Burnley Grammar School

Hi Louise,

No, she didn't relent. I didn't have much of a choice other than to remain topless until late on in yr 9. It wasn't much fun but it did stop me being picked on as much which was good.

Claire

Archie, what kind of school was this where you had to swim naked?

Willy, I have absolutely no idea why we had to wear them instead of swim briefs. The reason can't have been cost or availability since briefs weren't expensive and were available in most shops and were much more comfortable. I think it was mainly because it was a tradition that the school wanted to keep. The slips were provided by the school. It's just something that was part of the required kit. They covered everything that briefs cover.

The problem with these slips was that in order to avoid any risk of them falling off we tied them quite tight, which made them hard to take off after a lesson if they became knotted.

Our teachers wore the sort of Slips that are being talked about - basically a g string made from cotton- whilst we boys were naked.

My father also had one he wore when he took me swimming to a private swimming baths that he was a member of. Suspect the design was linked to post war rationing!

Hi Geraald and Turner, I never heard of these swimming slips, looks like something from the Victorian era.
What was the sense in wearing these slips which had to be tied with strings and not just wear plain briefs?
Were they supplied by the school or were they part of the school kit?
I imagine they just barely covered the front part and back.

I remember wearing the slips that Turner mentioned.

They were essentially a briefs-like garment that you had to tie at the side. They weren't very comfortable and were either uncomfortably tight or dangerously loose depending on how you tied them.

Boys' boarding school in the 1960s. Twice daily showers in a communal shower room with 60 other kids supervised by a teacher; twice weekly swimming lessons no trunks until 5th form (now year 11). At scouts we were permitted to use the pool and gym in a local army base. Afterwards we all showered together while the scoutmaster "supervised".
Our teachers and parents had all gone through the war you weren't about to complain to them about it and as for the scout master we knew what was going on but he only looked and we regarded it as a quid pro quo for using the facilities. We kids were fairly hard nosed in those days.

Hi Claire

So did you continue doing your PE lessons without a top until tr9 or did your teacher relent before then?

What else did you wear for PE: shorts, gym knickers etc?

Louise

Andy,
It was an all boys school and all the boys wore slips for swimming from 11 to 16.
It was considered a normal practice to wear slips,so it was not too embarrassing or humiliating when teachers or other school staff attended our swim classes,but could be when visitors attended and we could be seen through the viewing window.

Hi Jim,
Our secondary school was all girls, so all our PE teachers were female.

At primary school PE wasn't topless or in underwear but boys and girls did have to change in the same classroom. Mostly this was supervised by our class teacher, who was female but occasionally it was done by a male teacher.

James,
Was it a boys only or mixed school?
When you say it was for all ages throughout the school, what were the actual ages, since it obviously depended on the type of school.
Were there any particular times when it was especially more embarrassing and humiliating, such if you had other teachers or school staff or visitors present during your swim classes?

Willy,sorry about the spelling error,I meant cords and we were made to wear them.

Hi Willy,we used to wear slips for swimming at all ages through school.
The slip that I wore was a sliver of nylon attached to chords
to keep it in place.
No,we were not given a reason why we were made to them instead of normal swimming trunks,it was a requisite for swimming lessons.
Yes,I did feel embarrassed and humiliated when having to those flimsy slips,while other boys were quite brazen and arrogant.

Sorry Gerald for the late response.
1) I did not know of any schools at the time that swam without trunks. The school I went to was quite isolated and I didn't know anyone who went to other schools nearby. Our school was one of the last to have done nude swimming.
2) Our teacher was indifferent. He didn't seem to like or dislike the policy but he did his job as he was told to by the headteacher and heads of department, who only later ruled that we should do swimming with trunks.
3) eventually the school banned it because it just became very outdated. No one saw any reason to continue the policy. I think they should have stopped it earlier.

Hi James, at what ages were the boys in your school made to wear these flimsy slips?

Were they made of nylon or cotton?

Did they ever give a reason why the boys were made to wear these slips instead of normal swim trunks?

Did you or the other boys feel embarrassed or humiliated by being made to wear these slips for swimming lessons?

Hi Jim, We never had a male teacher it was an all girls school. It was hard enough going topless with just female groups. Girls can tease just as much as boys.

Willy,
I remember wearing the slips that were mentioned and they were also tied at the hip to keep them in place.
I don't recall any'malfunctions'and they were quite comfortable to wear,albeit they were very minuscule.

Willy

It was boys only. I did not attend this school but came across the kit list so wondered whether anyone had experience of these slips that tie at the side. What did they feel like? Did they malfunction e.g. come untied or become knotted so you couldn't get them off?

Turner, was this a boys only or mixed school?
I presume that these slips were only mandated for boys during swimming at the school.
I guess that some schools really stuck to tradition, but at least a tiny nylon or cotton slip was a step up from complete nudity which was common in many schools for boys at the time for swimming lessons.

King Edward VII Grammar School Sheffield Sept 1961 P.E. requirements:-
P.T.: black shorts and gym shoes.
Swimming: non-swimmers - white cotton slips, triangular, with tapes to fasten at the side.
swimmers - blue nylon or cotton slips.
These should be contained in a polythene or waterproof bag, as there are no drying facilities at the School.
Were these slips like the German Dreiecksbadehose? I thought they had been replaced by trunks with elasticated waistbands in the 1940s or 50s.

Did you girls ever do PE in just underwear or topless with a male teacher?

Claire & Louise,
I can remember my sister telling me that my niece hated wearing a vest once some of her friends had started to wear bras, so even though she was still flat chested at that point Sis bought her some crop tops so she wouldn't feel left out.

When I was that age in the early 1970's there were no such things as crop tops (or sports bras). Until we were sufficiently developed for a 'teen bra' (a scaled down version of what our mothers wore), we wore vests or nothing under our shirts - just like the boys. Getting your first bra was a sort of rite of passage (which some girls looked forward to, but others didn't!).

Hi Louise,

Up to yr7 it was just a standard vest and after yr7 a sports bra.
My simple problem was I didn't start to show until towards the end of yr9. To be honest, I was apprehensive about going topless in the gym but being average build I felt it was the only option. One thing that did ease off were the ribbings, they stopped after a couple of months which was a huge relief.

Hi Claire

No way did girls have it easy! I think we've proved that!

Up to yr7 was it your underwear vest that you had to wear for PE? From yr7 was it just your regular bra or did the other girls bring sports bras to wear? How did you feel having to go into the gym topleas - I bet it was worse being the only one like that. What else did you wear in the gym?

Louise

Louise,

Poor you! PE lessons were an endurance test for me. Our kit on top was supposed to be a vest up to yr7 then just a bra. I was still flat chested at that stage and was told by the teacher to either wear a vest, and be the only one to do so, or go into the gym topless. I was ribbed enough as it was so topless was the only option. Who says girls had it easy?

Louise,

I agree with Rob, that sounds awful. We were allowed just to wash ourselves in one of the sinks if we didn't want to use the shower at that time of the month.

As for making that poor year 9 girl do gymnastics topless, that must have been so embarrassing her! Even in year 7 some of my classmates definitely needed their bras and as far as I can recall pretty much all of us wore them by the end of year 8.

Louise, that's terrible, I feel so sorry for you. They shouldn't have been allowed to treat girls like that. it must have been really embarrassing for you and the memory has stayed with you ever since. Boys should consider themselves lucky; they have nothing to get embarrassed about when they are in the showers.

Rob - I think it was quite harsh making us shower even on our periods. But I can see that we were just as sweaty or muddy as the rest of the class so did need to freshen up somehow. For a lot of girls it wasn't too obvious but you're right about those with very heavy periods. I remember one lesson where I felt so weak and afterwards in the shower it was pretty messy and unpleasant.

Andrea - yes, in yr8 upwards if we forgot our kit we did it in a bra as well as our pants. For some girls that couldn't come a day too soon! I remember a girl who joined us at the start of yr9 who didn't have a PE kit. For some reason she didn't have a bra either so had to do gymnastics wearing just a pair of pants!

Following the comments by T & William in my era at secondary school, ie 1961 to 1966, it was not that long since ww2 had ended and National Service finished I think about 1963. Therefore in an all male school with all male teachers most of these had served in the war or national service as had our fathers they had experienced communal changing in military accommodation and to them it was just the norm. Furthermore it is only recently that changing arrangements had altered in swimming pools. I remember certainly up to a few years ago the changing facilities at swimming pools were segregated by gender and although there were a few cubicles generally all males changed in an open area and we were quite used to this arrangement so a changing room for pe at school seemed no different. Nowadays we have mixed changing villages, the trouble being at our local pool when busy there are not enough facilities which means having to wait and when you come out of the pool you are hanging around getting cold waiting for a vacant cubicle whereas previously in an all male environment you could just come out of the pool go the changing area and get changed.
Have we become to inhibited?

RobinC, did you know of any other schools that only recently stopped this practice? Fifteen years ago is quite recent. Were you okay with it? was your teacher ( a man I presume!) supportive of the policy or did he aim to stop it? And why did your school decide to ban the practice?