Burnley Grammar School

It was the same for all of us,Bob. Like William we never saw athletic supports and I even did gym in the 6th form wearing the same gym shorts I'd worn since the first form with nothing on underneath for all sports,and we never wore a vest or anything on top, even for cross country running.I don't think any of us thought anything about of it; we just got used to it and enjoyed the feeling of freedom.

I resented having to do PE with nothing on underneath those thin white shorts we wore. We always seemed to have to do a lot of running on the spot and star jumps in the gym, which inevitably caused what I later realised was a partial erection.. Although not very athletic, I was well developed in that embarrasing area. Having the PE teacher kneeling down in front of me watching me closely while encouraging me to get my knees higher when jogging on the spot(he often picked on me, it seemed) only added to my discomfort.

Catching up with the athletic support discussion, I never saw them at school in the '60s, but I didn't do gym after the fifth form and it is possible that the 1st XV had them. I never wore anything under shorts for gym, athletics, rugby or hockey.

We used to try to keep our gym shorts from the first form to the fifth. As the elastic slackened we turned over the waistbands to keep them up. This made the shorts shorter and tighter across the front, which did provide some support.

We never wore vests for gym and so the daring boys whose waistbands were low on their hips were not wearing much by the time they reached the fifth, but I don't think boys or masters thought anything of it.

Hi Alf
Yes a few resented it because they might not have been so well developed as some of their peers, and they didn't like younger boys seeing that obviously.
We use to swim either as a class (obviously same age - average class size say 20), or as a house which meant that a 10 year old boy could be in the same pool as a 13 year old.

Gavin,

Were there any boys who resented being naked during swim classes?

Considewring that there was quite a big age difference at the school, were the classes separate by age groups or all together? How many boys would there be in each swim class?

Hi Olderscot,

Like you my Ex said they weren't allowed to wear athletic supports until the start of their 3rd year at secondary school. He said that some of his classmates could really have done with getting one sooner!

No such age restrictions applied to the type of support required by us girls. A few of my classmates started to wear bras during our last year at primary school, whereas others didn't need them until the 2nd year at secondary.

Alf
The kind of visitors were mainly potential school boys and their parents. On rare occasions that boy might have a sister probably tagging along because they had to! But apart from them I don't remember anyone ekse. I certainly don't think any other member of staff apart from the swimming master or house master/tutor would have had the slightest interest in watching us boys otherwise.

Peter B

No, I said that when it came to inter school contests we wore trunks

To Gavin,

You said " Yes, some of the boys who had turned 13 did start to resent visitors being present when they were naked."

What kind of visitors did you have during your nude swimming classes, were they school staff or others who were visiting to watch?
Did female teachers or other females also came to watch?

So Gavin A are you saying swimming galas for your school with parents or the public present were swum naked?

What would the date have been year wise. It does seem a strange situation, but I suppose some years ago people were not so worried. I do not know if I woolud have been happy swimming naked in front of strangers let alone my own family

Hi, I note some comments regarding jock straps or Athletic supports to give their proper name. Like many others we only wore white cotton gym shorts and were subject to the " no underwear " rule which was common at the time. When we entered 3rd year around ages 14/15 we were allowed to buy a Litesome support from the school PE dept. Most boys did this. Looking back it was interesting that the rule was based on what year you were in rather than an individual boy's age or requirement for support. Some boys should have been allowed to wear a support much earlier as those shorts offered no support.

Happy to answer any queries .

James

Hi Alf,
Our parents had to buy the swimsuits as part of our uniform.

I went to an all girls secondary school.

James

We all wanted to wear a jockstrap at 13 or 14, just as the older boys were wearing them already. Litesome was the only brand in those days. Most boys possessed two jockstraps, one with and without a pouch (for a box .. i.e. cricket). Very much a coming of age aspect, and although they aren't common today I am still glad to say that I, my sons and grandchildren still wear them for sport.

Ronnie

To answer your questions: I don't think we had any problems with other teachers (90% + were male) watching us.

Did any of the boys feel any embarrassment being nude in front of everyone else during these lessons, especially at the older age? As said we could wear trunks from the senior school onwards. Yes, some of the boys who had turned 13 did start to resent visitors being present when they were naked. All swimming contests with other schools were never in the nude in front of parents and other guests, we wore navy blue speedos (official school colours). Our school was a boys only school.

Hi ,James your experiences with first seeing and then wearing a Litesome jockstrap are very similar to my own I got mine in 1977.

James. I totally agree with your comments about jockstraps. In an earlier email I explained how us boys went to the local sports shop to buy one. Like you we felt very grown up as a result. We continued to wear them for sports even after leaving school and college.I also agree how comfortable they were and cannot understand why they have gone out of fashion. They were much more comfortable than modern sports briefs. Difficult to get now but are still available via the internet.

Andrea, were the swimsuits supplied by the school or had to be bought by the parents as part of the school kit?

And what did the boys wear, if anything? :)

Olderscot,

I heard about the tawse in Scottish schools and how it was used liberally by most teachers, just like you describe.
Incidentally there was a small documentary on BBC radio about it only a week or two ago. It probably can still be found on the BBC Radio documentary site in mp3 form.

It documents how a Scottish mother whose son was belted at school took the case to the European Court of Justice which forced the British Parliament to take a vote against all corporal punishment in British schoools.

Gavin,

Apart from the intructor or coach could anyone else from the school, especially female staff or teachers, watch during your nude swimming lessons?
Did any of the boys feel any embarrassment being nude in front of everyone else during these lessons, especially at the older age?
I read some other old posts here who said that they had swimming galas in the nude in front of parents and other guests.

I assume that yours was either a boys only school or the boys and girls had separate swimming classes.
I also find it strange, or maybe justified for some reasons, that only boys were not allowed to wear anything for swimming classes, but not for girls.

Presumably the schools which had nude swimming had their own pools?

We had swimming lessons for a couple of years at Secondary school, but these were at a local council owned pool. We had to wear regulation navy blue one piece swimsuits.

Going back to previous conversations,
Yes I was at Grammar school in the late 60's. I have mentioned before that it was suggested that if we were "uncomfortable' we should get a jockstrap. At that point I didn't really know what one was, but I saw an older boy putting one on in the changing rooms before his shorts and I put two and two together. I thought that it must feel weird, but I had to find out.
I went to the local sports shop and came out with a Litesome, like so many others here. It did feel strange but very comfortable, if a bit draughty!
Quite a few friends went on to get them as it was like the next step to being 'grown up".
I can't understand why they are not so popular now as, for me, they were more comfortable than any other underwear, support and freedom all at once.

I know that now it is many years since senior schools were all boys schools but does anyone recall how they felt the first time they were in a swimming lesson with everyone naked. Especially if the first time it was experienced was in the secondary or senior school.

Ronnie
English independent school (1965 - 1976 ) we swam without trunks from 7 to 13/14 and then trunks were allowed

Ronnie,
I attended a boys only secondary school in Scotland from 1965-1972.
In response to your questions , there was no nude swimming in the school pool . We wore swimming briefs in the school colours . However, if a boy had forgotten his swimming kit then he would be expected to do without. Very few ever did!
Being in Scotland the teachers , almost without exception, had a tawse ( always known as "the belt") in their desk drawer. This was used regularly and few boys would have left school with having had their hands belted. In most cases a boy would receive one or two strokes on each hand but some teachers gave three on each hand as a matter of course. The belts were either marked "H" for heavy or "XH" for extra heavy. Most teachers seemed to use a H with two tails but some had two belts, using the XH on older boys. In all cases the punishment was given in front of the class. Hope that this gives you some idea of what the arrangements were back then.

Sterling, I have read about the imposed custom of nude swimming in US schools. But the difference with British schools seems to have been that while in US schools the nude swimming started in high school at about age 13 or 14, in British schools it started at a much younger age and contrary to US schools it usually stopped at 13 or 14 at which age the boys were allowed to wear trunks, though not in all schools where they had this practice.

I wonder if there are any readers here who had this practice and tradition at their school.

Ronnie, I have heard of Nude Swimming in some British Boarding School's but nothing like the scale of its practice in some parts of the US.

As for Corporal Punishment I attended a School where each Master had his own particular weapon of mass destruction.
But it kept us on our toes!

Since this subject seems to be exhausted would it not be more interesting if we talked about corporal punishment and nude swimming when we were at school?

I also remember those old toilets we had at school, especially in primary, which were doorless where us boys had no privacy.
There were even some schools which had open urinals in the school yard which boys could use while playing. Not at our school but one could see these urinals stuck to the schoolyard wall when passing by in the street. I wonder if some schools still have them, though not likely today.

Like Jake when in sixth form most lads did PE (and cross-country) while stripped to the waist even though it was not compulsory.

When I was at school in the late fifties all the boys wore vests under their school shirts and we were told before the start of the first PE lesson to go to the changing room and take everything off including our socks and underpants and to come back into the gym wearing just shorts and plimsolls.On the way,we were talking and some of the boys said about whether we were allowed to wear Tshirts which had been on the uniform list and we said 'no, just shorts and plimsolls'. So,we certainly weren't allowed to keep our vests on and as to T.shirts; we never ever wore them. We were always stripped to the waist, and able to sweat freely and then shower together afterwards and so become more confident about ourselves. All boys today should be able to continue to share that experience.
When I started a job in 1962, I realised that none of my young male colleagues wore vests under their shirts, so I ditched mine and have never worn one since.

It is strange that there weren't standard rules about these things, even within the same school. I had one PE teacher who let us wear t-shirts (and even an extra sweatshirt outdoors!). Then the next year we had a different teacher, his view was that we needed toughening up and made us all do it stripped to the waist. In the sixth form things were more relaxed and we were given the choice, but most boys opted to wear just shorts and no top.