Burnley Grammar School

Ted

You're right about white briefs. I went to school 1965 - 74. We had regulation 'whitey tighties' in my school, and in the 70s boys increasingly were trying to break the regulation with the colour undies that were then on the market.

In response to other postings, if I remember in the 60's white underwear was the only really available and as briefs. There was no branding or fashion as such. The only exception might have been some lads would wear the original Y front brand. Furthermore as with most people contributing to this site, PE was strictly no underwear. One teacher would randomly in some lessons just pull back the back waist band of the shorts to check. Heaven help you if you were wearing pants.

I remember medical examinations at all boys secondary school 1961 to 66. The last medical was in 1965. We lined up in one of the classrooms and stripped to the waist. Then we had to go forward one by one to the doctor(female) and the time in the exam came when we had to drop trousers and pants right down for the cough test. No privacy. There was no regulation underwear but in those days we all wore white briefs. That was really all that was available. PE kit was as in those days when indoors no top, short tight white shorts no underwear and the old black plimsolls with no socks. Communal showers afterwards.

Alf

We had regulation 'whitey tighties' in my school

Hi Alf,
Yes, we had two physical exams at Secondary school. The first was not long after we started there, so age 11 and the second about 3 years later. I think our parents did get a letter to inform them and we wore our regulation knickers and a vest or bra, whichever we normally wore at that point. In most cases they were white, with perhaps a small pink bow or rosebud (unlike the knickers our vest / bra colour wasn't specified in the uniform policy).

How old were you when you had your physical and were you nervous?

Hi Andrea,
I guess we boys were lucky not to have regulation underpants also. :)
The only time that underpants were mentioned was during school physical exams when our parents were informed and told to make sure that we wore clean underpants on that day, preferably white briefs if I remember well.
In any case most of us, if not all, were wearing white briefs during these physical exams.
Did you have physical exams at your school?

Alf,

Gymslip dresses are styled like this https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/466263367642440069/

Our uniform policy specified that they had to be worn by pupils in the first two years at the school. From the third year onwards we had to wear a skirt and blouse. I'm not sure why the lower school had a different uniform.

Yes, our uniform list stipulated that we had to wear regulation navy blue knickers even on days we didn't have PE. I could never really understand why, but on occasions checks were made.

James,
When my son was at school, most of the boys had switched to wearing long trousers by the end of primary school (age 11).

Andrea,like Alf I wore shorts to school,albeit I was older and unlike Alf I was subjected to a considerable amount of teasing.
Do you agree with keeping boys in shorts at that age and what age do you think they should be promoted to wearing long trousers?

Andrea, yes, the uniform was the same throughout secondary school from form 1 to form 5. The only exception seems to have been in form 6 where they could wear ordinary clothes if I remember well. I left school after form 5.

Another unorthodox thing I remember about form 6 is that even though it was an all boys school there were also some girls in form 6. I don't know the reason for this arrangement at the time.

I don't remember exactly when I changed from shorts to long trousers, if it was at the start of the school year or part way through. All I remember is that I was about 14 and probably in form 3 or form 4.

You mention that you wore dresses rather than skirts for the first two years. What kind of dresses were these and were they a different kind of uniform than later years?

I read somewhere that in some schools girls had to wear blue or green knickers as part of the uniform, which I find strange. In some they even had inspections to check that the girls wore these obligatory knickers or underwear. Do you know anything about this?

Hello Andrea
We had to wear a school cap in my school, 10 to 13 year olds at junior school. We had to wear shorts but only up to 12. most boys started switching over to longs.

Hi Alf,
I think some of my classmates probably did roll up the waistbands of their skirts to make them shorter when they were out of sight of school, but sometimes they got caught out if one of the teachers happened to be passing!

One thing I do remember about getting my uniform when I started at secondary school was mum insisting that everything had to have "room for me to grow", so particularly the gymslip dresses and blazer seemed at least one size too large to start with. It worked though, as they lasted for the first two years, although they were a little tight by the end of the second year!

I'm not sure why dresses rather than skirts were required for the first two years, it must have been annoying for some mums if their daughter outgrew a dress with only a few months of the second year left.

When you finally did change from shorts to long trousers, was it at the start of a new school year, or part way through? Also, was all your uniform the same for all year groups?

Once we got used to it, I don't think we minded the uniform too much, but the no tights rule was unpopular, especially in the middle of winter.

Andrea, like James describes at his school we didn't wear a school cap at our school, but school uniform was strictly enforced including school tie and blazer.
About miniskirts, our neighbour girls school also had strict skirt length as you describe, but once out of school the girls managed to hike up their skirt to show a bit of leg. They didn't want to look out of fashion, especially since some of us got together to chat each other up before entering our respective schools and afterwards when we finished. Like I said our schools were fairly close together.
About uniform, I understand the frustration and uncomfort for you girls having to wear an un-girlish uniform apart from the skirt. But I think neither us boys or the girls ever complained about it, at least from what I remember. Somehow we were actually proud to wear our school uniform, or just took it for granted, in spite of a little discomfort sometimes.
What I really hated was wearing shorts when some other boys same age were already wearing long trousers. If I remember well most boys wore shorts in the first few years of secondary or maybe 50-50, can't remember exactly. But I don't think it was such a big issue back then and I don't remember anyone teasing someone else for wearing shorts to school.
It was probably the only thing about the uniform that the school didn't make any rules about, as long as both shorts or trousers were the right grey uniform colour.

Hi Andrea,we didn't wear caps to school,but wearing shorts obviously made easily distinguishable from other boys that wore long trousers.
Unlike the restrictions that were imposed at your school regarding the length of the skirts,no such restrictions were imposed on the length of our shorts that we wore.

Hi James and Alf,

I may have been the miniskirt era, but not in our school! Our dresses or skirts were supposed to be knee length and on occasions the teachers would have us kneel down to check that our hems touched the floor! In the first two years we had to wear 'gymslip' style dresses with a blouse underneath,but from the third year onwards it was a skirt and blouse. All years had to wear a tie and blazer and worst of all a beret - we all hated those!

I think the boys at one of our local schools used to have to wear caps for the first couple of years - did your school have those?

Alf & Andrea,boys still wearing shorts at 13 or 14 would also have been typical at my school although some boys continued to wear them till they left school.
As you point out hemlines rose abruptly in the sixties and the same applied to boys'short trousers.
Knee stockings,which we wore would only keep our legs warm,but you could you could 'freeze' wearing short shorts in the winter.
My strict parents took advantage of the uniform policy that allowed boys to wear shorts up to leaving age,so I was only one of a few to wear shorts at 16.

Andrea, you are right, it was common for boys to still be wearing shorts as part of uniform in early secondary school years. I myself wore them till I was 13 or 14.
However girls uniform memory brings a grin to my face. It was the miniskirt era and girls wore school skirts above their knees, even in Winter with woollen tops but still with bare legs for many of them. Some wore woolen long socks like you mention, but not all.
I guess it was nearly the same for us boys, it was shorts up to about knee length even in Winter, and those woollen uniform grey socks even in Summer.
But we, both boys and girls, never actually gave it a second thought because we just accepted it as normal, even if it was uncomfortable at times.
It was the same with neck ties, you just had to wear them as part of secondary school uniform.
Girls in some secondary schools also had to wear neck ties as part of uniform.
Girls also had to wear school uniform jackets with the school logo, like us boys. In fact we wore the same uniform, except for shorts or trousers for boys and skirts for girls.
How things have changed!

Hi Andrea,I went to a mixed Secondary Modern and there were no restrictions when boys had to wear long trousers.
Therefore,some boys,including myself could be kept in shorts till they left school.

Hi James,

I actually went to an all girls school, but from what I remember of seeing the local boys on their way to their secondary school, some of the first years (ages 11 to 12) wore grey shorts, but some were in long trousers.
Was it the same at your school?

Hi Andrea,did boys wear grey shorts at your secondary school that you attended and if so up to what age?

When I was at Primary School in the 1960s all the boys wore grey shorts. We had to wear a skirt or dress. We were allowed to wear wooly tights to keep our legs warm in the winter.

It was different at Secondary School - tights were not allowed, so it was long socks in winter and ankle socks in summer. This wasn't much fun in the middle of winter, especially as I had to cycle to school!

I was at primary school approx 1957 to 1961 and our grey uniform shorts were well above the knee. When we did PE we simply removed our tops keeping on our vest(singlet) and so participated in the uniform shorts. The girls however had to remove their dress or skirt(they did not wear trousers those days) and therefore doing PE in their underwear. The pe was a mixed class and no one thought anything of the arrangement. It was just as it was. Girls in knickers boys in shorts.

Turner,short trousers were longer in the sixties,but became much shorter in the seventies and eighties and of course were worn with knee stockings and as you say they were tightly kept in place with garters.
Unlike the longer shorts,shorter shorts were much colder when worn in the cold weather and I certainly couldn't see any advantage in wearing shorts that that came well above the knee.
The garters would always leave bands in my legs where they kept my stockings firmly in place,which I found uncomfortable.

Don't forget that in the sixties school short trousers were actually quite long, almost like those ridiculous shorts that footballers wear nowadays, leaving not much bare leg between trousers and long socks (kept up with garters)..

Our PE teachers were both ex Army, our lessons were done either with us all skins, or teams of skins and vests. From joining the scool as a 9yr old through to leaving at 18 we never did a PE lesson with all boys in vests.

I vividly remember as a ten-year old, walking through sometimes knee-deep snow to my primary school during the long, exceptionally cold Winter of 1962/63.

The distance was about half a mile and, although I was warmly dressed with duffel coat, gloves, long socks and stout shoes, I still wore my usual grey short trousers.

Looking back, it seems amazing, but neither my mother or I gave the matter any thought at all. It was just expected that I would wear shorts all year round regardless of the weather. I didn't even have a pair of long trousers to wear instead, even if I had complained of cold legs - which I never did.

The few boys who did wear long trousers usually got them saturated from trudging through the deep snow, so wearing shorts did have its advantages.

Toughening Lads for possible Military Service was once the logic. Many PE Teachers having served in the Military also added to the often extreme Discipline.
However it was still Irrational to make this assumption in the Early 80s! Also Boys back then where quite tough given the lack of Central Heating etc
Northern Ireland was blanketed in deep snow in 1963. Hence Shorts were totally impractical.
We Boys had to clear snow from the Pitch, around the School Grounds and also the Girls School Opposite.
Outdoor Games and Shirts Vs Skins continued despite the frozen ground. Those horrible Plimsolls Caused many Chilblains!
But we were tough alright. The problem is the Experience put many people off Sport for life. Particularly later say the 1980's when Corporal Punishment was often replaced by gruelling Exercise Sessions during Detention!

Sterling,I believe the rationale for keeping boys in shorts was to toughen them up and make them hardy and therefore able to withstand cold weather.
I don't recall the winter of 1963,but I do recall other cold winters particularly the one of 1981 when temperatures plummeted to-27 degrees.
Shorts were usually purchased in August in warmer climes and no consideration was ever given to the harsh winters that lay ahead.
Shorts were considerably shorter in the 80's and withstanding the cold weather was an ordeal.

I was wearing long trousers by the time of the winter of 1962/63 as were all my class-mates.
However we still had to do PE and cross-country topless.

As James Rightly Remarked Keeping Teenage Boys in Shorts in such a cold Climate is Totally Irrational!
For those of you who remember the Big Freeze in 1963 and spent it in Shorts will concur!
It was so cold the Sea Froze. Yet lads still commuted to School in Shorts!

Mr Anderson, your explanation is great and I think we have been molly coddling boys ever since. A form of National service be brought back for male & female at 18 years of age. (not in the armed services) but to give some idea of discipline or give the existing youth organisations such as Scout Guides cadet services etc funding so that they can encourage more to join up.