Burnley Grammar School

Your personal view on how to treat sensitive boys Anthony, please.

I had a lot of trouble with my eldest son, then aged thirteen, thirty two years ago when it came to PE lessons at school. He struggled to adapt to the culture that comes with the transition to secondary school and various requirements at that time from his own teachers of PE, especially showers which he didn't like at all, but also the wish those teachers then had for a lot of classes to be taken bare chests. In his school the gym component of PE was generally taken this way. The final straw came in June 1993 when me and my partner turned up for his school sports afternoon to find he wasn't even in school and we didn't know where he was for about three hours. I remember the sports afternoon very well because most, if not all the boys we watched either doing gymnastics or races were in bare chests (they all looked nice by the way) and although he never admitted to the real reasons he was not at school that afternoon at the time I was strongly inclined to believe the PE dress code might have played some part with his unauthorised absence.

Trying to get answers out of my eldest was like hitting a brick wall, and so it was with the school too. It felt like they closed ranks to me and I was quite surprised how dismissive and unconcerned they were about things like showers/shirts off anxiety and how unwilling they were to confront issues with worried boys not turning up possibly because of these type of things, except to give them detentions or even a full suspension was threatened at one stage.

Within months of entering secondary school in 1992 my eldest changed from happy go lucky with good attendance to much more morose and absenteeism, much of it I connected to PE lessons.

Whether people like it or not, Anthony has every right to tell those in his class how to dress, doesn't he? Nobody would argue that he, or anyone else, makes boys wear shorts for PE would they, so why should it really make any difference when he says they can't put a top on in the gym. Bare legs fine, bare chest not, is that how it is?

It probably would be more comfortable in a cool school gym with shirts off in this weather we have now, but obviously it would be madness to send anyone outside for an hour just after lunch with a bare chest, even with sunscreen in my opinion.

I well remember being sent out on the school cross country in warm sunny weather and not enjoying it very much, it was uncomfortable even with our tops off and no sweaty fabric clinging to us. I always found the colder days running shirtless more acceptable or those with cloud cover. I even remember us getting caught in the rain a number of times.

Whatever I may have thought of something, especially in PE, I never took the view that any teacher who took us didn't have the right to inform us what he wanted from us, even if that meant telling us we were being sent out in bare chests in the cool and damp, or the hot and humid to run two or three miles.

I don't think current PE teachers would deliberately send their pupils out for runs on afternoons of 90 degrees nowadays, even with shirts, but I sure remember many PE lessons in my time where the class was pushed to the point of what must have been dehydration and heat exhaustion and there being a rush for the drinking fountain, unhygenic things, bottled water unheard of.

Charles, it is not for me to defend this teacher, but he actually wrote:-
"........Pupils are encouraged to bring a sunscreen with a SPF of 30 or more, preferably 50 for going outside in summer, even in tops, with the sun at its strongest. They will not be allowed outside on a sunny day in a bare chest unless they have applied protection first, including the face. ". It is indeed true that skin cancer is more likely to occur with people forced to go out in strong sunshine , as this teacher's pupils are. I repeat that you need Factor 50, not 30, according to current medical advice..

May I also remind you, Charles, that 1965 is now sixty years ago, and though children/young adults were treated as if they didn't matter in those days, we have moved on (one would hope), and show them more empathy and respect. and, also, there are all host of reasons why some lads feel uncomfortable being forced into nudity or near nudity. I have already explained mine, and have no intention of rehearsing them again.

I think you'd find it very hard to get a sunburn inside any school gym even with some sunlight coming down through the often high up windows. I'm sure the teacher here knows what he is doing and doesn't send boys out in the midday sun to burn to a crisp without coverage, but of course you can get a quick and easy sunburn, especially us whities with pale skin quite fast even on a much cooler day, and with wind, and even underwater. I'm always careful on my regular holidays to Portugal.

Don't forget that some boys will actually want to get outside without tops on in this weather, I always did and still do, and I don't suppose this teacher will refuse by the sound of it, as long as they cream up. There will be other teachers that probably refuse to allow boys any chance to be outside shirtless in strong sunshine, or at any time, even if they'd like to be.

As far as I'm concerned, and I'm a bit of an old codger now, this is the healthy way of things and it's the schools that don't shower, or even refuse to let their students shower and mothball such facilities, and demand they all cover up with this that and the other that create the greater issues.

If you've got a phobia or are just a bit uncomfortable with yourself the best way to begin the process of overcoming it is not to avoid it but face up to it head on.

I've got a couple of junior school grandsons at the moment a few years away from secondary education. If any of this comes up in the future for them when I no doubt ask them what they've got up to, I'd say embrace it and don't push back against it. I never had a problem with my own kids showering in school for PE and even if they had disliked it, I would have told them not to be so silly, all boys have the same things, we are all so very similar while al[ being different at the same time.

I was at a grammar school in the sixties, starting in '65, and we were expected to act like big boys even when we were little boys. It would have been unthinkable for anyone to even talk about "being forced" to be shirtless in the PE we did, or "being forced" to take the nude showers with one another. To complain about these things would have been seen as slightly immature I think, rightly or wrongly, but these really were the days of peak stiff British upper lip even for children who proved to be very resilient. My grammar school even made the younger ones swim in the school pool with nothing on, all of us who went swimming had to line up and walk through a shower with nothing on before we could jump in the school pool, and if you were the younger ones they didn't even bother with you going for your swimming trunks until you were fourteen. As a grammar kid of the sixties I found it quite liberating to have all the normal barriers removed like that.

Comment by: Anthony Hayman on 29th June 2025 at 21:39





".....I see nothing wrong with obliging the guys to either remove all top clothing for PE and conduct themselves in their bare chest, even less so in current conditions.

How could you not shower after working out in such heat and humidity, as far as I am concerned it would be completely wrong to send anyone off and away from PE without a shower, it's the right thing to do.......


........Pupils are encouraged to bring a sunscreen with a SPF of 30 or more, preferably 50 for going outside in summer, even in tops, with the sun at its strongest. They will not be allowed outside on a sunny day in a bare chest unless they have applied protection first, including the face. Sometimes baseball or even beanie hats are permitted outside.

Note: I'm known as Anthony or Ant, I've never been called Tony."


A tip for any of Mr. Hayman's pupils who don't want to run around half naked today. Just forget to bring your sunscreen boys!

You refer to showering again - as I have said countless times, I like showers, but I like to take them alone, and certainly NOT with somebody watching me while I do it, which is what so many teachers do.

The more you write, Anthony, the more convinced I am that you don't teach in a standard comprehensive school. I suggest it is either a private school or a public school. Am I right?. I did wonder why you and your colleagues needed to discuss the week ahead, when it appears you adhere to the same old, same old every week, but that is your affair. Parents who can afford shorts with crests on them and sunscreen are certainly not poor - where I live there are several food banks and I don't think school, sunscreen would be on on the list of essentials, and you need Factor 50 in the current heat, 30 isn't strong enough, according to dermatologists concerned about skin cancer. I have read newspaper articles addressed to holidaymakers, which suggests that a light coloured top be worn in hot weather - and the weather is at it's hottest during school hours, but we musn't let that interfere with tradition, must we?.

We all have our sensitivities, but I am lucky that name snobbery has never been one of mine. I was in a band where there was already an Alan, so I became Al. I didn't mind in the least - it sounds more friendly, and so to some people I am "Al", to this day. Embrace the informality, enjoy the friendliness implied. Even Anthony Blair, PM and now leader-man of a worldwide "Institute" said 'call me Tony'.

Comment by: Jeff on 28th June 2025 at 19:00
I'll add my name to those here who did cross country all year round in bare chests (except Dec/Jan/Feb unless unusually mild). I've seen so many comments coming from the 1970s that say the same, what was it about that time that got our sports teachers addicted to cross country like that. Normal everyday comprehensive school pupil, early to mid 70s.






Same here Jeff, except a different decade. I was in my senior school from 1959 until 1964 and my introduction to shirtless gymnastics came in 1959 and in 1960 we started regular shirtless group running around school grounds and a surprising number of boys ran along the grass barefoot too but that bit was personal choice, the shirtless part was not.

You said a lot that made sense there Mary and seemed to gain an understanding from a female viewpoint, possibly aided by what Simon W had said, but you ended with the following which may or may not have been an unintentional slap at some boys such as the Simon's, Alan and many others here of this world....

'which might have been hard to endure for the weaker ones.'

Weaker ones? Do you see sensitive boys as weak Mary?

I thought your comment was excellent but with a sting right at the end of it.

Many of the guys will probably be relieved to be able to leave the school uniform off and do PE in bare chests tomorrow at school, which is the intention of me and a couple of colleagues who have already spoken online via video on Microsoft Teams tonight about our week ahead, which includes a sports day outside on Friday.

I see nothing wrong with obliging the guys to either remove all top clothing for PE and conduct themselves in their bare chest, even less so in current conditions.

How could you not shower after working out in such heat and humidity, as far as I am concerned it would be completely wrong to send anyone off and away from PE without a shower, it's the right thing to do.

We have a little freezer in our office with ice packs in there, often used for minor sprains or injury if required. These are crushed ice with various sized plasticky bags or in block form. Once out of the freezer they can remain very cold and effective for an hour quite easily. I will take some out and anyone in heat discomfort or wishing to cool down will be able to place one across the back of the neck and shoulders for a few moments for cooling relief, or across the wrists is also a very effective method for rapid cooling relief too.

Bigger isn't always stronger. I've seen some very little guys who have a lot of strength and endurance and other larger boys with bigger arms and legs who lack strength that somewhat smaller boys have. Boys who are smaller, thinner and leaner than bigger boys should not allow themselves to have a complex about themselves. Many are equally capable and sometimes more so. Most boys, even the less assured ones, become openly more confident quite quickly even if they have reticence on maybe not having a top on because of their size.

Many boys surprise themselves in PE lessons, they are not as "useless" as they think they are at things once they get stuck in, especially if they have not tried something before. Some boys are more team players than others, that is human nature. The PE teacher will always like anyone who tries and puts in an effort.

Pupils are encouraged to bring a sunscreen with a SPF of 30 or more, preferably 50 for going outside in summer, even in tops, with the sun at its strongest. They will not be allowed outside on a sunny day in a bare chest unless they have applied protection first, including the face. Sometimes baseball or even beanie hats are permitted outside.

Awareness of conditions has changed a lot since the days of the 1960's and 70's type of PE in schools, but I'll certainly not apologise for PE done in bare chests or a shower being needed.

Note: I'm known as Anthony or Ant, I've never been called Tony.

Matthew when I was at primary school, as well as first school, there was no segregation at all between boys and girls when we had to change for PE. We all had to go into what was our reading room, a shared room all classes used, and change together with each other, right down to our underwear and then whatever we put back on. The boys and girls would just naturally group together with each other by gender even at a very young age. This didn't bother me because much of the time we took our normal school clothes off and as boys would just walk out to PE in our shorts, nothing on our bodies or feet anyway. I definitely became more funny about this as I got older, this arrangement finally stopped when I was ten.

To Simon W
Thanks for your thoughtful and personal reply — it really brings out the heart of what I was getting at. Back then, boys weren’t just allowed to strip down for PE — they were required to. Shirtless, barefoot, no underwear — that wasn’t a choice, it was rigorously enforced. And yes, I do think it acted as a form of discipline: a way of toughening boys up, instilling obedience, and pushing them to accept discomfort without complaint. Most boys did seem very much at ease, even proud — as if they'd adapted or were trying to show they could handle it — but that doesn’t mean it was easy for all. Some just internalised the discomfort because there was no way to opt out.

And yes, as girls, we did talk about it. There was banter — often light-hearted, but sometimes sharp — about who looked confident, who looked awkward, whose body had changed, who looked younger than the rest, who had the nicest chest. It was rarely directed at anyone in particular, but I can see now how those comments, even in passing, might have added to the pressure of some boys.

That kind of enforced near-nakedness, combined with the attention it drew, made PE a far more emotionally loaded experience for the boys. For them, it wasn’t just about sport — it was a social and psychological learning field, which might have been hard to endure for the weaker ones.

Alan I read that story this morning about government and healthy food. My immediate reaction to it was - What business is it of government to tell grocery retailers how to present their produce. I think they've forgotten what a government is meant to really be doing and it isn't about telling Sainsbury's and Tesco how to run their business. Worry about food price inflation instead of waistline inflation, adults are free to eat what they like and if they end up like a 'Fat Cow' that's their own fault. What happened to taking personal responsibility?

If you'd looked the size of a shot putter at my school you'd have never heard the end of it from our PE teachers who were quick to pull boys up on any sense of weight gain, but on the other hand I also remember one man who would look at some of us and mention lack of strength and our slight frames too. Is it any wonder boys looked in the mirror at themselves like you've said Seth.

Mark comments on 27th June that four-year-olds would be less likely than secondary school pupils to feel self-consciousness about doing PE bare-chested. That may well be so, but I felt considerable embarrassment about it at infant school (albeit which I eventually overcame).

I came across a book "Perspectives on School at Seven Years Old" by John Newson (1977, reprinted 2012), containing interviews with parents of young children at a time when minimal PE kit was more common, and real resistance to it from the children was evidently surprisingly widespread.

Quoting directly (page 74): "Other complaints refer to... having to get undressed for PE", "A remarkable number of complaints had to do with the child's modesty being threatened by faulty locks on the lavatory doors... and in particular being expected to show their pants or even change altogether for dancing and PE".

One mother of a boy at infant school, referring to PE: "...to get undressed and that - he's quite upset about that. The thought of taking his trousers off, and that's it".

There are other, similar comments in the book.

Comment by: Fat Cow on 28th June 2025 at 22:58

"We should have compulsory PE for adults!"

Don't give Streeting and Starmer any more ideas. Streeting wants supermarkets to make fruit more "attractive". I can't imagine even he knows what he means by that.

We already have far too many do's and don'ts in this country already, and if you are working most of us are fit enough already.

Comment by: Fat Cow on 28th June 2025 at 22:58
'We should have compulsory PE for adults!'


It's been suggested by one of us on here that we already do.

We should have compulsory PE for adults!

The only thing is Seth that you don't see those oversized shot putters doing it shirtless do you, so why did you, and it's like it with so many other sports I remember doing at school that no actual professional athlete does at a high level shirtless. On the size thing, if you were in PE looking huge like a shot putter you'd be considered overweight and out of shape but those people are clearly fit and able for their sport. I don't see the appeal of trying to throw what amounts to a heavy rock that never goes too far anyway and doesn't bounce. We did it a couple of times at school and then moved on to other more interesting things.

Nowadays if anything was out of action you wouldn't do it, so PE would be cancelled if the shower was faulty, or you'd just not do it, you wouldn't be getting a personal hose down from a teacher, I'm not sure what to make of that but private schools do have differing ways it looks like, except it looks like state sector or private, showering and shirtless was a common theme whatever you ended up at in the mid to latter 20th century.

I'll add my name to those here who did cross country all year round in bare chests (except Dec/Jan/Feb unless unusually mild). I've seen so many comments coming from the 1970s that say the same, what was it about that time that got our sports teachers addicted to cross country like that. Normal everyday comprehensive school pupil, early to mid 70s. A fully attended bare chested boys school gymnasium was also the norm, we trailed the school corridor past a couple of classes windows to get there. Privacy, none. Laughably even the boys showers had a non frosted window on ground level beside them, one of those wired fireproof glass designs but quite clear to see through. Can you believe that Gary. We used to hang towels across parts of the window to protect ourselves and hope the steam would do the rest. The girls area was well hidden.

Hi.

I was at private all boys school thirty years ago now. Our school did most of the things described here in 1995, the showers were a must to do and a no chance to escape out of. Shirtless PE was a frequent and common requirement from all our teachers, it was often hard to see why we did PE shirtless in one lesson and not another, but you had to be fully prepared to do PE shirtless without warning at a moments notice and adjust to it quickly and without any fuss at all, in or out.

Anthony is right, adolescent young males are obsessed with what they look like. I was obsessed about my own shirtless body and what others thought about it when it was time to be shirtless in PE lessons. I used to spend a lot of time in the mirror at home looking myself over just to reassure myself I looked as I thought I should.

I remember how we used to go out and do shot putting outside shirtless, and most of the boys at school were slim, some even quite scrawny characters with few packing any extra pounds they needed to lose. I used to think how different we looked throwing this big heavy ball, the 'shot' compared to the professional athletes who you would see do it in real competition, men and women, who were large rounded overweight and almost unhealthy looking figures. There was nobody remotely close to that type of body shape in PE at school.

We were never let off the shower lark, even when they were broken. The showers in our changing room were out of action for a week once and with a bit of ingenuity someone from PE got something that looked like a posh domestic garden hose with a spray on the end of it and plugged two of them into the taps on the sinks we had. The only problem was that it gave you either hot water or stone cold, nothing in between. We got the hot tap which wasn't too scalding. So rather than allow us to go without showers we had two PE teachers make us stand in front of them inside the communal showers area and spray us back and front one by one until the situation was fixed a week later. This happened twice to me. The PE teachers were so desperate to maintain showers in school PE they went to those lengths. I found it a little bit degrading to line up to be sprayed by a teacher and twist 360 degrees with my arms up even if it did last no more than 30 seconds. We thought it was both funny, weird, bad and rather naff at the time but school was always drilling into us that where there are problems there are always simple solutions, you could say that was one example.

As a general rule I cannot remember anyone suggesting a major worry over a shirtless PE requirement or the must take showers we had. I never thought I was shy about my body but I will admit I was always thinking about how I looked in front of people.

A great many people have commented on the double standards in mixed schools.

I worked in construction. The last new high school I worked on was in 2016.
The male changing rooms were still open plan, whereas the female lockers had partitioned showers and changing areas.

Comment by: Russ on 27th June 2025 at 22:59




"....Alan, thankyou for the reply earlier this week. Poor school buildings are no excuse for poor school teachers. For peaceable boys to be in such 'violent' schools must have been just grim........"

Thanks Russ. As I have got older, I can understand, to some extent, the attitude of our old teachers (except in two cases), they were older men, they saw newer and better schools in our area, and because ours had such a poor reputation and a very low budget, I suspect that if they tried for advancement elsewhere, their applications went to then back of the queue, so they felt embittered and took it out on us - most of them it was just verbal aggression and occasional flashes of anger - throwing the board eraser etc., and I suspect they really did feel defeated, and acted accordingly. It didn't feel that way at the time!, but most of us were well behaved and did our best, but we resented them and they resented us. It wouldn't have been my way, I played trumpet in some real dumps, but I put as much into my playing as I would have done at some upmarket venue, but I was much younger than they were. I felt then, as I do now, that all school students should be treated with respect and consideration, then they will respond in kind. I find it interesting that since schools, or some schools, still maintain rigid discipline till an increased age, pupil violence, truancy and disruption seems to be much higher.

Mark, Ronnie

My mistake - I meant to put quotation marks in, but I was composing my post on my phone, and with such a small screen it's a lot less convenient than on my computer.

Comment by: Andy on 27th June 2025 at 20:11

Long time no hear, Andrew!

If you engage in a public forum, as Tony chose to do, who says he is in the very profession that this forum is about, I don't think it unreasonable that you ask them to enlarge on their pronouncements, and that is all I am doing. Of course, if he chooses not to answer that is his prerogative. With all due respect, I don't think it appropriate that you volunteer to speak for him.

As adults we no longer have to be obsequious to schoolteachers and be unquestioning - don't you agree?

It's a discussion Andy. People can choose to respond or not, their choice.

Alan, thankyou for the reply earlier this week. Poor school buildings are no excuse for poor school teachers. For peaceable boys to be in such 'violent' schools must have been just grim, and you didn't even have your own school playing field for PE and had to borrow the nearby park in your area, and went there shirtless too. It never rained but it poured for you didn't it. I did compulsory full PE class shirtless cross country a number of times outside of school itself but that's not quite the same as a regular lesson taken elsewhere entirely.

Why the hell does any school teacher have to justify themselves to you Alan? How about you start by getting his damned name right too.

Keep up those shirtless gym lessons a soapy showers Anthony Hayman, you are doing the right thing even if it upsets the sensitivities of a tiny minority. It was always thus. Some of us just grew up faster.

Comment by: Ronnie on 26th June 2025 at 21:00
"Chris G, sorry about that, I see what I did now. I read everything and didn't notice part of it was where you were quoting Mary. I read that a couple of times and didn't notice."


When people are responding to a specific comment and paste it within their own it might be a good idea if it's placed in quotation marks, it does make it easier to notice whether it is an original comment or a response to something.



Comment by: Eddie on 26th June 2025 at 16:18
"MY INDOOR PHYSICAL EDUCATION YEARS.....1967 - 1979.
First infants school aged 4 - 8....BARE CHEST, BARE FEET, SHORTS.
Junior Middle, aged 8 - 11....BARE CHEST, BARE FEET, SHORTS.
Secondary Comprehensive, aged 11 - 16....BARE CHEST, PLIMSOLLS, SHORTS."


12 years of shirtless PE at school. It's fair to say you must have been very used to it long before you reached secondary school. At the young age you started I think no children would even care or think of it as anything and hardly any children at 4 or 5 years old are self conscious and think about what they look like without clothes on. It's a shame we all get older and pick up hang ups along the way, for whatever reason some are more prone to this than others.


Comment by: Neil on 25th June 2025 at 14:31
"That's a really good and thorough explanation of why the use of school showers after PE lessons was and is still in some places deemed necessary Anthony."


I have to reluctantly agree with you. Persuasive for sure from Anthony. It would have been quite nice to have had a PE teacher say those things to my class when I began secondary school and had to shower after PE, but all they did was set them going and tell you to get in them rather rapidly and warn anyone against trying not to. A nice explanation such as that would have felt more comforting I think and educated us to why we had to do it and the benefits it would bring.

Comment by: Anthony Hayman on 26th June 2025 at 20:49




".......I have never looked at bare chested PE as a negative. Adolescent boys are always very body aware, the modern media gives many of them unrealistic expectations about what is normal. Some boys are joining gyms at very young ages now to try and achieve what they see elsewhere beyond the school PE lesson."

Tony, I wonder if you have read many of the comments on here from men who were forced to go through the regime you inflict, forty or fifty years ago?. You will see how many were uncomfortable with it and remember it well into adulthood. Has it not crossed your mind that many boys today might feel just the same way? - especially if they happen to be homosexual and feel uncomfortable around naked men or boys.

You didn't answer my question: as you insist all boys shower after lessons, what would be the harm in allowing them to wear a tee shirt during lessons if they wished to do that?. Any of this amazing amount of sweat you suggest occurs in your lessons would be dealt with in the shower, and the offending tee shirts could go in with the Persil with all the other washing.

There is, in my opinion, far too much leeway given to the whims of P.E. teachers - just a few weeks ago we had a P.E. teacher on here who was quite relaxed about what boys wore in his gym, so I can;t see why they can't all be like that. Presumably he gets satisfactory results, I get the impression your school might be a private one or a grammar - with the crests on shorts and all that it sounds a bit high end. People who can afford to buy their sons shorts with crests on are clearly not on the bread line, so could afford a couple of tee shirts, if you are going to use expense as a get out. You might not regard bare chested P.E as a negative, but you can be sure some of your pupils do, even if they don't tell you so.

Chris G, sorry about that, I see what I did now. I read everything and didn't notice part of it was where you were quoting Mary. I read that a couple of times and didn't notice.

Simon W, how sad that you would go to the lengths of avoiding a birthday party invite just because there would be a pool there you didn't want to go in. Isn't it a shame that kids can't be honest with each other even if they are good friends.

I shower every day after work to the person who asked.

Physical education is about so many things, a healthy body, yes, but also a healthy mind too. Both go together. I find that self confidence grows best with the approach we foster, plus a good grounding in teamwork during PE as well as individual attainment.

I see no reason at all why a shower should not be undertaken or expected after a vigorous PE lesson. Generations of children have done this. Cleanliness is important and just being at school does not mean it should be overlooked, see my previous comment. Hot water even for a few moments is an excellent muscle soother after an hour of activity as well, so it's not just about being cleaned up.

I have never looked at bare chested PE as a negative. Adolescent boys are always very body aware, the modern media gives many of them unrealistic expectations about what is normal. Some boys are joining gyms at very young ages now to try and achieve what they see elsewhere beyond the school PE lesson.

MY INDOOR PHYSICAL EDUCATION YEARS.....1967 - 1979.

First infants school aged 4 - 8....BARE CHEST, BARE FEET, SHORTS.

Junior Middle, aged 8 - 11....BARE CHEST, BARE FEET, SHORTS.

Secondary Comprehensive, aged 11 - 16....BARE CHEST, PLIMSOLLS, SHORTS.


There's a common theme here isn't there!

The universality of it at this time is an interesting thing. Like you Simon I did a variety of sports days at all three schools without so much as a thread of fabric covering my upper body. I didn't mind, maybe others did, who knows.

Yes it is quite eye opening casting the mind back to notice if you landed up at certain schools you could end up going through your whole school time doing physical education inside various schools and none let you as a boy sling a top on once in a while. But they got me young so it was second nature to me, as a boy PE meant to me that I never wore a top and remained a bare chest and I completely accepted this was something I had to do.


Even outside we went shirtless from time to time, except in junior middle where I seem to recall we could wear a normal T-shirt and did so.

Swimming at school was considered a luxury and restricted to a few weeks per year only.

Comment by: Ronnie on 25th June 2025 at 20:03

I previously assumed you were a male Chris G.

I am! Don't know what might have made you think otherwise.

if you read back through my posting history you will see enough evidence of that. My secondary school PE CV went something like:

Years 1 - 2: Shorts, tops (vests or t-shirts or whatever)
Years 3 - 5: Shorts, bare chests (introduced with not very much notice, but generally received favourably.
Change of school
Years 6 - 8: navy rugby shorts, uniform white polo necked t-shirts (campaigns to permit voluntary topless repeatedly dismissed)

Note, these are are the years of my secondary education, not the currently used Year numbers ranging from R to 13.