said, the sports staff in particular were generally good fun and always went the extra mile to encourage you and get you performing.

For academic work we had monthly tests and there was something called the average marks rule. If your marks in any test fell below your previous average the result was the cane unless your average was over 90%. It certainly was an incentive to keep performance up but of course the harder you worked the higher your marks got and the more you risked a caning. I got quite a few but in the end left with some very good results. Imagine that being applied these days.

When I was at school we wore satin shorts with side slits.They were very revealing and had a shimmering affect.

in our day there was nom inhibition in doing pe commando there couldn't be whaat with thim white nylon shorts ( very short) doing excercises in pairs especially handstands you saw everything & showered together afterwards. are boys more effiminate now & no longer men & embat=rrassed to be naked in showers together?

London Lad, I'm 13, and yes, modern schools have it A LOT better!

he modern schools do boys now wear underwear for pe?

How sad that people had such awful experiences as those described in the recent posts but it seems to have happened outside of P.E. lessons. Thankfully,I think most of us have happier memories and enjoyed our P.E., as those in the photograph seem to be doing.

As I've stated before,I experienced morning cold showers and daily cross country runs whilst stripped to the waist.
Like 'Jon' I went to an all-boys boarding school where the PE staff insisted PE was done barechested both indoors and outside regardless of the weather.
As caning had recently stopped at the school we got seriously gruelling 'punishment hours' in the evening. The PE master was an old sadist, of that I'm now convinced. Any boy would rather have accepted a good caning than get 2 hours
one evening, never mind an ongoing nightly affair as in 'Jons' case. We had ours in the gym bare barefoot, no vest allowed.
Guys behaved to avoid these. There was a huge climate of fear during my time because of this one man.
I once had a two hour session and I was the only one being 'punished'. Although the cane, strap and slipper had been stopped while it was still legal and going on throughout most private public schools in the UK, the school had 'volunteered' to give up whacking and replaced it with something much worse.
That sadist still used the neck strap of his whistle to whip the legs and torso with at will. If one was taking too long to change after games he'd lash you with this cord. It stung like blazes and left a nasty raised stripe.
Can you imagine two whole hours with this nutcase whipping you if he decided you were not sweating enough or doing squats quick enough. Two hours with one drink of water half way. I do not recall anyone having two in a row but do remember the nurse excused lads off lessons the day following one and they'd stay in bed all day. Brutal.

I went to an all male boarding school in Scotland in the mid 1970's. It was a strict regime and quite hard, especially for the new boys.
Every morning we would do a 2 mile run wearing white pe shorts and plimsolls. When it wasn't frozen, we also had to, immediatly after the run, do 4 lengths of the outdoor pool which was so so cold in the winter. We took off our shorts and plimsolls, did the swinm and then dashed back to our House to try and get warm. The thing I remember was that in the cold days of winter, our housemaster and his wife, who were all wrapped up, used to check religiously that every boy had done the run/swim and finished it off with a cold shower. There was no hot water in my House although some of the other Houses had hot water. My House was always very popular though, for some reason. These were harsh times but really only in the winter. In the summer, we all enjoyed it and had a lot of fun.

For a video version similar to this photo see the P.E. scene in the excellent "P'Tang Yang Kipperbang", set in a 1950's grammar school. It is followed by a Head's caning as mentioned by Stephen with an hilarious voice over by the cricket commentator John Arlott. The film, a touching and at the same time funny rite of passage story, is available on DVD.

yes that could be the school I went to in the 1960s White shorts and plimsols a Boy found in underpants did it bare for a few times. Showers were compulsory the only tiem a jock strap was allowed was when you played rugby against another school It ws common to see things hanging out of shorts when you were in the 4th 5th and 6th forms. In the winter cross country runs were shorts only to come rain , hail or snow. A boy who played up went to the hea dand came back with a hot bottom.

My school's PE kit is a bright yellow t-shirt with black shorts, together with the standard school socks and shoes. We also had a white vest used during different occasions. After the first PE lesson, our teacher told us to come in the vest instead. We were slightly uncomfortable at first as we could feel the breeze on our shoulders and even across our chests as our loosely fitted vests created air spaces between the vest and our 13-year old bodies. It made us feel more vulnerable. During competitive sports, one team had to be stripped to the waist to differentiate the teams, and nobody liked to be in the stripped team. Boys who did not bring their PE kit would have to borrow another boy's shorts and change out his uniform, leaving him shirtless. As mentioned by someone else, this was perhaps a show of power by the teacher, and to force the boy into a compliant and submissive state, knowing that he was being punished. 

Ahh, school PE lessons ... I went to school a little later than many others her (mid 1970s - mid 1980s) but I think I just caught the 'tail end' of the old regime, as my state schools (in the 'grim north') were rather old-fashioned with many staff (including the venerable PE teacher) having been there decades and very stuck in their (traditional) ways.

There was no uniform at my old Infant school (it was a poor school in a poor area) and this was reflected in the PE kit - boys simply did indoor work (there were no outdoor facilities) stripped down to underpants and in bare feet. Unthinkable today, but very common back there and then. I vaguely recollect being allowed to keep my white vest occasionally, but really, we never questioned or thought about it - we simply did as we were told!

Moving up to Juniors we got our first taste of 'proper' PE involving apparatus work like in the photo. Again, the school didn't have a uniform, but we were expected to bring and wear 'suitable' shorts (i.e. proper gym shorts not casual wear). We were allowed to wear black plimsolls indoors and a vest, and a few boys did, but I never bothered, largely spurred by a 'PE mad' friend of mine who always insisted on doing everything bare chested and in bare feet (he used to keep telling me how better it was).

Moving up to Seniors, and I finally got my first taste of having to wear a proper school uniform. The school also had a set PE kit for both indoor and outdoor sports. Outdoors was generally a rugby kit in school colours, although for athletics and cross-country our indoor kit was worn.

Indoors, the kit was ostensibly 'shorts only' and we were permitted to wear the same shorts as our outdoor kit (plain black). However, the rules did permit the wearing of a plain white vest and clean plimsolls or trainers for indoor work, but this was generally frowned upon by the teacher. However it didn't stop some boys from wearing the whole lot (which I always thought wa stupid). Some boys never wore anything for indoor work except their shorts (i.e. bare chest and bare feet) so classes ended up with boys in a mixture of kit. Although I was a rather scrawny boy who was rubbish at PE I always took the class very seriously and did my best, and this (along with my insistence on being bare chest and bare feet) always seemed to impress the PE teacher who was very supportive. Whereas those who wore vests and trainers and generally didn't put any effort in, were the ones who ended up having to do laps of the field in the freezing cold and pouring rain after school!

I miss those old lessons. Like others here I agree that contemporary school PE lessons are ridiculously 'soft' and lax. Yes, back then the gym was always freezing cold, and the lessons (especially circuit training) was relentless ... But at same time there was a certain 'macho' atmosphere with boys wanting to show off and prove that they were 'men' and could perform the various activities as well as the teacher (who, for an old man, was amazingly adept and fit).

But it's all gone now, along with those freezing cold dusty old gyms with their deadly wooden wall bars and medicine balls. Now we have school teaching soft non-contact sports and aerobics ... Shudder ...

Our all-boys boarding school wasn't in Scotland but the PE staff insisted PE was done barechested both indoors or outside regardless of the weather or time of year. If you were seen to misbehave or not apply the required effort you were punished with a 2hr remedial session under the lights on the school yard from 7-9pm, obviously stripped to the waist and the term of your punishment could range from one night upwards to 2 weeks, determined by the PE staff. Now I can tell you this was a nightmare during the winter months!

I experienced morning cold showers and daily cross country runs whilst stripped to the waist. Sheer hell in winter. However I've read of even harsher regimes in Scottish boarding schools where boys had to submerge themselves in a cold bath first thing every morning. Has anyone experienced such a thing?

yes I remember Buckmore Prk. Is there still a Scout Campsite there?

I attended an all-boys Kent grammar school in the late sixties/early seventies. As I recall, our PE kit was white shorts and shirts, with dark blue shorts and red and black hooped shirts for games. Having an open air pool, at least when I started, we always had to wear trunks for swimming. i was never much good at sports, but I cannot remember our PE or games teachers being anything like the hard disciplinarians mentioned here, but they still kept order and had a great deal of respect from us.
Mention of swimming in the nude reminds me of Buckmore Park at the time, a scout campsite, where at that time there were certainly some all-male nude bathing sessions!
It would be considered highly improper now, but little was said at the time, though we scouts were quite rude about the individual who insisted on it!!

Comments by Peter Crossley on 10th September 2011   

Yes, I remember Mr. Parry being my PE teacher back in 1962. The gym equipment is very familiar. Google Sam Hanna, the woodwork teacher. A keen photographer and I believe the first person to film Man U in colour back in 1957! Now beat that.

I did p. e. in just a pair of shorts when I was at school over 40 years ago. We were all the same, no shirt, footwear or underwear, so there was no need for embarrasment. We enjoyed being able to get out of our uniforms and the cold didn't bother us in the winter, even cross-country running was done in just shorts. I think boys were tougher then and didn't have silly hang-ups about their bodies.

I remember ehat I hated the most which was SHIRTLESS PIGGYBACK RIDES! When it was really cold your nipples would get hard. It would not feel good being carried with your hard nipples on soomeone's bare back

Our teacher used to do the same thing when he gave boys a PE detention; first you all got changed into full PE kit, then each boy had to stand up in turn for a kit inspection. Any minor infringement of the rules resulted in extra punishment – wearing the wrong colour socks, or having a dirty towel, for instance. If you passed the inspection, you were then ordered to take your vest off and line up outside – which, if you were lucky, meant the corridor leading to the gym, if not it could mean the playing fields on a cold afternoon. In a regular PE lesson we would sometimes be shirts or skins, in detention every boy was skins without exception.
It did seem illogical to me that I had to put my vest on only to remove it almost immediately, but it was probably a power thing, a reminder from the teacher about who was in charge and who was being punished.

Our classes at secondary school weren't like that, but when I was at infant school in the mid 1980s we did gymnastics in mixed classes with boys in blue vests and briefs (none of us wore boxers at that age) and girls in vests and knickers. However in the summer when it was warm the boys were allowed to tak their vest off and just do gym in their briefs. This practice stopped when we went to junior school (age 8 to 11) and we did gymnastics barefoot in shorts and a t-shirt, still mixed.

At secondary school in the early to mid 1990s we did gymnastics barefoot in white shorts and a green rugby top. For everything else it was that plus socks and trainers/football boots. Shirts v skins must have been frowned upon by then as our rugby tops were reversible - turning them inside out revealed a yellow hoop on one side only. If you were picked for hoops in team sports you took your top off and turned it inside out to wear. In cross country in the summer you were allowed to take your shirt off if you wanted - not compulsory - but those of us who did did it more to pose in front of the girls in the fields we ran past than anything else!

Our kit was listed as a vest and pair of shorts but we were to find out it was anything but. After changing for our first lesson we all trooped out onto the field and lined up. Shortly after the teacher turned up he looked along the line, pointed and shouted "You, out to the front" and then "Right then vest off!" After dropping my vest on the ground we were told this would be our PE kit. One boy mumbled something and was given a cold shower at the end of the lesson for his troubles.

So it was our vests were off for all PE/Games lessons (then 5 periods at week, 1 double and 3 singles and though for some reason we had to put our vests on in the changing room just to take them off a few minutes later) regardless of temperature or weather.
During the winter the girls tried unsuccessfully to monopolise the gym and on numerous occasions when they were outside, their teacher would "accidently" forget extra netballs or equipment and send a couple of girls to collect these from the storeroom at the bottom end of the gym. It always seemed to be timed so they'd enter the gym as our vests were coming off!

Michael, were you forced to perfoem P.E shirtless?

The picture reminds me of my old grammar school days. I was academically inclined but not physically adept - brains not brawn you could say. Which is why I suppose, I went to a grammar school in the first place.

Because I wasn't confident at football or gymnastics or indeed anything of the sort, the PE teacher took a dislike to me. He could have done what teachers are supposed to do, i.e. help me to develop my skills so I could begin to enjoy the activities. But no; all I got was sneering contempt, humiliation and the gym shoe on my backside. Accordingly, the school gym was a torture chamber to me, made worse by being bone-chillingly cold most of the time.

I couldn't get out of that gym quickly enough. I could have enjoyed some sport during my adult life but my experiences there put me off permanently.

Comments by Keith on 15th August 2011   

we had awfull thin seethru nylon pe shorts at my school, only a few lads wore anything under them, and every now and then the lessons would change from football to swimming, and when this happened we only had white shorts, so all the boys had to wear there white football shorts in the pool, which got very seethru when we got out of the pool and stood on the side for diving practice. everything visable

I don't understand how Toby could forget his PE shorts if he was a boarder. Even if he had the world's worst memory, he and his shorts would surely always have been on the same premises.

The boys in the photo are doing apparatus work. At Colne Grammar we did this in one of our two PE lessons each week. We divided into small groups each working on one piece of apparatus until the teacher shouted "Change", when we moved to the next. I never did master climbing a rope! The last lesson of the term was always a free-for-all game on the apparatus called "Pirates". Does anyone remember the rules?

The 'box' on which the boy is doing a handstand could be used for other, more sinister, purposes at Colne. We had to spend wet lunchtimes, unsupervised, in the gym. The bigger boys would take the top off the 'box' and see how many smaller boys they could get in before replacing the top, sitting on it and banging their heels for the rest of the lunch hour. For obvious reasons the trick was to be last boy in; I learned how to wedge myself behind the wallbars.

Come to think of it, the bigger boys had another use for the rugby posts during dry lunchtimes. As the teacher called the register one afternoon she asked, "Where is D*******?"
back came the response from a small voice at the back, "Please Miss, he's tied to the rugby posts." Compassionately, he declined to add what we all also knew, that as well as being well and truly trussed, D******* was tearfully looking at his ankles round which resided his trousers and underpants. Such incidents were not uncommon but had completely disappeared by the time I left.

I forgot to mention swimming. Again we got off lightly compared with others on this post because we always wore swimming trunks. Forgetting them, however, meant borrowing a pair of grotty ones from the pool. The entire school had to attend the annual inter-house gala as spectators. One year a boy competed in white trunks. All went well as he went up to do his "neat dive". After he emerged from the water and walked back towards us down the length of the pool an excited buzz arose. We could not understand this because the trunks did their job from the front. As he passed we realised what he didn't - his wet trunks were completely transparent at the back leaving no detail of his bottom to the imagination. I don't think he got into trouble but he never wore tham again.

I attended a coed (mixed) grammar school in Devon between '61 and '68 and most of the memories on here reflect my own experiences at school. I was a boarder but the school also admitted day pupils. One of the luxuries at our school was the size of the grounds - about 20 acres or so - which meant there was a keen policy of outside PE and exercise in general. Back then, our PE kit consisted of shorts. Oh, and plimsolls if the activity required them. No underwear was the rule, and strictly adhered to.

There was no way you cheat as the shorts were slightly transparent - pants were visible a mile off. Generally no-one cared about being shirtless, especially in the summer, or even being barefooted for that matter. In winter, depending on how cold the day was, a sports vest was allowed.

I don't remember having a jockstrap, things just 'floated' about freely inside the large baggy shorts. I don't ever remember it being a problem though.

The swimming pool was built during my tenure (can't remember what year, but mid 60s approx.) There was no swimming kit so the swimming was done naked, but generally there were no spectators so no-one was bothered in the slightest, it just seemed perfectly normal. The only time some of the boys got slightly embarrassed was when the PE master was off sick and the girls female PE tutor deputised the swimming lesson.

On one infamous occasion, and I can't think why it was allowed to happen, the pool was shared by both the girls and boys swimming lessons - with the boys at one end doing diving and life saving, and the girls at the other end doing their thing. I just remember feeling at the time that it was deeply unfair that the girls could wear a full one piece swimsuit while we had to be naked.

The girls' puberty enhanced upper bodies didn't exactly help matters, especially as a hormone ravaged teen, either. This fear was borne out as one boy (who I shan't name and shame!) got out the pool and walked straight up the other end to complain to the PE mistress who was taking both classes, and confronted her. As he was admonishing her about the injustice - both of them standing at the poolside near the girls - he developed a huge.. er.. state of excitement shall we say, in full view of the pool and 12 or so giggling and whistling girls, ending with a firm rebuking from the mistress and told go back and carry on diving and not to be such a baby. I seem to remember him being popular after though..

The gym PE was generally just shorts only with no plimsolls. If you forgot your kit, I'm afraid it was birthday suit unless you bunked it - moi, guilty as charged, but hey ho.. hehe, nothing changes, eh?

Generally, I look back fondly of my time at Colyton. I think I was happy for the whole six years there, and lucky to be educated in such a forward thinking and modern grammar school at the time. It was a strict school, yes, and there were times when I found it hard, but I wouldn't change a thing if I'm honest.

Yeah.. I miss those days now.. Oh to be young again!

I attended Colne Grammar School, near Burnley, in the 1950's. The photo could have been of our school. Like them we wore only white shorts for PE with no underpants. However if we forgot our kit we just did not do the lesson; there was no question of having to do it in underwear. Although this was quite a change from the junior school, where we did PE in our ordinary clothes, the big shock came at the end of the lesson when we had to strip off and run through the cold shower holding our towels above our heads. If you forgot your towel you dried yourself on your shorts or any thing else that came to hand At this time, many of us did not have a bathroom at home but we still did not appreciate the icy cold water. We did not feel embarrassed at wearing no shirt or vest for the lesson but were very shy of being seen even in our underpants when we changed. I remember getting the cane when I was 12 on the same day as we had PE and having to stand awkwardly in the changing room as the rest of the class examined the stripes on my backside. Compared with other comments here perhaps we had it easy because I cannot remember anyone being slippered by the PE teacher. \we played Burnley Grammar at football I think.

I was at school in the 1970's, we too has a no pants rule for games. At junior school we wore nothing under our shorts and at the senior school we were required to wear a jockstrap. A jockstrap was on our kit list we were told to wear them by the games teachers.
I expect others had similar rules.

why dont they do it today

Comments by Mike on 7th July 2011   

This picture has stimulated a load of comments including some mention of the old 'no pants' rule for boys which was certainly the case at my school.
I think this is often misunderstood as a 'no underwear' rule as the wearing of some form of support is widely accepted as necessary. This was definitely so at my school in the 70's where the 'no pants' rule applied. But boys like me who were involved in sports teams soon fell into the habit of wearing a pair of swimming trunks underneath our shorts. This usually began at a time when an apprehensive youngster was first selected for the rugby team. A few words of sound advice often followed and a pair of trunks which had seen better days were packed in the kit bag.
I dont think that a jockstrap was usually a boys first support underwear unless maybe he only joined the cricket team.
I dont know if this corresponds with others experiences but maybe it does.

During outdoor games the school's cricket pavilion was often used for changing in and only had one changing area . On some occasions when the boys' games session finished first we were ordered out of the changing rooms by our games master in various states of undress in order for the girls to take priority for showering and changing. We were then lined up outside mostly naked or almost-naked waiting for the girls to finish before we were allowed back in.You can imagine how exposed and self-conscious we all felt as the girls left the changing room. We were petrified but the girls loved it of course and took their time walking past and inspecting us in all our glory!

Re Ron’s question on nipple exposure, I think the feelings of self-consciousness and embarrassment came from being made to visibly stand out from the rest of the class, rather than just the fact of being bare-chested in public. After all, I didn’t feel shy or embarrassed when I took my top off for swimming lessons and every other boy in the class was bare-chested as well. It was a different matter if you were ordered to remove your vest in the gym as a punishment, suddenly you felt under dressed compared to the rest of the class and, I suppose, a bit more vulnerable.
I posted earlier about the uncomfortable experience of being made to do PE bare-chested and barefoot with a class three years younger than me and the whole point about it was that the younger boys were all in full kit. It wasn’t only that I had to do the lesson with my top off, I also had nothing on my feet while they wore socks and trainers, and that made me feel inferior to those kids.
I’m sure it might have been a bit more bearable if the younger boys had all been in shorts only as well, but the feeling of being the odd one out was made far worse than if I’d at least been among my mates.

Comments by John Lavender on 17th June 2011   

@Ron. Yes I think there is a general adversity amongst boys, particularly those who have hit puberty, to Nipple Exposure (hereinafter referred to as 'NE'. This seems to go back about 20 years; before then it is generally accepted that youngsters were less embarrased about body exposure, certainly in Schools PE/Gym sessions.

The same is also true of other scenarios like the Scouts. In the pre-1980's era, in fact going back pre-WWII, going barechested (and indeed in a lot of camp scenarios, completely naked) was perfectly acceptable, because it was a 100% male environment, there was no PC to speak of, and in fact a lot of kids were eager to go to camp, not only because it was a release from the by-and-large dreadful inner city conditions, but it was bonding opportunity, you could indulge in NE or even nudity and no one bothered.

Some kids just could not wait to go for that reason and also the staff (Scout-Masters and Patrol-Leaders) were supportive; the SM in our village at the time I was at junior school, was also involved in the School itself and was a Naturist , and indeed most of the time at camp I understand he was naked or wore shorts at most. This was considered manly and anyone allegedly wearing more than shorts was generally considered to be "soft".

The parents were generally fine about this, and it is only recently when (ironically) the children of the 50s and 60s baby-boomers have started to go to senior school or scouts that this aversion to NE has manifested itself.

Gender equality has also played its part; if Scouts were male-only then I think we would probably have similar attitudes to NE as in the years before the 1980s.

I personally now wish I had joined-in the fun, a good friend of mine at the time tried to temp me to try it; I wish I had.

John

Is the reason for shyness and self conscious behaviour with boys told to be barechested down to the fact of exposure of the nipples? Are barechested boys shy about their nipple exposure?

I was at a home counties high school late 60s. My junior school head was a kindly batchelor who as far as I can remember never hit a kid his voice was enough! He warned us what lay in store at the comprehensive When we went there it was a total culture shock. The cane ruled as did the slipper in PE. The head was ex military as was the PE teacher and his sidekick. I hated sports of any kind ( but later got into weights) By the time we were about 15 I quite liked cross country as we were left to do it, and I could have a fag on the way round. Guess who got caught one day? The PE teacher ordered me to his room not to get changed He produced this enormous worn out black plimsol more sole that upper around size 11.I was forced to touch my toes there followed 6 hard whacks that sounded like gunshots across the shiny PE shorts we wore in those days. The whole of my backside was on fire for the rest of the day and still very sore the day after. When I emerged there was a crowd of lads and several sniggers and knowing looks, although I was damned if I was going to shed a tear for that. It was as if he was whacking a carpet! I realised when I grew up that most of these teachers were pervs. You got slippered for the slightest thing.After I left school and grew into a large bloke I always vowed if I ever came across that pervy [removed, admin] I would deck him. Turns out he dropped dead at 44! I still smoked as well.

i went to a mixed school in the early 80's. the boys pe kit was white t-shirt, white shorts and white plimsols. no underwear.the master checked we were not wearing underwear by looking down our shorts. any boy caught wearing pants had to strip naked and was whipped across the backside with a wet towel.if you forgot your pe kit the first time you had to do it in your pants. the second time with just a towel around your waist even outside sports. if your towel came down you had to carry on naked.

As for everyone else the photo brought memories of my time in the gym at Grammar school in 1959/66

I can remember the first time to this day. All us new 11 year old first formers had to sit on the floor and we were made very clear as to the rules for kit which were clean white shorts and plimsolls ( shoes never to be worn in the gym), no underpants to be worn and a shower afterwards was mandatory. Breaches of these rules would be punished by a tanning.

Our PE master was a superbly fit athlete and fine gymnast and strict disciplinarian.

The next time in the gym one of the boys stupidly wore his briefs and was caught doing so. Six of the best with the slipper followed in the changing room afterwards. Shorts and briefs pulled down in front of everyone. I can see the boy's face now it was deep beetroot red with embarrassment. I vowed never to infringe the rules after seeing that spanking and never did.

Similar punishment was meted out as promised for unwhitened plimsolls and dirty shorts and not showering many times during my time there.

We were all supremely fit after all this physical excercise along with regular cross country runs unlike today's overweight kids.

Yes it was a harsh regime but I value the disciplne to this day; and, yes, no doubt we were terrorised by the masters but today, of course, it is completely the other way round with the kids terrorising the teachers.

They said at the time corporal punishment was abolished that violence begets violence but society and schools today are much more violent than ever was the case in my day and I think this argument needs to be revisited.

The kids today also most definitely need the physical excercise we had.

Reading the last few comments brings back things I have not thought about for years, probably 30 years. At my prep school and the first few years of senior school, we were forced to do wrestling in pe lessons. Half the class really enjoyed it and the other half detested it as they basically got pummelled by the stronger kids. Whilst I was not one of the stronger boys, I really enjoyed wrestling and was quite good at it. If you had a hard match, your top was basically scratched and red raw at the end. As a boarder we were much better as we were always practising in the evenings. During the lessons we were never allowed to wear tops although after school some boys would wear shirts (not me) and it was much easier to wrestle them as you could get hold of something. In those days, boys were boys.

Fascinating stuff, John.

As we only played such games once or twice a term, we looked forward to them with a mixture of apprehension and great excitement. I guess we enjoyed them because it was an occasion when we could legitimately be rough and tough and a little bit violent - we also sometimes had wrestling matches in PE at the end of term which had much the same effect - boys were allowed to be boys, back then!

Was that such a bad thing? It's interesting to look back now and analyse what would have looked like violent mayhem to any adult watching - although there were literally no rules in Killerball, there was an imlicitly understood code of conduct which didn't need to be stated out loud. Yes, it was quite acceptable to knee an opponent in the stomach, elbow him in the chest or sometimes even dish out a good old fashioned punch on the nose, and you expected such things to occasionally happen to you - and if you spent the rest of the lesson with a nosebleed, then so be it - it was that risk and bit of danger that made it so exciting. But...if anyone had done something "out of order" like kneeing another kid in the nuts, or girly hair-pulling, or unnecessarily or repeatedly picking on weaker boys who were no threat to anyone scoring, then even their own team mates turned on them to let them know in no uncertain terms that their actions were not acceptable. Would it be the same today? I doubt it.

Comments by John on 2nd May 2011   

>>Comments by Rob, 31st July 2010
Not at all, David! As a special "treat" in the last PE lesson of each term we played a game called Killerball whereby the two teams (consisting of the boys from each of the two classes which were put together to do PE) had to score goals at the opposite end of the gym. Any tactics were allowed to get the ball in the goal - there were no rules at all! My class usually lost so rather than just use brute force and strength we hatched a plan at the end of one term whereby everyone but the biggest, strongest boy in my class was secretly paired up with a boy in the other class except their smallest, wimpiest kid. When the whistle sounded, we all went for our targets and just started fighting with them, meaning our strongest member was free to grab the ball, and only having to deal with their weakest team member, just keep scoring! It sort of worked, but backfired on us in a way because we were never allowed to play it again - I guess the teacher thought our tactics, original, inventive and intelligent though they were (in our opinion!), were just too violent to be allowed in school for a bunch of 13 year old boys even at that non-PC time!

I suspect the specifics of these sort of games and their names varied by region or part of the country - I lived in London - were there similar games in other areas? >>

Yes they were. We played a similar game in gym class @ our Grammar school (in Gateshead upon Tyne) when I was a pupil there, 1963 - 1968.

Our Gym teacher was a serving Sargeant in Durham (as then was) Police in Gateshead.

Our variation was played between teams of Skins and Vests.
(Technically we had plimmies, white shorts and white tees as PE Kit but when we played games we divided into 'Skins' and 'Vests' - there were just two 'houses' in the school.
Most guys wanted to play in 'Skins' and indeed we tried several times to get him to change our kit to just Plimsoles and Shorts, coloured to differentiate, but to no avail.

The rules/no rules for your game were very similar to ours; sometimes our teacher would join in as well.

The goals were a mat laid at each end of the gym, and sometimes the matches would last a half-hour to 40 minutes. We played this most weeks in PE lessons.

Also, the last four guys to enter the gym for each lesson used to be told to "Run the Gauntlet" as punishment for being slow; they would be made to strip off to the waist, and then made to run down an avenue of the rest of the c
lass in two columns, who had to slap them on the back as they passed them. Some of us deliberatedly changed slowly to enable us to do gym without a top and get a 'gauntleting' as a way of warming up for the lesson and the 'Killerball' game!

I must admit, I have happy memories of my pe and swimming lessons although it was a strict regime for boys but like a holiday camp for the girls. At my prep we did pe lessons all together in a massive gym with the girls wearing skirts and tops and the boys just pe shorts. If it was cold outside the girls could wear jumpers but nothing extra could be worn for the boys. At swimming which we did separtly, the girls could wear simming costumes but the boys were not allowed to wear anything. If pe was cancelled at short notice, we would do swimming but as the girls did not have their swim wear then they could watch, but only after we had all got in the pool. Alos, the boys had to shower, the girls did not have to.

I was a boarder at my prep school which was virtually all boys except for about 4 girls. PE lessons were always bare chested (except the girls) and if we played team games, one team would be given a coloured sash type thing to wrap around our tops.
We did early morning swims in the indoor pool - always naked as the girls were in a different house. Our swimming lessons were always done naked but quite often the 4 girls would be waiting outside for us to finish and would take great delight in watching us.
I had swimming coaching as I was in the school team and there was a right ho ha as to whether we should wear trunks or not as there was a lady coach. There were about 8 of us and I think 6 of us stayed in the buff as we just didn't have trunks to wear and 2 wore shorts. It didn't seem to bother the coach and she trained us very well and put us through our paces. We all got really fit as she really pushed us and it was a lot of fun. I would add that when we did galas, we wore trunks, although evry small ones.

We had a very traditional pe teacher in the mid 70's. It was an all boys boarding and day school. From the age of about 8 to when we were 15 you only wore white shorts and plimsolls for pe. Swimming was also done naked and no boy ever questioned this as it was as normal as it was basically our uniform for sport.The only time that shirts could be worn was if we played tennis but as no one ever had shirts with them, few ever bothered wearing them. Generally it made boys much more confident and no one had any issue as going for showers after pe.

What kind of humuliation will the P.E teacher devise?

There was certainly a strong element of embarrassment in being made to do PE with your top off – many of the PE teachers at my school used this as a punishment. I remember being yelled at for messing around in PE when I was about 13 and being ordered to take my vest off and do press-ups at the side of the gym. I assumed once I’d finished that would be that and when the teacher shouted at me to rejoin the class, I went to pick up my vest, only to be told: “I didn’t tell you to put that back on, did I? Get over here and stand in line.” So I had to do the rest of the lesson in just shorts and bare chest, which felt pretty embarrassing as I was the only one.
There were a lot of similar punishments in PE – running laps of the playing field was a common one and usually prefaced by an order to remove your top, which basically was part of the punishment. The most humiliating experience was when I forgot my running shoes for cross-country, so the teacher made me go and join the class doing PE in the gym at the same time instead… a class of 12-year-olds. I was 15 at the time. And just in case it wasn’t uncomfortable enough having to do PE barefoot with a bunch of kids, yes of course I was ordered to take my vest off and leave it behind in the changing room as well. Not surprisingly the 12-year-olds thought it hilarious to see a boy of 15, shuffling self-consciously into the gym in just a pair of shorts and asking the teacher if he could join the lesson. Not a great deal of fun.

In response to Carl, yes it was embarrassing doing PE like that,especially if you were a very skinny boy. You felt very bare and exposed in skimpy shorts,but you just had to endure it for two lessons a week for your whole time at school. You were also liable to receive corporal punishment for any misbehaviour or slacking,supplemented by any other humiliations devised by the PE teacher. School PE could be an ordeal,probably intentionally so in order to toughen boys.

To everyone who shared their experience here, don't you guys feel embarrased wearing only shorts in P.E? Aren't u ashamed that your nipples are revealed and wouldn't it be hard if it was that cold?

...And I thought being made to do laps of field in the pouring rain was bad! I was 12 when during an outdoor fitness session when I made the fatal mistake of answering back. Our teacher really didn't "do" comments and had already made me remove my vest when he turned and said "You'll not be saying that after I'm finished" After the lesson ended I was told "press ups and laps of the field for you tomorrow". The following morning it was chucking down and I thought my punishment would be put back....erm no. I was taken out of my English lesson and down the changing room. Having changed my teacher just laughed and led me out onto the school yard, which ironically the English block overlooked. After being told to get my vest off I was made to start my press ups and shortly after was completely soaked. Then came the run - 13 laps round the field. After finishing I thought that would be it but was made to do another lot of press ups in one of the puddles that had formed on the field before I could finally go in. I never stepped out of line again and was never picked to wear a vest again at school.

Like Nick, I went to a school where your PE kit depended to some extent on which teacher you had. Officially certain items were optional for PE, like socks or even blue school sweatshirts for cross country. Although we were meant to wear white shorts, some teachers would turn a blind eye if you turned up in shorts that were a different colour, or a plain vest instead of the official school one.
At the start of my third year, we had a different teacher to previous years and one boy in my class warned us we would be expected to do PE with no vest, whether it was a school one or not. His brother, who was a year above us, had already had PE with this particular teacher and been made to go bare-chested. None of us took our classmate that seriously until he turned up for the first lesson, changed into his shorts and trainers and just left his top off.
We soon realised he hadn’t been winding us up when the teacher arrived, looked around with a frown and observed that only one boy in the class was wearing the right kit. Then he announced: “No vests in my lesson, take them off and line up in the gym.”
That was that, some of us were a bit shocked but we did as we were told. Perhaps naively, I assumed it might be different when we had cross country and, along with a few other boys, put my vest on when I got changed – I preferred wearing a sweatshirt but didn’t think it was worth chancing that. It soon became clear that it wouldn’t have made any difference – all of us wearing vests were ordered to lose them immediately and got press-ups as well for our trouble.
Foolishly, I protested that it was too cold outside, to which the teacher barked that I’d better get used to the temperature, and maybe it would help me do so if I did the next day's rugby lesson without my rugby shirt. I could hardly believe what I was hearing, it seemed incredibly harsh, but I didn’t dare complain further in case my punishment became even worse. Cross country suddenly seemed like a picnic by comparison – at least every other boy in my class was shivering in his shorts the same as me, but I was dreading having to strip to the waist for rugby because I knew I’d be the only one.
It certainly wasn’t a pleasant experience. The teams were picked in the changing room, with every other boy wearing either a blue rugby shirt or turning it inside out so that it was white. The teacher glanced at me, standing there bare-chested, and observed: “With that pale skin, you’ll have to go on the white team,” prompting laughter around the room and adding to my feeling of humiliation.
I must have stood out like a sore thumb as I jogged out to the playing field and inevitably I got targeted during the game – boys of that age don’t pass up an opportunity to land a punch or kick on bare flesh. It wasn't surprising that I didn't play very well and by the end of the lesson I was cold, bruised, covered in mud and thoroughly miserable. Thankfully I never had to repeat the rugby experience and, in terms of a punishment, it probably worked because I never answered back or stepped out of line in PE again. But I'm glad to say we had a different teacher again the next year.

I went to an all boys school in the early 70’s. Our gym and changing rooms was in a separate block from the main school

In theory our cross country kit was white shorts, vest, socks and plimsolls, but in year 1 we had a teacher who allowed you to wear rugby shirts as well as a vest or t-shirt, so this became the normal thing to do, especially in winter.

At the start of year 2 we had a new teacher, so for the first lesson, we all started to get changed and lined up outside as normal with various tops on ranging from just vests to some boys who had rugby shirts, with t-shirts underneath. Rapidly he told us to go back to the changing rooms, and come back wearing shorts and plimsolls only, as boys ran stripped to the waist in his lessons, and that’s how we ran from then on.

In the winter most boys normally wore a vest, shirt, pullover, blazer and coat to school, so the worst part was that on a cold winters day, you had to walk from the main school to the gym block wearing 5 layers of clothes and still cold, knowing that in a few minutes you would be back outside lined up in just thin shorts, and stripped to the waist.

There was one freezing cold day with a biting north east wind, when about 5 some of us rebelled and wore rugby shirts. We should have known this was a mistake, as all that happened is we made to come to the front, line up, and told to strip. Also we were back after school every night for a week, being made to run the cross country course, minus shirts of course !

I was at school in the late 70s, early 80s and I remember having to do P.E in my barefeet if I forgot my plimsols.

It was that period when trainers were just beginning to be widespread for sports and gym and I remember one year we had a new gym teacher who didn't approve of trainers and wanted us to wear the old-style rubber plimsols. In the first lesson, he made each boy run across the hall and he would blow a whistle for us to stop and anyone who skidded, i.e had insufficient grips, had to take off their trainers and socks there and then and go barefoot. The second lesson, he just made all the boys in trainers - including me - do the P.E lesson barefoot. At this school, the gym hall doubled up as the canteen and the floor was always filthy and we didn't have showers, so you'd be slipping on squashed peas left over from lunchtime and the soles of your feet would be filthy and you couldn't even wash them afterwards. You'd never get away with that now.

On other occasions at secondary school, where we had quite a strict P.E teacher, if we forgot our trainers we had to do it barefoot. Or if we were doing gymnastics with crash mats. If we forgot our whole kit (which I never did). he had a horrible stinky, unwashed one, vest and satiny shorts and the kid had to wear that. Ultimate humiliation. I had to do P.E barefoot on a few occasions and have never forgotten. I hated it

I attended an all boys prep boarding school in the 1970's. We did early morning runs and in the summer we also had to swim 10 lengths of the outdoor pool, all before breakfast. We ran from the boarding house in white pe shorts and plimsolls, stripped off to do the swim and then ran back to get changed. It was quite fun but in the early weeks of the summer term it could be freezing cold.
In our house swimming competitions, we always swan without trunks as no one was allowed to wear anything. My mother has a picture of me and three other eleven year olds receiving our medals totally in the buff from the housemaster wife. We had no inhibitions and everyone treated it as normal. There were of course some dodgy teachers but they were harmless.

I was at a prep school in the mid 1970's which was boys only. We had a very stricy pe teacher who had been at the school for years and only white shorts were alllowed. This was never an issue and it is all we knew. We often did pe displays in front of the parents and we were always stripped to the waist.
For swimming we were not allowed trunks but I always remember that our swimming pool had individual cubicles which we all got changed in and then came out naked. I was quite a keen swimmer and had extra swimming tuition from the swiming coach at lunchtimes as I could never do the tumble turns. She was an excellent coach and taught me the tumble turns got me into the county team. I cannot imagine now a situation where a teacher would be allowed to do a one to one swimming lesson with a naked 12 year old but that was the way it was and no one minded. By the way, I always felt a bit odd as the swimming coach would not let me change in the cubicles. Odd what you remember.

Comments by Ron Wood on 14th December 2010   

I wasn't the worlds best student but remember my school days fondly & admired most of teachers - Mr Bentley who encouraged us to bring the old 45's to music lessons - Buddy Holly he could take but Conway Twitty wasn't his favourite.Poor old Benny Goodman came in for some stick although he was very poular & took his football pretty seriously & dressed for the part as a referee.I remember he was in tears when it was announced he was leaving BGS.School camps were a ball except for the food which was pretty average.I had to most of my studying again after leaving school as I pretty well wasted years 3 - 5.Still keep in contact with a few of my old friends although it's difficult to find a common thread as we've been in Australia for 35 years.Still working full time as a Tax Agent in the South West of WA.

The difference in my day was that by the time you where 16 your body was in the best shape it could possibly be. Given the Physical Training we endured no boy was fat or felt shame wearing only a pair of shorts, or swimming naked. We did not have a high fat diet or lead a sedentry lifestyle like todays teens

I went to a secondary school in the 70's and for PE it was supposed to be white nylon shorts and white top and plimsoles (no socks) underwear at first seemed to be allowed as long as you brought a change of underwear. The first lesson in the first year all the lads appeared in the gym and some of us had T-shirts and some had proper vests. I had a T-shirt and found that my parents had bought the wrong thing. Our gym teacher had us all strip out tshirts and vests off so we were all now identical. I didnt mind too much and it didnt seem strange. We used to have to two gym periods a week and one games period which was normally football or rugby. For games it was red shirt and white shorts. Parents saved money so i wore the same nylon PE shorts for games as I did PE. Most lads had white cotton shorts though.
We only had a few PE and games lessons into the first term when we were herded into the gym and given a lecture about hygenine and trust and that some teachers had reported to the gym teacher that we were clearly not showering after gym and that lads had not actually changed their underwear or brought a spare set.
The outcome was simple and probably just - no underwear full stop.

PE was just white nylon shorts and plimsoles and games the red shirts and for me and few others white nylon shorts no underwear. The shorts were thin enough and transparent enough to ensure that you could not get away with wearing pants under the shorts.
This was no too bad except during winter when we would freeze and shiver and doing a cross country run in just shorts on freezing january morning was torture. I hated getting back frozen cold and being made to have a shower - the water was cold but bceause our skin was cold it felt as though it was burning standing under the water. A few people would conviently forget their kit or bunk off PE to avoid cross country etc especially when really cold.
In the second year we had an assistant PE teacher who came up with a way of putting a stop to the practice of "Sorry I forgot my kit Sir" It was a cold morning for our gym and I decided to forget my kit, hoping I could sit on the side of the gym instead. Our assistant teacher had other ideas and me along with another lad, had to do PE in just our pants instead. Having to strip down to pants in front of the rest of class was a bit humiliating as the others all laughed> it was more emabrrasing at the end of PE to be told to hang our pants on the wall bars and go and have a shower and we would could collect our pants after detention after school, great now had a detention also. The teacher said he was gettting fed up with excuses about forgetting kit and from then on anyone who forgot their PE or games kit would do the lesson in whatever they had brought or totally naked!
This happened on a Tuesday and we had PE again on the Wednesday afternoon. Wednesday lunchtime came and three of what you could only decscribe as school bullies for my year collared and told me to hand my PE kit over and threatned me with a beating if I grassed them up.
I dreaded the moment I went over to the gym and explained i had forgotten my kit again> i was told just to get into the gym and wait as the other lads got changed in the changing room. Everybody was in the gym sitting on the floor when the teacher asked me to step up and explain to the class why i ahd not changed. I sheepishly said I forgot my kit. The teacher addressed the rest of the class and wanted to know what he had said the day before. I was soon stripped off totally naked with my hands trying to cover myself with everybody laughing> the next hour was pure hell. I never forgot my kit after that! It happened to a few other lads over the years but it was just a different way of instilling discipline.

Comments by Rob Taylor on 24th November 2010   

This photo certainly brought back memories. I could have been in the same photo just 4 years later. It is amazing how times have changed and what was acceptable then just would not be now. I suppose it is partly fashion and partly sensitivity. My friends and I at 12 and 13 yrs looked forwards to P.E. Much better than maths or chemistry! At 15 and 16 there was a definite split. Those who were sporty still liked P.E and all the training associated with school teams. However, lots of boys were no longer interested and worked out sophisticated avoidance tactics. At that age the P.E and games staff seemed not bothered as long as they has a core of fit boys for their teams.
I can remember exactly getting my first parcel of P.E. kit from the school shop when I was 12. Cotton shorts, light blue singlet and 'plimsols'. The letter home prescribing P.E. kit emphasised brining a towel and how important it was to shower. I have no negative memories about the showers. We were supervised through them, mostly to see that we got in and out quickly and were not late for the next lesson. Games was different. There was this big bath which we all jumped in to. Only some of the more 'developed' boys used the showers or walked naked from the changing room. The rest of us were just slightly modest. At 14, 15 and 16 things changed a little. Before then we had a no underwear rule to abide by. The teachers did not have much problem in checking, it was usually obvious. At the older ages there was a strange, very English way of signalling a different rule. At around14/15 the annual letter from the school shop had a different, longer, list of kit requirements. This was triggered by a wider range of sports but also by the demands of puberty. Boys P.E. Kit now included a Litesome Supporter. So you had to buy one or as it was suggested two. There was now a compulsory requirement for a protective box if you played cricket. Probably the most awkward point came when you had to go to the shop with your mum and the lady who ran it asked for your size! As neither mother or boy had any experience of such items it could be horribly embarassing. Looking back, I never did the washing so presumably we both got over it.

Swimming was a summer term activity. We only got to wear trunks when competing with other schools. Hard to believe now, although it was an all boys school so I guess the teachers were not bothered. I don't remember caring about this but I dropped the activity when I was 14. Surely they would have changed the convention after then? I did have a run in with a rather sadistic teacher, not from the P.E dept., but someone who covered. I was 13 and still in the shorts but no pants era. I think the P.E staff were annoyed with this teacher because I was pretty keen and good at P.E. As part of the lesson we had to run around the school field although it was a wet and cold day. I had ended up on my backside covered in mud but finished OK. Then we had to go into the gym, our plimsols were covered in mud and left outside the building on racks. So we were barefoot with just shorts. I was really upset when I was told, along with 4 other boy, to take off our shorts as they were a disgrace for being so muddy. Then we had to go through the last 20 minutes of the gym lesson naked. I don't think I cared about being naked so much as the injustice of the decision. The teacher was an arrogant bully. That is the problem with education. It radicalised me. I complained to the Head Teacher...about the decision to force me to go on rather than shower and clean up. You know what? He agreed. Was that when the rot started or did he realise he might have a problem teacher. Whatever, nothing came of it although I felt emboldened to go to the Head whenever I had a complaint. He must have regretted being sympathetic. Overall tough, wierd but life forming without regrets.

Despite the seemingly harsh environment I experienced with PE at school. I soon began to excel at both cross-country and track.
I had a very slim build well suited to wearing the briefest of shorts and actually learnt to embrace exposure to the elements so often encountered during these activities.
The PE Master would coach his best boys from 4th to 6th forms persuading us to put in extra time after lessons. His attitude to this training was even more intense than the regular PE to which so many boys found abhorrent. However he would not accept a weak performance from any of his 'elite' team and we certainly got to realise this.
Being too 'lightweight' for football or rugby I was consequently selected to be one of the 'lucky' boys to represent the school for cross-country on a regular basis.
We would be entered into various inter-school events throughout the Midlands mainly on Saturdays during autumn and winter terms for cross-country and occasionally track races and athletics.
Sir would coach us with intensity with the aim to gain kudos both for himself and the school.
Sir maintained the ethos of 'shorts only' strip for all training as well as all of these competitions as he argued that seeing us performing so lightly clad made us seem superior in the eyes of the opposing teams giving us the advantage.
On so many occasions we shivered and froze our balls off for the good of the school!
I recall more than one time where the boys we were competing against were made by their teachers to very reluctantly strip down to only shorts because the visiting team had done so.
If we performed well, Sir was jubilant. A poor result and every boy suffered as the ongoing training and coaching regime intensified fourfold in preparation for the next event!

I can't see why PE kit contains shirts nowadays.What's the purpoese of shirts for sports?
Isn't freedom of movement important for gymnatstics for example?

I recall the prefects having pyjamas and dressing gowns! The staff quarters where adequately heated whilst us boys would shiver. Complaint was not an option. In my case I received a greater trashing a during home leave if I was seen to be a sissy. Certainly it was a harsh regime but we didn't have crime as a result!

Yes, I remember the local school outfitters who supplied the games kit for my prep school. If we wanted just pe kit which consisted of white cotton shorts, white socks and plimsolls, we had to strip off and he would fit the appropriate size. We all liked them tight which he allowed. He lost a load of business as my school year (age 12) were asked to trial cotton briefs for pe as apparently they were better fitting. Only wore them for a year as they got ripped and basically they were hopelss and we went back to the shorts. We never wore shirts for pe in all the time I was there and swimming was naked and the only time trunks weer allowed was on open days.

Well Morgan, now that you mention that the school was for children of military personnel, that rings a bell.
It seems that in several armies around the world, officers used to wear pyjamas whereas for the lower ranks nudity was the rule for bed.
Strange how this tradition found its way into a British boarding school.

Mark,
The boarding school I attended in the late 60's was attended primarily by the children of military personnel and had a major discipine ethos. One house master regularly carried out inspections late at night. Looking back on it I believe he was a sadist who had a thing for punishing boys. He would give an entire dorm six stingers with the slipper if he found a lad in the dorm had slipped on a vest or shorts to combat the cold. I often wonder if some of these men where at all suitable for such positions. It was rumoured that boys in a dorm with a different head of house where allowed to share beds enabling them to have two sets of blankets and gain head from each others bodies. I would not be surprised if this was true given the gentleman in question however. He was one of those games masters who took a little two much interest in lads showering and drying properly and insisted on marching us into the freezing cold for outdoor games and used the gym in fine weather.

Morgan, I am familiar with shirtless PE and naked swimming classes but I have never heard of boarders having to sleep naked, although I wouldn't be surprised if this was the rule in some boarding schools at that time.

Perhaps if schools today adopted the sporting and discipline traditions of my day then we wouldn't have a disfunctional society or require ASBOS! At my Boarding school I remember in winter the condensation freezing on the inside of the glass in the dormitory. We still had to sleep in the buff and we didn't have heavy quilts like today, just a sheet and blanket. The heating never worked properly so if you doddled around and didn't get to the showers quick smart you had a freezing cold shower first thing to wake you up, and often you're bare backside would feel the rath of a size 12 plimsole! It toughened us up and made men out of us! We also swam in our birthday suits and the pool was freezing cold. Two morning a week week we had swimming first thing (which made us very alert for the day's clsses) plus two afternoon swims. Any of the masters could use the slipper and for more serious infractions we had to report to the deputy head at the end of classes. A lad sent to the deputy head had to return to his dorm to strip off then proceed through the drafty corridors to queue outside the office. Standing naked with your hands on head in the corridor for all to see was as much a deterent as six welts of the cane on the bare behind. I can say it didn't do me any harm, even though it was harsh even by the standards in those days. I have hardly ever had a cough or wheeze in my life and I put it down to those formitve teenage years!

By the time I reached the 5th form, most of us boys were more conscious about our bodies and how we looked. Rules for PE kit were the same as for the younger boys in that we wore nothing but white shorts and plimsolls for PE, Athletics and cross-country even in the autumn and winter terms!
Black shorts were reserved for games , football, hockey and rugby. It was fashionable at the time to wear all trousers and shorts as low as possible below the waist but PE shorts looked silly if pulled down low or with the waistband folded over.
Myself and a few other boys found the answer to looking and feeling good in our shorts.
The local outfitter's in the town had always supplied both the school uniform and all other school kit. They also offered a tailoring service for alterations, repairs etc.
The owner was oldish but he knew what we wanted, we could select our shorts, I remember mine were thin white nylon split sided athletic shorts, he would adjust the fit and lower the waistband to whatever level asked for. Perfect! The only downside was you had to stand on a table wearing nothing but the new shorts as he fiddled about taking measurements and putting tailors pins in place. I remember he kept getting me to take them off and on again several times as I stood there butt naked!
The cost was nominal and it soon caught on with many of the other boys, there was developing competition between most of us to get the lowest, briefest fitting shorts that you could get away with even extending into the sixthform!

Although I was at secondary school about 10 years after the date of the picture, the gym class looks remarkably similar, both in terms of the kit being worn and the equipment being used.
Our indoor pe kit was white shorts, white plimsolls or bare feet, no shirt and for the first two years no underwear allowed. At the start of our third year, the pe teacher sat us all down and advised us to purchase a 'Litesome Supporter' (jockstrap) from the local sports shop.

For outdoor games in the winter we wore rugby kit and in the summer it was shorts and an athletics vest.
Showers were compulsary after pe lessons. The outdoor games changing room didn't have showers, but instead had one of the old style communal baths. You definitely didn't want to be last into that after playing rugby on a muddy pitch in mid-winter!

Ours was an all boys school, but my sister, who went to the local girls school wore a leotard for indoor pe and a hockey shirt and coulottes outdoors. At my wifes school on the other hand the indoor kit consisted of navy 'gym knickers'and a white polo shirt. She said that vests or a bra were allowed under the polo shirt (and that for some girls the change from the former to the latter was prompted by the pe teacher suggesting it was time).

Had to wear white nylon pe shorts,very smooth and sensual next to the skin,when worn solo.soon got excited in them ,wore them in bed and enjoyed them ,,then we had to wear a jockstrap.i liked the jockstrap..visible through our shorts.

It is certainly not uncommon in sports schools outside the UK. Just watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYBH6ADBd1Q&feature=related

It seems shirtless PE is still a rule in some schools:

http://www.topix.com/forum/education/TVMSMCSKPM64DHE3O

And then think that this outfit was actually condoned by parents! I once asked my mum why I wasn't allowed a warm shirt for PE like my sister and her answer made it very clear: because your sister is a girl and you are a boy.
The school policy was even extended to some house rules: our sister wore pyjamas to bed whereas even on the coldest of nights me and my brother slept in the buff.

I attended a boys boarding school in the Midlands between 1966 and 1971.
PT and Athletics were dominant activities in the school and were organised by an extremely overzealous PT Teacher. He regarded most boys, with the exception of a few 'prima donnas', as physically weak and in need of toughening up to meet his 'standards'.
He was quite relentless, setting fitness targets for each boy.
I made the mistake of answering him back on my first lesson, I was to soon regret this although unlike the other masters he rarely used corporal punishment on boys as he had many other more sadistic ways to discipline us.
The school was located out of town with playing fields and a dinghy lake formed from a disused quarry.
The school hall had to double as the gym so PT was often practised outside in the cold. There was a changing room together with a chilly long concrete walk-through communal shower partially open to the elements. There were multiple shower heads at different heights and angles to ensure that users got a thorough soaking. Showering was always supervised by Sir to eliminate boys shirking.
For all sports and athletic activities boys were only permitted to wear white shorts which were provided. No vest or tops no socks and definitely no underwear. The shorts were cotton but usually quite brief and low on the waist. I recall that when I entered the fifth year, nylon shorts took over from cotton and these were the athletics type with split sides they were much thinner and lighter. They were also very translucent when wet!
On my first lesson I was caught wearing my pants under my shorts and as a punishment and I was made to strip naked and stand up on a bench in front of the other boys for 10 minutes or so – very embarrassing.
Cross-country was at least a twice weekly event. Again boys wore just white shorts and plimsoles whatever the weather and all year round.
We would be set off in groups of similar level. Occasionally Sir would pick one group, usually with me in it, and half way round the course include a swim in the freezing dinghy lake from the wooden jetty to and around a buoy.
One of his favourite toughening-up activities was to line up a group of boys on the jetty have you lean forward in the diving position and one by one push you off. You never knew who was next.
Boys like me that initially could not swim had to endure swimming lessons in the same lake. The temperature was always freezing cold as it was spring fed and half an hour seemed like eternity for a typical lesson. You soon learnt to swim the required 100 yards. Boys were naked for all swimming activities even the inter-house gala races, but no one seemed to mind this.
The cross-country course often meant getting very muddy and this had to be cleaned off afterwards in the showers which were nearly always cold as the hot water always seemed to run out.
I remember on several occasions being particularly muddy from the very deep and wide so-called water jump. Before showering, Sir would then line us up naked against the chain link and hose us down with the fire hose, this was very forceful, extremely cold and it really stung on impact! He would instruct us to turn around in turn slowly whilst he directed the jet all over and not just on the muddy bits!
Happy days!

Yes, the photo brings back fond memories. I attended a grammar school in the 1960's. Although there was a long inventory regarding sports and PE kit, all the indoor lessons were conducted with the students barechested and barefoot. We were permitted only a pair of white shorts for gymnastics. Occasionally we could wear a singlet vest during the winter months but this was always at the discretion of the PE master. Outside activities were performed with a white vest, shorts and plimsolls. Lost or forgotten kit was never tolerated and I remember having to run barefoot around the rugby pitch as a punishment for my amnesia.

gym kit for us in school up to aged 18 was simple.

Boys were only allowed to wear white briefs - nothing else

Girls were allowed navy blue knickers and white T Shirts and a bra if needed

By the way barechested PE and naked swimming classes later on made that me and my brother both chucked our pyjamas at a very early age.
When we were 8 or 9 we started sleeping shirtless and by the time we reached 14 or so we both slept in the buff.

Our shorts were a lot smaller than the ones in the picture.
I remember one teacher who used to make fun of the new boys who sometimes broke out in gooseflesh. "We have a few plucked geese again in here" he used to say.

Remember these scenes well, around that time too. Gym teacher used to open all the windows in the coldest weather. We were always topless in there, I was so skinny I envied others who were more "manly" looking. I don`t envy them now. I was also amazedat the lack of self consciousness in general. Good school.

ron parry remember him well snigger snigger- mate of that pygmy grimes as I bitterly recall

Not at all, David! As a special "treat" in the last PE lesson of each term we played a game called Killerball whereby the two teams (consisting of the boys from each of the two classes which were put together to do PE) had to score goals at the opposite end of the gym. Any tactics were allowed to get the ball in the goal - there were no rules at all! My class usually lost so rather than just use brute force and strength we hatched a plan at the end of one term whereby everyone but the biggest, strongest boy in my class was secretly paired up with a boy in the other class except their smallest, wimpiest kid. When the whistle sounded, we all went for our targets and just started fighting with them, meaning our strongest member was free to grab the ball, and only having to deal with their weakest team member, just keep scoring! It sort of worked, but backfired on us in a way because we were never allowed to play it again - I guess the teacher thought our tactics, original, inventive and intelligent though they were (in our opinion!), were just too violent to be allowed in school for a bunch of 13 year old boys even at that non-PC time!

I suspect the specifics of these sort of games and their names varied by region or part of the country - I lived in London - were there similar games in other areas?

Comments by David Wood on 19th July 2010   

Rob (2nd May 2010) has clearly had a sheltered upbringing. British Bulldog is a game in which one gang of blokes attempt to stop (by almost any means) another gang of blokes getting past them. Last man standing is the winner. Never played it against girls though. That might have been more interesting!

Comments by Tim H on 18th July 2010   

Strange how this photo brings back so many memories!

I can't remember what we wore for games at Primary school in Lincoln in the late 1950s. Moving on to a Grammar School in the 1960s it was white shorts and tee shirt with plimsolls (no socks) for PE. For football and cross country it was black shorts and a rugby style top with boots or plimsolls. No underwear until we got older - I can't remember any checks on what we wore under our shorts - most people wore briefs. (Our school wasn't particularly sports orientated).

In PE some of us started wearing vests and then went down to being barechested. When I went there shorts were baggy and lasted us as we got older, but by 1966 many of us had switched to the new shorter style becoming popular then.

The school wasn't sports orientated - if you were good at games, fine - if note you seemed to be forgotten - or so it seemed.

And, yes, I think PE & games like this did make us 'better' people.

I attended a boys only school in Scotland from 1965 -1971. We had always worn just white gym shorts in primary school. Primary school was mixed school and we had mixed pe classes- the girls wearing white vests and navy knickers.
It was no change when we went up to the secondary school. As I say we only wore white shorts, no tops or underwear. It may seem somewhat strange now but we had "underpant checks" where the pe teacher checked that we were not wearing underpants. The reader must remember that this was some 45 years ago and what is considered inappropriate now was acceptable then! Remember this was a time when corporal punishment in schools was also acceptable ( and even encouraged!) and I can assure you the "belt" was in daily use!
After any pe, swimming or games class compulsory showers following, naked in an open shower room supervised by the teacher. I admit all this was a bit of a shock at first, but we were all treated the same and it was soon the norm for classes.

PE was fairly hard work with lots of circuits, press ups, sit ups etc. I never really enjoyed it but it was accepted.

I appreciate that times have moved on and what was acceptable practice then would not be tolerated now-but I dont think it ever did any of us any harm!

At my secondary school (RC private) in Buckinghamshire in the mid 1950s, the specified PE kit was white shorts and PE vest; on economy grounds, those of us who regularly wore underwear vests, i.e. virtually all of us back in those days, got into the habit of substituting our normal everyday vest for the latter item. After I had been at this school for a couple of years, the PE staff decided that it would be healthier for us to do PE topless and took a vote among us on the matter. Not surprisingly, toplessness got a 100% vote. With this garb, "Shirts and Skins" was obviously out, so we had coloured sashes to distinguish teams when necessary. Although we were expected to wear vests between the changing room and the gym, this rule was honoured more in the breach than the observance and we soon got into the habit of "forgetting" to put our vests back on under our shirts after PE. As we had PE every day of the week, generally in the mornings, we ended up minus our vests for much of the school week and soon most of us didn't bother coming to school in a vest at all, much to the concern of most of our parents, who felt that all children should wear vests all the year round, regardless of climate. There was no prohibition on the wearing of underwear, although for the first couple of years, most of us freeballed. At one point, probably when we were 12 or 13 and one lad got accidentally kicked in the "privates", the PE master advised us that we should think about wearing some form of support, and mentioned a thing called a "jock-strap". I don't think any of us had ever heard of this item of clothing, and i don't think any of us took the trouble to obtain one, but most of us took the hint, and from then on we tended to keep our underpants on for PE.

in my school we had to wear a jockstrap for all sport. It was compulsory ... I don't remember anyone having a problem with it either. Showers were communal ... don't remember anyone having a problem with that one, too.

British Bulldog? A game where half the people in it line up facing a line of the other half, and each has to run through to pass the other side. The other side have to stop them. That's the aim whichever side's perspective you take. I only played it a few times. It's supposed to be really physical but it's actually psychological and needs agility, I got through by looking straight at one spot like I would be breaking through there, then turn sideways mid run and pass on the other side of the heaviest person in front of me. They couldn't respond fast enough so I got through. Once you engage in direct conflict you can't acheive the intended aim so I figured that wasn't really the point, just figure out how to pass, and do it.

Comments by Trevor on 4th May 2010   

Interesting that the picture is by far the most viewed and commented on on the Historyworld site. I attended a Secondary school in Yorkshire in the years 1972-79 and can well visualise our gymnasium and how it was very much like this one.

We we not required to be bare chested except for the occasional “shirts vs skins” basketball games. Sometimes outside in the summer (we had summers then!) one of the PE teachers would have his top off and nobody thought anything of it. I remember during one of the shirts vs skins games I was felt relieved to be a “shirt”. I was small and a little overweight. With hindsight, I felt it would have been better if we all generally did PE shirtless. As it was I did get a bit of a hangup and were I made to do PE bare chested I might have avoided having what was a substantial social handicap. People today may protest at boys doing PE shirtless. “What about those who are overweight, got acne etc?” they would say. My view is that one of the purposes of school (and PE in particular) is to get people to overcome these sorts of anxieties and pandering to them does them no good in the long term.

I go swimming at a local school (after school hours) and find that the boys changing room has individual cubicles for changing as well as individual cubicle like showers. The showers at my school were communal and nobody cared about being seen. Even one of the boys who even at the age of 12 was fully developed “down below”! I wonder which generation has the more body image “issues”?

Our PE teachers were among the more memorable (in a good way) and respected of all. Ron Parry sounds as he is the same. My only criticism in my case was perhaps that the less able pupils (like me) tended to get ignored slightly. However I enjoyed PE and never tried to avoid it. With the increase in children with no father around, good male role models are vital and PE teachers I feel are able to provide this. It is just a pity that looking at the 1959 picture, something of real value with respect to a boy's education has been lost.

What was British Bulldog?

In 1959 the school had just moved to new premises.
I was there 1960-67. The gymnasium was not a favourite place. I won't speak ill of the dead but games teachers, like maths teachers, never seemed to have much understanding of the less able. However, I do remember dazing Ron when I sat on his head in a violent game of British Bulldog.

I had a very similar experience to James when my PE teacher made me do laps of the playing field by myself as a punishment at the end of a lesson. The usual outdoor kit was white vest, white shorts (and socks) and trainers, but before I started the teacher shouted at me to take my vest off. Obviously I wasn’t keen to run bare-chested on a chilly afternoon but I had no option, and it probably made me run quicker, both to try and get warm and to get the whole thing over with. When I finally finished my laps I wasn’t allowed to put my vest back on and go indoors, first I had to do 20 press ups by the side of the field.
After that I didn’t mess about or not try in PE as I didn’t fancy repeating the experience, so in that sense it was an effective punishment. But it’s not a good idea to make boys strip to the waist outside as a general rule, then you remove that punishment option.

When I was at secondary school in the late 1960s and early 1970s, boys' PE was done bare to the waist in very short black gym shorts and black plimsolls.No socks were allowed and it was forbidden to wear anything under your shorts.
Cross country running was done in the same kit. As it was a built up area,we had to run along residential streets, round a local park and back to the school past houses and small shops,exposed to public view throughout.

Comments by James on 20th March 2010   

The official kit was trainers, black shorts and white vest, but it seemed they forgot to tell our PE teacher. After changing we were taken outside, lined up and told to strip to the waist. Wasn't interested in your ability so long as you gave 100% and you were barechested.

I remember not giving 100% and found out the hard way one lunchtime when it was pouring with rain I was outside and having to do 15 laps round the rather large school field stripped to the waist. Lesson learned, I didn't make the same mistake again.

There's to much feminism in the school system today. Teach boys to become men and stripping to the waist indoors and outside for PE would help to do just that and maybe take away some of the edge youngsters have these days.

We were always shirtless and the school provided shorts. No UW was allowed, and if inside, barefoot, but shoes outside. One day one of my classmates arrived at PE without his outfit, and the instructor told him street clothes were not allowed, and to strip to his underwear for class. He was freeballing, so did the class naked. Remember back in the late 50's, it was all male classes. Everyone gave him a bad time, and he NEVER forgot it again. We also did our swimming at the YMCA, and that was nude also, so nobody had a problem with that

Comments by Tony Marsh on 24th February 2010   

Thanks for posting the photo of the Gym at Burnley Grammar School , it has brought back many memories . I was a pupil at the school from 1957 until 1962 and had many hard work outs in the gym under the supervision of Ron Parry , an excellent P E teacher. Basket ball was a relatively new sport in Burnley and I represented the school in local matches.An all boys school,in which the P E kit formed part of the school " uniform ". The stripes on the side of the shorts indicating which house you belonged to . Brun ( my house ) dark blue , Pendle red , Calder green , Ribble light blue . Happy days.

What amazes me is this photo was from 1959 but 25 or so years later my uniform was much the same still. Tshirts and socks were listed on our uniform but for gym were still rarely worn- even 25 years on that was still the way.

20 years on again, brings us upto date and the simple shorts and plimsolls only uniform really does look like its from another era, but does capture the simple uncomplicated essence of all a gym uniform needs to be.

Apparently the outfit is not uncommon in Continental Europe.
Here is a video of some boys training at a Belgian sports school in 2009:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H3efxhm1Ig

Yes, Neil - my son also went to an all boys school: barefeet was always an option for indoor PE lessons but apart from that the kit was white shorts and white t-shirt. Only a few weeks after he started the mum of one kid in his class packed his football shirt by mistake but he received no punishment - the teacher wasn't angry - he just said "If you haven't got the right shirt for the lesson, then you don't wear any shirt". After that more and more boys seemed to "forget" their shirts, soon joined by my son, and they never wore tops for PE again. He loved it because it meant that all he had to take were his shorts, which he used to roll up and stuff in blazer pocket!

It’s noticeable that every boy in the picture is wearing exactly the same kit – white shorts, white plimsolls, no shirt.

At my school (early 80’s, boys only grammar), there was an official kit for PE and cross country (which we did one PE lesson all year around), this comprised white shorts, house vest, white socks and plimsolls.

To start with everyone wore all of the kit every lesson (with the exception that a few boys not wearing socks), but gradually items were skipped. By the time we reached the 2nd year, only a very few boys wore all of the kit, with around 50% wearing just shorts indoors, and others not wearing a shirt or being barefoot for indoor PE.

With cross country, a few boys ran stripped to the waist all year around, and nearly everyone did the same other than for the winter. One lad always ran in just shorts, always barefoot and always stripped down to the waist, so even on a freezing cold day with a biting wind he would just wear the same minimum kit, never any shoes or top.

Were other schools the same in that some boys wore less that the kit allowed, or were they the same as the featured school in that everyone wore the maximum kit allowed for each activity?

my pe shorts were short.white nylon,a bit see through,my jockstrap was visible underneath,also the waistband,wore umbro nylon shorts,white for football,very smooth,and soft next to my skin.looked good in them,plus a jock.

Mark is right - shorts had got much shorter by the 60's and 70's. By the time we were aged about 13 or 14 I remember some boys had 3 or 4 inches of bare skin between their belly button and the top of their shorts - not good when we forced to do boxing or wrestling and the rule was "no hitting below the belt"! Anyone else experience that? I still agree it's exactly what today's kids need, though!

This photo brings back many memories! Our official kit was a white vest, black shorts, socks and trainers. We were always made to remove our vests and go bare chested for all PE activities (from cross country, footie, rugby to basketball, fitness and athletics)regardless of the time of year or weather. This lasted until we left school after 6th form and A levels.

The shorts in the picture seem quite large compared to those I can remember. I think we all had a couple of inches of bare skin below our belly buttons...

My school switched from being an all boys school to being a mixed 6th Form College while I was there. A novelty was the arrival of the school's first female pe teacher, who helped out with the boys classes as well as 6th Form sports. It was team teaching, but I couldn't help wondering how she felt having to deal with 30 fourth or fifth formers in barefeet and no tops. That was in the 70s.

Comments by pogue on 25th November 2009   

I attended the school (Burnley Grammar)1975 -1980 Ron Parry was still the head of sports- he died I believe earlier this year.Nice bloke who cared for the school and the boys.you were only known by your surname as a pupil then.His school nickname was gay paris - never proven - but I never hung around in the showers. he once made me run twice round the grass track in the snow in bare feet and shirtless because my strip wasn't school regulation- he'd not get away with it nowadays.Other nicknames of the time were- bertie yoghurt- nobbie stokes- posy cowell- don juan (donald wain)- hitler and himmler the dinner ladies. takes me back.

This shows you how important&#65279; uniform is for school discipline. I am sure that boys play up much less when having to do PE like this, shirtless and barefoot, it puts them in their place and sends out a message about who is in control, the PE master!

Comments by Toby on 21st October 2009   

I was at a boys' school in the late 1970s/early 1980s and the PE kit was all white: T-shirt, shorts, socks & plimsolls. PE was never done shirtless or barefoot. The same kit was worn all year round no matter what the weather, including for outdoor athletics.

There was a "no pants" rule, which was strictly enforced at first, but after a few years was not, and boys started wearing pants and even swimming trunks under their PE shorts, which were very transparent.

Any boy who forgot his swimming trunks and towel would be made to swim in his PE shorts and use his T-shirt to dry himself.

I remember a curious inversion of what most here said. I was at Northgate High School in Ipswich in the late 70's, a huge sprawl of brick and portacabins strangely absent from Google Maps, hell knows where THAT got hidden. :) While we played shirts and skins games in the unheated gym even when it was freezing out, and cold air coming in the wire mesh covered gap between the gym and the portacabin we changed in, we were supposed to wear more outside. One time I forgot my kit, as did one other boy. The teacher was a right taskmaster, and all the other boys were outside so as not to irk him or keep him waiting when he turned up. This time he was actually late. Two of us, still inside, wondering what to do, and I decided that I didn't want to be the butt of some kind of teacherly retribution so I said sod it, I'm going out there without the shirt I haven't got, better that than lurking in here. He agreed and joined me and we stood there fending off a few funny remarks from the rest, and the other guy had his hands together drawn up under his chin, like fending off the cold, while I was discovering how much I actually liked it. There was a biting sub-zero wind off the North Sea and ice all over the asphalt but I liked it. I rarely ever felt more alive up to that point, and having made the choice to do it was maybe part of it, having deliberately opted not to make myself a victim of circumstance. Anyway, the teacher came along, demanded why we were shirtless, etc, and found us shirts. The one I got stank, really, it was like vomit. It came off before I'd got halfway through the cross country run. One other guy also went shirtless, not the other guy who first chose to do it. He clearly also got it. It IS invigorating, it really does something good to feel the weather and know it isn't going to hurt or kill us, we just need to use our energy to balance it, not fight it. Very liberating. Towards the end of the run, coming back through the streets, a different teacher (there were two, and we rarely saw anything of them for most of a couple of hours) bellowed at us to put our shirts back on. Such a strange inversion, no? I always run shirtless now, even if it gets to -10¬?C with wind and freezing fog doing entertaining things to the hairs on my head and forearms. People look at me with varying looks, but the over-riding pattern is one of being unusual. It should NOT be such a big deal, but to many it now is. The 'reasons' against it border on the pathological, too, and I can only guess that the increased portrayal of people as sex objects to sell things and offer gratification in other ways has made people afraid of their own reactions to this, so they don't like being caught out feeling or thinking that way when they see someone shirtless in public. It's stopped builders being allowed to do it, far more than any risk of skin cancer would. It has nothing to do with safety, or health, and everything to do with a warped sense of morality. Fortunately you can see that it hasn't gotten to everyone, so it's just one of those stupid things peculiar to our age. Right now, for a few years so far, it's actually been fashionable for men to wear shorts all year round, it's big in the UK, and the US. Can't be doing with it myself, I'd rather be shirtless, it looks better, feels better, and I suspect that this fashion is a bizarre displacement of the same desires, changed into something different to find a socially acceptable form when older forms have somehow been denied to all but those of us who don't mind what people think enough to stop us. Things HAVE changed from what most here have said, maybe too much.

I left school in the 90s and we didn’t have PE classes where everyone went shirtless as in the picture, but we did still have teams of shirts and skins. I was 13 the first time I ever heard the PE teacher use that phrase and didn’t even know what it meant when he announced my team was ‘skins’. Then one of my friends ran to the side of the gym, took off his vest and dropped it there and ran back bare chested. Suddenly the penny dropped and I realised I had to take my top off as well. From then on indoor football, basketball and sometimes other sports were always done as shirts and skins, with the teacher picking the teams, and that continued until I was 16.
I remember on one occasion we had to share the gym with another class whose outdoor lesson (either football or rugby) had been cancelled because of bad weather and that meant the teacher had to split more boys into more teams. Because the outdoor kit included black shorts, while my class wore all white in the gym, we ended up playing basketball as ‘skins and skins’, with every boy on the court bare chested but wearing different coloured shorts! That was a strange experience and, not surprisingly, fairly confusing when you tried to pass the ball.

My most abiding memory of this was after I moved to a new school at the age of 11.

My first PE session (a double!) took place on a cold Thursday morning in November. There'd been a sharp frost overnight, and so after assembly we changed into our kit (white vest and black shorts)and were told by the PE teacher the session would be outside.

Once we outside and in a line on the field the teacher looked along the line and told me to go in front of the class. Moments later I was told to strip and drop my vest on the ground. A couple of minutes passed then my new classmates were also made to strip down. There were no moans or groans, just a line of vests.

The teacher alternated the sessions so either the whole class were bare chested or half would wear their vests. I do remember being one of four or five lads who he very rarely picked to wear a vest and as a result almost permanently bare chested, irrespective of the temperature or if we were indoors or out.

Inter class competitions were done this way too, but differed for basketball and football. If you wore a vest for the first half, you stripped for the second and vice versa, allowing the girls to see both classes representatives bare chested during the match.

at my junior schools we had to wear white nylon shorts solo,no vest, and plymsols.at the senior schools i ad to wear a jockstrap ,plus a crcket box for cricket,and nylon pe shorts.nylon umbro shorts for football,and a jock.we all showerd off after sports/pe nude.we had a medical once a year,wearing our shorts only,but had to take them off for the doctor.

Comments by Stuart on 27th August 2009   

I went to a all boys grammar school in the mid 1970’s, all we were allowed to wear for indoor PE was white shorts, nothing else. Although our official kit included a vest and plimsolls, at the first lesson the teacher made it very clear that he expected everyone to have bare feet and strip to the waist. We just accepted this, having no choice in the matter anyway.

We had one two PE lessons each week, plus a sports afternoon. One PE lesson was always indoors, with the other involving a 5 mile run, so we did cross country every week, irrespective of the season or weather.

The supplied kit list specified white PE shorts, running vest or rugby shirt plus plimsolls & socks as appropriate kit, and we all duly turned up at the first lesson, and changed into this kit. A couple of boys didn’t wear socks, and more importantly didn’t wear a shirt or vest. We soon found out why, they had older brothers at the school, and knew what was going to happen. ! Lined up outside we were all made to take our socks off (which I didn’t mind), and then told to strip to the waist (which I did, it was freezing). One boy complained it was cold, and rapidly earned a cold shower for his efforts, never had 30 boys pulled their shirts off so quickly. From then on we always ran shirtless, with a couple of boys always running in bare feet as well, yes it was cold, but everyone had to strip, so you just did it.

At grammar school in the 1970s we did pe in white shorts - no tops, no pumps or socks. It could be quite cold in winter. I remember a couple of times the teacher telling us to wear our school jerseys into the gym to warm up (I remember the prickliness), but then we were told to hang them on the wallbars and carry on the lesson barechested. If you forgot your kit (which thankfully I never did) you had to do pe in you underpants! If you forgot your towel you had to try and share someone else's or "drip dry" as the teacher put it. Not being so keen on semi-naked piggy backs and wheelbarrows, climbing ropes and wallbars, vaults and trampettes (though they were quite good), or "circuit training", I was glad when I went into the 6th form and no longer had to do it.

I went to comprehensive in the early 1970's. Our kit was blue shorts and trainers for gym. No shirts, socks or underwear. For outside sport and cross country rugby shirts and socks were worn but no underwear. We also had a sports hall called a games barn. It was very cold in winter but we had to play five a side football shirts vs skins. The PE teacher always picked which team would be skins. The class was divided into four teams. Two would play while the other two watched and between each round the skins team would quickly put their shirts back on in the hope that in the next game they would be shirts. We had coloured bibs but these were only used by the girls. Every PE class was followed by a shower.

When I was at primary school, I remember being impressed by the lads from the nearby secondary school who had to run cross country stripped to the waist in all wheathers. I thought they looked tough and was looking forward to doing the same kind of exercise. This was in Kingston upon Hull in a built up area. Too bad for me that I went to another secondary school.

Were compulsory shirtless cross country runs common?Did boys have to run through streets either only in shorts?I think they did because there are schools which are far from the countryside.

Funny when you come to think of it. I clearly remember a winter cross country run in Hertfordshire with a teacher all dressed up and twenty-so shirtless boys shivering their ass off.

Comments by Craig on 13th August 2009   

This brings back happy memories. I was at school in Scotland in the 70s and our gym kit was shorts and gym shoes only. We were not allowed tops or socks indoors. For anyone who forgot (or didn't have) gymshoes it was barefeet. And some boys chose to do gym barefoot.
Outdoors we wore rugby top, shorts, trainers and rugby socks. Occasionally, depending on the teacher's mood, we would go outdoors without tops, and sometimes wearing shorts and shoes only. I remember once wearing shorts and school shoes (black leather) for field activities as I had forgotton my trainers. I was lucky not to get the belt as some boys did for forgetting kit. I don't recall anyone being barefoot outside but it might have happened.
If we had been outside for part of the lesson and were finishing off inside (sometimes we had a double period) we all had to go in barefeet - shorts only - as the rule was no outdoor shoes in the gym.
I remember feeling awkward initially about wearing so little in the gym, even embarrassed, but we were all the same and soon didn't even think about it. It was the norm for everyone, and I even came to enjoy it
I was quite shy about my body and I think my PE experience helped me to come out of my shell.
I think we've gone too namby pamby these days. Boys don't know what they are missing.

I went to a comprehensive in Cheshire in the 1980s where a lot of kids were from poor backgrounds. P.E. had to be done barefoot and all ball games were played shirts v skins. Like most of the lads I preferred to be in skins. You would be in trouble if you forgot your whole kit but if you just bothered to take your 'kecks' it was ok.

This is similar to my experience at a boys school in Lancashire - though we were barefoot. I recall doing pe outside too, only in shorts, playing football on the school playing field. In theory you were allowed to wear plimsolls, but boys often didn't bring them since you weren't allowed to wear them in the gym.

According to the links shirtless PE is still a practice in some schools:

http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/p/70311/3346822.aspx#3346822

http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/t/579.aspx?PageIndex=1

http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/t/579.aspx?PageIndex=1

When I was at secondary school in the 1960s boys had to do P.E. in just black gym shorts and plimsolls with no top. Boys were not allowed to wear anything under their shorts. I believe that this minimal P.E. kit was common practice in British schools from about the 1940s until the 1980s. I don't know if such requirements have existed at any schools in more recent times.

This is so like my own school in NE England at the same time: I left in 1960. Gym kit was white shorts, only. No tops, socks, shoes. No underwear was allowed until in the games master's judgement puberty had advanced sufficiently to need support, when briefs or a jockstrap were permitted, provided they were specially for gym/games and not one's ordinary underclothes. Infringement of this rule led to attention with the "slipper" - a large black gymshoe which stung badly. (As we always had a shower together after the PE session, it was easy enough for the master to check our physical development.)

Interesting to read Howie’s comment that their teacher was shirtless as well as the boys. Personally I always regarded being shirtless in PE as a discipline thing, because if you had a PE detention at my school you had to get changed into your usual kit but with no top. Basically the dynamic was this: the teacher was the one who wore a shirt and gave the orders, we lads had to shiver in our shorts and do as we were told.
In the same way, Shirts and Skins – which continued to be common practice until we were 16 - was something I associated with a punishment. We'd be split into four teams - two in different coloured bibs, a third team in white PE vests and the fourth taking their vests off. So if you were picked as a Skin, there’d be only four or five other boys with bare chests while most of the class kept their tops on and you felt you were being made to stand out from the crowd. Of course, the teams were picked completely at random, yet every time I stood in line in the gym, saw the teacher point in my direction and say the word ‘Skin’, it seemed to me as if I was being punished for no reason.
On the other hand, swimming lessons never seemed like that because, of course, every single boy in the class was shirtless. So I don’t think it’s a bad idea for boys to do PE shirtless, just as long as it’s the same for everyone and no-one feels singled out.

Hi!

Is this still a practice there?What is the name of the school?

This photo brings memories of grammar school I attended in the United States. Our PE uniform was blue shorts, no shirt
and no shoes. The teacher was also shirtless,maybe as an example.The idea being that shirtless was part of a boy's life.

Yes, an excellent picture.I also grew up with gym simlar to the picture.We all wore white shorts for what was then known as P.T and we were not permitted to wear any underpants under our shorts.P.T. was followed by a shower or nude swim in the schools pool.I think that as kids we were much healthier with the no underwear rule which was followed for all sports both at school and at home.Incidentally I grew in Cape Town.

Hi Aidan!Is it still a practice there?

There is a video on youtube of a Pe lesson.It is a teacher training video.It seems not too old.
Boys wear white shorts only and girls wear leotards.
It seems it is still a practice in some schools:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoa5QBBiEbs

Comments by aidan on 24th April 2009   

I went to St Cuthberts, an all boys school back in the 1980s, shirts were a strict nono in the gym and it was compulsory for lads to go topless, only a pair of white shorts was allowed. basketball was normally played shirts vv skins. think back it was quite liberating and enabled you to become body conscious , not a bad thing though think it must have been quite difficult for the fat guys

Which grammar school was it?Name?

I went to a Comphrensive school in the early 1990s and we were reguired to be shirtless for indoor pe. I loved it -it gave a realy sense of freedom.I think its a shame schools dont seemed to have continued with the practice.

Hi Nick! Which school was it? Thanks for your answering!

I went to an all-boys school in southern England during the 1980s where the official PE kit was white vests, white shorts, socks and trainers. I remember getting changed for the first lesson in the gym, only to discover that whatever the uniform list might have said, our PE teacher’s view was rather different and we were ordered to take our vests off. From then on it was ‘skins’ and no exceptions, in the gym at least.
We still had to bring our vests for outdoor lessons like cross country, but even then we sometimes had to run in teams, which meant half the class in vests and the other half bare-chested, even in the rain. There wasn’t any point in complaining and most of us wouldn’t have dared to in any case. A lot of teenage boys can be quite cocky, but I think having to go shirtless so often possibly helped to make us better disciplined that we might have been otherwise.

I've heard there are still some schools in the U.K. which require shirtlessness for PE.Which are these?

I attended a northern grammar school in the 1970s and our pe kit consisted of shorts and plimsolls only.

Yes, takes me back. At my school we did all indoor PE shirtless and in bare feet. Only a pair of black shorts was allowed to be worn. Outdoors in winter was in rubgy kit; in summer and for cross-country we were allowed to wear a white vest (singlet) and plimsolls, but nothing more. For summer athletics and track-and-field on the grass we we encouraged to go with a shirt and be in bare feet.

Same for me, I went to a strict comprehensive school in Yorkshire. Indoor PE kit was just a pair of white shorts, no top, no shoes, no underwear.
Outdoor games was a pair of black shorts and trainers but no top and outdoor PE and cross country was white short and plimsoles. We had outdoor PE throughout the year and can even remember being sent outside once with snow on the ground only wearing a pair of shorts.
I wasn't too keen on the cross country runs as we had to run through our neighbourhood to reach a field. You always had quite a few people looking at you, and yes the girls liked that.
Shame they stopped all that, it sure would toughen some of our teenagers up and instill a kind of gentle discipline.

Same for us in our school. We always had to be topless for PE and the girls enjoyed watching.

i attended a Grammar School in Hertfordshire in the 60s and it was the same for us. our games kit consisted of a pair of white shorts and a pair of white plimsolls. All PE, both indoors and outdoors, was performed shirtless. We were also barefooted indoors and outdoors on the playing field. We wore plimsolls for out door PE on the playground, and cross country runs were performed in the same way. This was the case all year rouns and in all weathers. I have to chuckle when I hear of modern schools either having no games/PE at all or reserving it for good weather.

Nice picture, taking me back to my PE lessons, which for us boys were always shirtless and probably much more demanding than today. We even did cross country runs in winter without tops being allowed.