Burnley Grammar School

I am a little bit confused here by Mathews comments, it seems that it was Dave who was seeking information about the mixed nude swimming that Martin mentioned. I had a look at the facebook links that Martin gave and they certinly did seem tohave mixed nude swimming at his old junior school and there are lots of people who remember it. I think it maybe wasn't such a big deal back then, my little brother didn't think there was anything wrong with not wearing any pants when he was at cubs.

These comments bring back many memories. At my all boys prep school in the 1970's, it was the norm that you did swimming in the nude, no question. This had been going on for years and went on until the 1980's. I only started at the school when i was 10 and it was a slight shock to do swimming in the nude but I soon got used to it. It also gave the pe teacher the perfect opportunity to inflict a sharp cane to the bare backside which always left a red mark.

Have you not read Dave's perfectly clear explanation below about exactly when swimming took place and whether it was obligatory to wear a costume? If you have I can only conclude that you have a gratuitous and unhealthy interest in this topic.

Hi Dave, Let me clarify....
I went to Shears Green Primary in Kent, a mixed County Primary school in the South East UK.
They had nude swimming between about the late 1960's until (I think) about 1988. Nude swimming was ALWAYS voluntary and was in extra lunchtime and Saturday sessions but NOT in regular planned swimming lessons, (we HAD to wear swimwear for them!) Nude swimming was open to all, from 7 to 11 years old and when I was there it was girls on monday lunchtime, boys on friday lunchtime and mixed (boys and girls) on wednesday lunchtime. For the same-sex sessions I think we just had to turn up, I don't think we needed our parents permission, but we needed their permission for the 'mixed' nude swimming (not every week, we only needed to get the form signed once!) Saturday morning was 'clothing optional', ANYONE could go and it was up to us whether we wore our swimwear or swam nude.
This was the ONLY school I attended (or taught at) with nude swimming, as I have already stated mixed nude swimming must have been incredibly rare although apparently it wasn't unusual for boys to swim nude at prep and private schools.
I have included a couple of facebook, friends reunited links so you can look for yourself and read the comments from the very large number of kids who took part over the years!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/445297598902917/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2232710443/ http://www.friendsreunited.com/shears-green-county-junior-school/Discuss/9b5c582f-4f9b-40f0-9be8-8695265ccc0c

Martin, are you saying that all the primary schools you went to and taught at as a teacher all had mixed nude swimming?
Do any of these schools have a Friends Reunited site? I bet they have a lot of old memories to talk about.
I know there were some schools which had obligatory nude swimming for boys, maybe for girls also, but never heard of mixed nude swimming at school.
Were the other schools the same as the one you mentioned, that is voluntary and optional swimsuit, or obligatory nudity?

to Mathew: I agree with most of what you say, however I will have to disagree on a couple of points, I went to a number of different Primary and Secondary schools over the years and later taught in a couple of secondary schools. In all the primary schools and in one of the secondary schools swimming lessons were mixed, it really wasn't as rare as you seem to think! At primary school (Shears Green) we swam nude, (look it up!) the lessons were mixed but it was only in optional sessions at dinnertime and saturday morning, and you needed your parents permission, regular 'class' swimming lessons where done in swimwear. Nude swimming was not common in state schools, but it certainly was in the 'public' school sector, although usually in boys only schools, (both junior and senior) there is ample evidence of this, I suspect the likelyhood of nude swimming lessons above the age of 11 being supervised by female teachers is highly questionable!

To Dave: It was boys and girls nude swimming on wednesdays dinnertime and on saturday morning (and everyone swam nude) girls only on Monday dinnertime and boys only on friday dinnertime. It was an extra-curricula activity and was NOT compulsory, for the mixed sessions we needed our parents permission, but I don't think it was required for the same-sex sessions. This was at Primary school so all the kids were between 7 and 11½. This had started in the late 1960's and apparently went on until the mid 1980's, when I was there the mixed nude sessions were very popular and were well attended by both boys and girls. I suspect that mixed nude swimming like this was VERY rare, even at Primary school level, I only know of 3 other schools in the UK that allowed it!

That must have not been very nice for your brother, Theresa. How would he respond?

Martin,

Could you make things a bit more clear?
You said they were nude mixed swimming lessons at school. Was it both boys and girls in the nude, or boys only?

Was the nudity compulsary or optional?

Let's get some facts straight. In the majority of schools, primary and secondary, from 1946 onwards, swimming lessons were single sex only. Further, nude swimming was very rare. Likewise this obsession with boys wearing or not wearing underpants has become ridiculous. Almost all schools wore just shorts indoors and full sport's kit out doors. This is based on practice in several school from 1946 to 1960. Many commentators here are showing an unhealthy interest in this site and perhaps would find more satisfaction on another site.

My brother and I were in school about 30 years ago, and yes, it was in England. The other girls certainly did tease the boys, and while the boys tried to appear confident, it was obvious that they all felt slightly exposed. The girls were interested in the boys bodies, but where interested in teasing them just as much. Outside in winter, boys did PE separately, and I can't remember what the boys wore. The girls normally wore tracksuit-like trousers, shirts and jumpers. In the Summer, girls wore shorts and blouses, and boys wore shorts and sleeveless vests.

Theresa
What period are we talking about here? Recently?
You say you teased your brother. Did other girls tease the boys? What was the boys' reaction?
Were the girls really that interested in the boys bodies and what did each gender wear outside?

Hi Theresa!

Was it England? I've thought they have single sex PE lessons a secondary schools.

Yes, mixed nude swimming lessons at my Primary school were for real, with crowds of boys and girls up to the age of 11, swimming together stark-naked twice a week! We also had boys only and girls only nude swimming lessons every week as well, I always went to the mixed sessions and I also went to the boys only sessions with my friends on fridays.
Shears Green Primary School in Kent, look it up on fb or friends reunited!

You think THAT would cause an outcry these days? I remember taking a letter home from Primary School when I was about 9 asking my parents for permission for me to swim naked in the mixed nude swimming lessons we had twice a week at school! Imagine how that would go down these days!!! As I recall, almost everyone who asked to go to these sessions managed to get their parents permission, most of the boys in my class wanted to go and I think we all managed to get it 'signed off' by our mums!

I remember when I went to secondary school with my twin brother. Gym was mixed and while we girls wore shirts and gym knickers, which were really just tight shorts, boys wore just shorts, with no shirt. He was a shy boy, and I always teased him about it, by telling him about my friends' opinions of his body and constantly commenting on his physical development.

Reading the last person's comments you can imagine the outcry if a teacher pulled out the back of a pupil's shorts these days.

However, I suppose this wowukd not apply as I suppose that underwear is worn. Possibly jockstraps are worn because the modern boxer shorts which I think most lads wear would give no support.

I have read with interest the posts about the wearing of PE kit, I would add my experience at an all boys senior school between 1959-1964, we had blue rough cotton PE shorts, no underwear and always a quick underwear check in the changing room, the teacher pulled the back of your shorts away to check, if we were in the gym it was barefoot and bare chests, like the boys in the picture, if we had PE outside we wore white plimsolls and a white vest, if there were team games, one team went bare chested.

Another thing we had were compulsory medical examinations at age 11 and then at 13, the leaving age being 15. These examinations were always done prior to PE lessons, so we were just in shorts and lined up against the wall waiting to go in individually in the large gym storeroom converted temporarily for physical examination days, inside was a desk where a nurse sat and checked you in then did the eye and hearing tests and then you waited until the boy in front of you had been examined by the doctor behind a curtained off area, so there was a steady stream of boys getting examined.

If anyone would like a bit of a comprehensive description of the PE activities we did or the medical exam, or have any memories from their school days then feel free to email me at stuartbeech65@gmail.com

In answer to Benny, I am sure this was often the case at Primary school level, but I think it pretty unlikely it happened at Secondary school (ie age 12 and above)however back when I was younger I think relativly few Primary schools would have had 'proper' changing rooms and showers anyway, most kids changed in the toilets, cloakrooms or in their classrooms. As I stated before, my younger brother was in the Cubs when he was at Primary school, in a Pack where all the leaders were female. When they were on camps or sleepovers, my brother said they had to get undressed and ready for bed after flagdown, but before they had their supper, which I am guessing was probably about 7:00, they all had to wear a pyjama 'top' or a t-shirt but they weren't allowed to wear any pants, he said that after supper they all ran around the camp with bare 'willies' playing games for a couple of hours before they went to bed! I used to tease him and his friends about going 'bare' at camp and the leaders seeing them like that, but they seemed very unconcerned! I don't think kids that age (8-11) are too bothered, or they weren't in those days!

I response to Garry's comments, did your wife say what she wore for pe class?

Talking about compulsary group showers after PE, a friend once told me that at his primary school it was usually their class female teacher who supervised the boys during their showers after PE. Was this common in some schools in England?

I agree with James. As I suggested in my comments on 2nd Dec. I think boys have become too soft hiding behind towels in changing rooms in case they are seen naked. We certainl;y had no concerns, yet they have no inhibitions in wearing low slung trousers advertising their fashionable boxers.

It's interesting to hear how things were for girls. Vest and knickers sound good to me - at a boys school we never saw them! My wife says she never had communal showers - the girls had shower cubicles or didn't bother till they got home. When I first started going out with her and she came to watch me playing football and was amazed that we all showered together afterwards.

Sorry, that reply should have been to MARK, not MARTIN as it was Mark that was questioning the need to wear pyjamas, I am inclined to agree with him!

In reply to Martin: My younger brother was in the Cubs when he was at primary school, in a cub pack that was based at the school. There was about 30 of them in cubs but it was all boys in those days, the leaders were all female, a teacher and a couple of 'mums'. They used to go to camp a couple of times a year and sometimes had 'sleepovers' in the gym on fridays after cubs. It was no secret that the pack had a pyjama 'tops' only rule at bedtime and that they weren't allowed to wear anything from the waist down, everyone at school knew! I have absolutely no idea why they had that rule but apparently it had always been like that! I used to tease my brother about it but he always said he wasn't bothered! That was in the 1970's.

This is just how I remember PE, it was great fun and I used to really look forward to the classes. We used to have two double lessons and also a compulsory lunch time session and those days were the best, somehow it was easier to work in class on other things when we'd done gym, had a good run or played rugby.

I'm not saying it was all easy, it wasn't and high standards were set in terms of timing and effort and also sportsmanship, not something you hear much about these days. Not trying hard enough or fooling around got the slipper or if it was serious the cane. The slipper was usually given there and then in the gym, the cane was 'saved' until the end of the lesson to give you 'something to look forward to' and given in private on your bare bottom. Every boy including me who left that office after getting the cane did so in tears.

Like I think everyone else posting, underpants were not allowed and we always had cold, communal, compulsory showers after each class. No body minded, it's how it was and I look back on it all as great fun.

Sometimes these days when I see younger lads dancing behind their towels in the gym changing room I really do wonder what they are trying to hide. Are lads today too soft?

I just found it weird that my boarding school had opted for a shirtless PE kit, naked showers after PE, and on the other hand we had to wear a full set of pyjamas to bed ! Maybe someone can explain the logic of this ?

During my time at secondary school (1967-74) we weren't allowed to wear our ordinary underwear for PE and showers were compulsory. For the first couple of years we all went commando but later on we were advised that some support was necessary. A few bought the Litesome supporters recommended, but most of us just wore our swimming trunks under our shorts

It is interesting reading how things were in other schools. At my primary the boys wore their white pe shorts. No top. In fact I never did pe from ages 5-17 wearing a top. Girls at primary wore their vest and regulation navy blue knickers. I cannot recall any ever going topless. As noted previously, topless or even in a vest would not be tolerated these days. I spoke to my wife about her experiences. She confirmed that she too did primary school pe in vest and knickers. When she went to the girls only senior secondary school the vest and knickers were the usual kit for girls in the early years. As a girl developed then they started to wear an Airtex blouse over their bra. They wore the regulation knickers all the way through school. My wife was 13 1/2 before she wore a bra,so did pe until then in a vest. She says that she never thought anything about it.

There was never any suggestion of nude swimming though-they all had standard navy school costume.

During my time at secondary school up to 1966 when we when all our class were 16 years old there was never any mention of Jockstraps & we were not told to buy them. Consequently everything hung loose during PE & games & no boxes for Cricket either & we survived

BTW: in addition to my other comments, Shears Green Junior School in Kent is still going strong and STILL has the same indoor swimming pool! (I saw the photo, how many memories it brings back!) They have a very nice website for the school these days, however boys and girls doing swimming lessons completely naked and everyone doing PE and country dancing 'topless' with none of us (including the girls) allowed to wear anything except a single very thin pair of shorts, is unfortunately very much a thing of the past having died out in the late 1980's or the early 90's when Mr Hale retired as Headteacher! Bit sad really!