Burnley Grammar School

To answer Toby's question - yes, some boys were definitely singled out to do PE shirtless more often than others. There was one friend of mine who almost always seemed to be picked for skins, I have no idea why. But at some stage every boy had to strip down and I think we mostly just accepted that.

In reply to Pete, there was some discussion about this on Mumsnet a few years ago. One mum was concerned that when her daughter started school (at 4.5 years old), both boys and girls were expected to do PE in vest and pants. Views were mixed as to whether this was appropriate or not even at that age.

When I was at Primary School we wore T shirts and shorts or skirts for PE, but boys and girls all had to change in the same classroom. By the time my son went to Primary School, the girls and boys went to different areas to change from the age of about 8 onwards.

Hi Alf, The boys at school were aged from 9 to 18 but PE lessons were always single sex. The gym had large windows to let the light in so we could see everything. The classrooms overlooked the yard and field so we could easily see them strip. We had those horrible aetex tops and black pe knickers.

Claire, what ages are you talking about and was it mixed PE for both boys and girls?
What did the girls wear for PE?

I went to a boys only secondary and no one was made to take off their vests except for showers afterwards which were voluntary. Did you or the boys have compulsary showers after PE?

I enjoyed seeing boys being made to remove their vests at the start and it was common to see them coming out of the gym glistening with sweat. I know I had my favourites who I'd love to see bare top and more often than not they were. Interesting thread.

Oliver, did you find some were picked to strip more often than others did. I was nearly always picked to to remove my vest. I wonder if others found this to be the norm?

Are there any schools left who make both boys and girls do PE in just underpants?
Although not at my school this seems to have been common in many primary schools up to age 11 or so.

It was of interest to hear of the the local authorities enforcing shirtless P.E.lessons.I attended an independent school and it was more late sixties to mid seventies,so safety issue weren't at the top of the agenda then, we didn't even have goggles for chemistry experiments!Exe

Many Local Educatiom Authorities in the UK had shirtless for boys PE policies in the 1970s and 80s, these were adopted to keep boys safe; in response to serious accidents that had been attributed to boys tops falling over their heads whilst using wall bars, vaults etc.

The changing of the clocks this weekend reminds me that one Outdoor Centre in the N of England apparently insisted on shorts for all outdoor activities (fell walking, camping etc.) during the period of BST.

Other points - there was an accident at one school some years back caused by loose clothing getting caught in equipment - the school immediately went to shirtless for boys.

Swimming in the nude - I think this was simply a hangover from olden times - no more - no less.

Andrea - I was told recently of a mixed swimming class in a Jnior school where some of the boys introduced frogs into the pool & girls changing areas.

Happy Days!

John raised an important point about safety in the gym environment.Particularly with ropes and the wooden equipment.

My school gym was almost always freezing cold and I hated going in there wearing only white PE shorts and vest. But, the PE teacher made us work so hard that soon we were actually thankful that the temperature was so low.

Due to his relentless demands for ever more effort, I used to get so hot that whenever I had the opportunity, I positioned myself under the chilly down draughts from the huge glass windows.

Although we all entered the gym wearing vests, these were soon voluntarily discarded. By the end of the lesson the wall bars were draped with them.

Maybe I should be grateful I didn't go to your school Toby! One cold muddy barechested jog around the field was enough for me...

Oliver, that's something I'd never thought of. I wasn't mischievous but for some reason was always picked to strip down all the time. Laps of the field were always done without a top regardless of the weather. I got to know the field pretty well over the years.

Toby, that does sound illogical but I imagine it was partly a means of emphasising discipline. It was similar at my school where you'd put your vest on, along with the rest of your PE kit, knowing there was a fair chance you'd have to remove it within minutes. More often than not the class would be divided into skins vs vests in the gym. But the PE teachers often used shirtlessness as a punitive measure too - I experienced that once when I had to take my top off and run laps of the playing field. No reason for it, other than to make a boy feel small and emphasise who was in charge.

JP1, Our gym was deliberately kept cold so we'd have to work hard. When we stripped down you really felt the cold on your bare top. It was no worse than when we did gym/games lessons outdoors though. The part I didn't get was why we went in the gym in vests just to strip off when the lesson started, it was the same outdoors.

JP1 when having to do pe in your underpants was it the era when lads wore briefs. At least there would be more support then if wearing the modern boxers

Oh I don't think there was anything wrong with it, most of the boys probably preferred it or didn't care if their shirts were off, just that I was quite self conscious to have my top half bare as I was very skinny and shy. And cold! The gym was very chilly. So I didn't especially enjoy having to be stripped the waist, especially if only half of the class had to.

What was wrong with boys being stripped to the waist anyway?, it was much safer when using wall bars and vaults etc. Our school gym was heated in winter and we always got hot and sweaty, so it was better not having to wear a top.

Your description of P.E. lessons is very vivid and atmospheric JP1! I tried a backward roll and ended up in A & E when I was thirteen!Ouch!

Thanks for the answers. There was a lot of variation between schools.
Our lessons similarly started with a warmup workout: star jumps, knees ups, sit ups, stretches. I hated the cold gym floor on my bare back if I had been picked to do the class with my shirt off, literal shivers on my spine. Normally only half the boys had to strip to their waists, for teams as shirts and skins, and this was chosen at the roll call at the start, before warm ups. But when the lesson had to be vaults, ropes, bars and the like, then every boy had to be topless.
I didn't so much enjoy my barechestedness, it felt too naked and cold, but we got to be OK like that. I cannot say I preferred it though, being shy. I was happier the times I did not have to pull my T shirt off and go half naked.
The thing I never mastered was somersaults. Hated them more than anything. I was convinced I would break my neck. I would rather have done PE starknaked than do a somersault! No one ever did do PE naked of course. Sometimes in pants due to forgotten kit, this was not fun. I only did this once. Not nice taking off my uniform ,stripping down to just my underpants in the changing room and then having to enter the gym to spend a whole period in that way. But a good deterrent and lesson learned.

When I started middle school in the 1980s we had to purchase a PE top in school colours (mainly white but with blue bands across the chest). This could be either a vest (singlet) or a T-shirt, which obviously covered the shoulders and had a higher neck. Some boys opted for the vest, others for the T-shirt - I'm really not sure why it wasn't one or the other! Shorts were white and could be made from any material.

JP1, Our gym vests were white and what would now be called tee shirts. We never wore them indoors, only for athletics and cross-country.

Our gym master used to start every lesson with 20 star jumps as a warm up exercise. It was very obvious that the fronts of our shorts were bouncing up and down, but because it was the same for all of us I didn't find it embarrassing.

I was not athletic and had to do things I hated but in a regime of no choice, no complaints, no fuss, I got through it. It was good that for some exercises (forward rolls, handstands etc) we could help each other.

Undershirts of the style you refer to were commonly known as vests (or at least they were in my neighbourhood).

I think that in some schools (mainly primary schools) PE was done in 'vest and pants' ie. the children's usual
underwear. As I understand it, singlets were very similar in style, but quite often with a coloured band (presumably to identify teams or Houses etc?).
One of the runners in the photo on the following thread is wearing a PE vest or singlet.

http://www.historyworld.co.uk/photo.php?id=1602

Some contributors refer to wearing 'vests' for PE. Is a vest in this case similar to an undershirt, with no sleeves and a low cut neck? Is a singlet the same?
At my UK school our PE top was a normal plain white T shirt, albeit it was not always worn.

With regard to Bob's comment regarding running on the spot and star jumps, I can recall our PE teacher suggesting to some of my classmates that they should start to wear a bra after seeing them doing exercises like that!

I can understand the tradition of boys swimming nude especially in prep and boarding schools. What I find a bit hard to believe is what some said way back on this forum that they were also nude for swimming galas in front of parents, siblings and guests including females.
Some even claim that they had female instructors in junior nude swimming classes up to about age 12 or so.
Does anyone know anytrhing about this or had this experience?

I concur with a lot of what Paul has written. Not all families had washing machines and furthermore there was not a lot of money available for us to have as many clothes as we have today. At least my family only had to buy pe shorts which were also used for Football and cricket in the summer. I think they had to last me most of my school life(bought a bit large for room to grow). We only wore a top outside in winter and that was any T shirt we had, so it was not too expensive. And yes ours was an all boys school with all but one male teachers ex forces served in the war and our PE teacher was ex military PTI a strict disciplinarian and a frequent user of the Plimsoll on the backside.

With regards to " dancing behind a towel" When I lived in London the swimming pool I used had single sex changing facilities with a large communal area and a few cubicles, and life was simple. You just stripped off and changed. Now, where I go, the municipal swimming pool has a "Changing Village" which means that it is open to both sexes and all cubicles. Often you have to wait to get changed because there are insufficient cubicles and when I do get one if I need the loo urgently, I have to get changed quickly into my trunks on before leaving the cubicle. Whereas in the single sex changing rooms as Paul says you could be naked and not worry.

RE Gvain's reply to Alf about visitors to swimming pool

I went to all boys private prep/senior school in Surrey which had its own indoor heated pool. We all swam nude until 13, after that regulation black speedo type trunks. We had saturday morning school which was common back then.

One school year, i think when I was 11 or 12, we had swimming as our last lesson of the saturday classes. Quite often the Head would be showing parents & offspring around, which meant that Mothers and sometimes daughters would come into the pool.
I specifically remember one occasion where I was standing on the side for some reason when a boy and girl came in with their parents who were talking with the Head. The kids wandered further in and stood by me, the girl aged about 13 pointed at me and said with a big smile to her younger brother that will be you next term swimming naked and then laughed. He blushed profusely.

I didnt really think anything wrong about adults coming in but then I hadnt hit puberty so did not have much to hide.

I think in days when mothers did not have automatic washing machines or indeed in some cases any washing machine at all it was quite normal that clothes were not changed every day and sometimes not for several days. I was only allowed two grey school shirts a week and three pairs of white underpants. I was no different to other lads in that regard.

In those circumstances I don't think it was unusual that for sport where we would sweat or if outside potentially get soaked that we were required to take off our underpants when getting changed in fact it was totally sensible.

Equally in those days all PE teachers (well the men at least) had done national service. The military paid no attention to any concept of privacy when I joined the Navy in the early 1970s so I don't suppose it was any better in the post war era. We slept in open dormitories, showered in communal showers, used toilets that had no partitions and so on and we certainly didn't wear underpants with our sports gear which given the hard navy canvas like gym shorts we had which used to feel like rough sandpaper and they never softened was something you were always aware of.

These days I still use the gym regularly and I'm glad when I see younger lads dancing behind their towels and waiting for the one private shower cubicle as opposed to the fifteen communal showers that I'm comfortable naked in front of other men and don't care that others see me in a place where being naked is actually quite normal. All these years later, I wouldn't think of wearing underpants with my gym gear.