Clitheroe Royal Grammar School

Jordan - in theory our white shorts were for indoor gym, outdoor games in the summer and cross country whilst our black shorts were for winter team games but one team was allowed to wear the white shorts for football with the other team in black. Some years previously football shirts were worn and presumably boys played shirts and skins but things had got better and fairer by the time I started at the school.
Any punishments for misdemeanours in p.e. were not p.e. related. The school wanted boys to enjoy p.e. rather than link exercise to punishment. This was, perhaps, a little advanced for the 60s but it worked as I'm sure most of us did enjoy p.e. partly, in my case at least, because of the limited kit rather than in spite of it.
There were very few fat kids in those days, certainly none in my class, so there seemed to be little reason for any-one to be ashamed of their bodies. I wasn't aware of any-one having a problem with not wearing a shirt - we were all treated the same so no-one had any reason to feel hard done by. Some took a little while to get used to running cross country barefoot but it made perfect sense and we all just got on with it.

Thanks everyone who replied to my question, some interesting responses! It seems like a general thumbs down for shirts and skins and the arguments in favour of making it the same kit for everyone make good sense. Funnily enough we did have white shorts for PE but black shorts for Games, so I suppose they could have tried that system at my school.
I'm intrigued by a couple of things. Bernard referred to 'making' boys wear tops when they presumably preferred not to.. I always saw it the other way round, more a case of making boys take their tops off! But I take John's point about a kind of 'tough love' from the PE teachers, certainly many of us felt nervous about being skins. Maybe being made to go bare chested forced us to confront our hang-ups about our bodies and ultimately become more confident young men.
At the same time, it sounds as if there was a strong element of discipline involved in the no-top policy, especially from David's description of punishment runs and exercises. To be honest this sounds pretty harsh to me! It's great that you clearly found it beneficial, but I can't help thinking there must have been other boys reduced to tears by this kind of treatment, especially in front of a mixed audience.

Jordan - like others I wore nothing but a pair of shorts for all p.e. inside and outside for all my time at secondary school and really enjoyed it. Outside we distinguished teams by wearing black or white shorts - this seemed fairer than making one team wear tops which few of us would have wanted.

I attended mixed middle and then mixed high school and both had a barechested policy for PE whatever the weather. Like a lot of posters we all ended an indoor gym session openly sweating and girls regularly saw lads with sweat on their chests/backs. Though it took me a couple of winters to get used to being outside on a freezing cold or rainy day stripped only to shorts by the time I turned 11 I started to see the benefits of being topless outside. In addition to PE/Games classes we were given punishment runs, laps of the field, to do. The offender was taken from a class, stripped and did laps barechested. Once these were completed it was regular to be given a number of press ups and sit ups to do with a PE teacher standing nearby to ensure you did them correctly,if you didn't you had to start all over again. The way the school was laid out the girls could easily see boys on the yard or field exercising barechested. I benefitted by becoming more confident showing my upper body off and by being pushed to sweat freely in the gym by PE teachers who would deliver a hard and tough lesson but made it enjoyable.

Having been to a school that did pe and xc stripped to only shorts, I would rather have this than some kind of half way like shirts v skins.

One rule for the whole school all of the time is better, as everyone knows where they are, what kit to bring, and for parents not to buy vests, trainers etc.

It was common to see boys out running from the school, so if you lived in the area, you knew the required kit, or lack of kit ! One of my parents friends who had a son a year away from the school asked about xc kit. When I said we just stripped down to shorts even in winter, he was pleased as he felt his lad needed that kind of discipline. Not sure his son felt the same on a freezing morning stood outside bare chested.

Jordan,
We were made to strip to the waist for indoor PE with no exceptions. Sometimes we’d all get changed into full football kit and head outdoors only to be told by the PE teacher “shirts off lads”, we were then given different coloured bibs to wear in order to distinguish teams. The PE teachers knew that some lads disliked being a ‘skin’ and thought that it was character forming and good discipline to make all lads play as a ‘skin’. Andrew C’s school had a really sensible rule to make lads wear either white or black shorts to distinguish teams. Everyone was worked hard and sweated a lot so there was no point in wearing a shirt, all lads being skins for indoor and outdoor PE is fair and a healthy and comfortable way to exercise.

Jordan, ours was the same as Robs. We knew before we started middle school at 9yr old the expectation was we would strip to the waist both indoors and outdoors regardless of the conditions or time of year. To identify teams we wore different colour shorts black or white depending on your surname began with an even or odd number. It was odd at first being stripped off outside but soon got used to it. We also sweated up inside and it and always ended the lessons with sweat running down backs and chests so it made sense not to have a vest on.

Jordan, it was mandatory for everyone at our boys school to be bare chested wearing just shorts for PE in the gym and outside for athletics and cross country running. I was not aware that anyone felt self conscious about this and there was no reason why anyone needed to wear a top. In the gym we were worked hard and glad that we wore nothing more than shorts when we were running with sweat and when we were outside we enjoyed the freedom and ability to feel the fresh air on our bodies. In the changing room afterwards we were naked in the mandatory communal showers. No problem.

Question for everyone who attended a school where it was mandatory for boys to do PE bare chested (and enjoyed it): what are your feelings about the practice of shirts and skins as we had for PE at my school? Do you feel it's a good thing on balance because every boy has to experience being 'skins' at some stage? Or is it counter productive because some boys may feel they've been singled out, having to dress differently from others?

Hi, I am glad you enjoyed the barefoot experience at school Ross.Interesting about New Zealand!

Frank, that's true or athletes foot, plus being barefoot helps with foot development and strong ankles. If we had to run in mud we didn't have to then carry around wet dirty plimsols all day only to have to clean them once at home, we just showered and away went the mud from our feet. Plus been given the chance to shed our school shoes and socks for an hour or three was really great! Let my feet breathe as my dad would say.

I believe barefoot PE in or out and cross country is still quite the norm in new Zealand such a shame it isn't anymore in uk.

One advantage of barefoot,P.E.and cross country was very few foot infections.Veruka etc

Sam,
I’m glad that you enjoyed barechested indoor PE and being worked hard, sorry to hear that you didn’t like exercising shirtless outdoors in winter. It was always great doing athletics and other sports shirtless in summer though. I found that I stayed warmer in winter doing cross country in the rain barechested than I would have done wearing a rain soaked top.
Lads need discipline and the shirtless PE rule definitely helped to keep us under control.

Andy / Bernard getting any foot injury never once crossed my mind when outside doing the xc barefoot the worst thing that happened was we all had muddy feet at the end of the run but this was easily fixed in the showers and so much better than carrying around muddy wet plimsols all day long.

Hi Toby S, during normal PE we did a lot of running and general fitness stuff - also things like small sided football and basketball in the gym. Outdoors we did cross country, Games lessons were separate. To answer your other question - I didn't mind going barechested in the gym after the initial shock had worn off. Outdoors though - judging by other posts there won't be many who agree! - I preferred to keep my vest on. Not that I was given the option, of course!

Hi Sam, I can see why you were surprised. What kind of activities did you do during your lessons and did you prefer doing PE barechests or with a vest on?

Andy - I'm glad you didn't mind bare feet for cross country - I don't think many boys did. Some think there would be a risk of injury but was never aware of any damaged feet and it was so much easier to clean muddy feet than muddy plimsolls.

Hi Toby S, I agree with your comment about how being barechested for PE helped to create better discipline. I remember noticing (and feeling) the contrast among my class when this happened under a PE teacher rather like the ones you described. Until then we'd done our PE lessons in a vest, shorts and plimsolls/trainers and it was all fairly easy going, a lot of boys just messing around and no one really seemed to mind if you weren't putting in much effort. It all changed at the start of my third year (when I was 13) when the new guy arrived and immediately made us all take our vests off and line up in the gym while he outlined the standards he demanded of us.
I just remember feeling shell shocked at first and part of that came from the feeling of being more exposed, I think. Most of us were taken aback when he made it clear our PE kit from then on would be shorts and footwear only unless he said otherwise. But there's no doubt we were better behaved and worked harder in PE with him in charge and I think being made to do lessons barechested was a key part of that.
This was 1980s by the way, so maybe more recent than most other contributors.

Hi Josh H, I know what you mean, our PE teachers were ex army, demanding but fair, if you put the effort in which we did. Personally I felt that stripping to the waist for PE/Games at school helped instil discipline. I went to a mixed school and it was inevitable girls would see us exercise barechested which was a very regular occurrence. Laps of the field, cross country and outdoor fitness sessions were always done stripped to the waist regardless of the conditions. It may sound harsh but it would quickly take the edge off them.

Toby S - back in the 1950s amd 60s, many kids didn't "choose" to wear a vest, they wore one when Mum told them to, which was generally always, except when the weather was abnormally hot! My own Mum and Dad were regular vest wearers throughout their lives, and Mum, in particular was keen to ensure that I followed their example, although from when I was 10 or 11, leaving my vest off for a month or two at the height of summer became acceptable, as did sleeping topless. As I've already said, the introduction of topless PE was the trigger to discarding vests permanently, despite Mum's concerns. When I moved on to a boarding school at 15, I found myself an object of mild curiosity, being the only boy in my dormitory who never wore a vest, even in winter.

Hi Chris G, I found it rather odd that boys chose to wear a vest, it was just something extra to take off and hang on the peg and seemed rather pointless. By the time most boys turned 13 most had discarded their vests altogether. I started sleeping topless in March just a few days after my birthday. It was cold to start with but was okay and my first winter sleeping topless was cold but then so were PE/Games both in the gym which was kept cold by the PE teachers and outside so I was used to that. It didn't bother my elder sister she saw it as a natural extension what with PE/Games lessons and my parents enthusiasm for me to strip off as much as possible, an example being shovelling coal into the coal house was always done barechested.

In reply Toby S, I attended an all boys school 1961 to 1966.The P.E. teacher was strict and no one questioned shorts no pants and no top. The old fashioned plimsolls and no socks. That was it. It seems that only an more recent years that the softer options have become the nornm. I know everyone says it but it does seem that the teachers look so young. In my era they were all male and most of them had not long finished national service or served in World War 2. So there was no messing. But respect.

Toby S, how did you feel about not wearing a vest and sleeping topless? Although I spent a few summers without vests it was not until topless PE was introduced at school when I was about 13 that I stopped wearing them altogether, and I had to work hard at persuading Mum that I wasn't going to die of hypothermia as a result. In contrast, it was Mum who actually suggested that I might like to leave my PJ top off in hot weather when I was about 11, and by 13 I was sleeping topless all year round

Josh H, You have a valid point. My parents were all for me being barechested as much as possible. Neither approved of wearing a vest so I didn't and was told by my dad I was to stop wearing a top for bed. It was normal to be stripped to the waist for all PE/Games which, I think helped boys find their own identity. I don't know if you attended a mixed school like me but we got used to girls watching us exercise indoors and outside stripped to the waist from the age of 9 to 18. I doubt it gets more masculine than that.

Ross

At first I found having just shorts on for xc very strange, but, of course, we did as told or got punished.

I got used to it, and in summer it was fine. On a freezing winters day, running stripped to the waist was not good, but the whole class had to do the same, in fact the whole school had to in their xc lessons. Bare feet I didn’t mind, once I got used to it

When I told my parents, my mum thought I should be allowed to wear a top, while my dad thought it would do me good. In fact I was lucky not to be caned for being so soft, and in his day boys got caned properly not on shorts.

My old school did use the cane, but not anything like as much as the new one. Couple of weeks in, 2 classmates got caned. In pe I saw the results, 4 vivid red/purple welts across their backsides, and saw that it hurt them to pull their shorts on. Soon I was to find out what it felt like for real, and on pe shorts, not trousers, as 4 of us got caught smoking during xc and had to do a punishment gym session and run after school. At the end of this we all got 6 strokes of the cane, so I had 6 welts not 4 !

We always did cross country stripped to the waist. It was great after being in a stuffy classroom to have rain or the cold air against your bare chest/back. We always had plimmies on though.

Andy how did that first shirtless and barefoot run feel? Did you enjoy it or learn to like running that way? I always found running barefoot and shirtless quite refreshing and invigorating even in the rain as long as you kept moving that is. Plus I wasn't bogged down with a heavy wet shirt or plimsols

I know that I am moving away from the idea of the original postings re P.E. and I apologise but I would like to make the following observations.
Tom B: I agree with your latest posting and I think what is missing form some of these young lives is a father figure, or male role model.
Bernard: I also agree with your comments. Let boys be boys. There is too much of the softly softly approach today.

I changed schools at 13.

The old one had full pe kit indoors, and pe shorts, rugby shirt, socks and trainers for cross country. Cross country didn’t take place in very bad weather.

Indoor pe in my new school was just shorts, which was strange but ok, then a couple of days later we had cross country. It was cold and pouring with rain, and while I brought kit I expected it to be cancelled. My classmates soon put mr right, and we all turned up at the gym to change. Soon I realised other boys were ready, but were stripped to the waist and had nothing on their feet. One of my new mates said take your rugby shirt off, we just run in shorts, that’s all. I looked around and realised it was bare feet as well. Hurry up my mate said waiting for me, or we’ll both get caned. I rapidly stripped the top and plimsolls off, and went outside, rain pouring down my bare back

Tom - I think you have a very good point. This also shows the extent of the damage done by the so-called feminists. We really need to get back to letting boys be boys.