Burnley Grammar School

T it is interesting to read comments from a person who has recently left school. For PE were you allowed to wear pants under your shorts or like us from older generation was underwear banned? The fact that you wore swimming briefs in the pool is interesting but I assume that was the rules, because one rarely sees males wearing swimming briefs in public these days

At my school, we did PE in shorts and a t-shirt. For team games, we would use different bibs and for colder days, such as for cross country, we wore jumpers. I finished school last year so this is quite an accurate representation. For swimming, we wore swim briefs.

In response to Willy.

Swimming lessons were in an indoor pool not large enough for spectators with a male supervising master.

Edward, can you describe how the swimming sessions were carried out?
Were they swimming lessons or free swims?
Did you have swimming competitions or galas in front of spectators?
Also were female teachers or staff ever present during your nude swims?

In response to Willy.

I attended a boy's only Preparatory/Public School.

Swimming without trunks was obligatory for all.

Edward, could you elaborate and clarify further, was it a primary, prep or secondary school?
Was it a boys only or mixed school?

Further to recent comments tradition was not the pretext to swimming naked at the school that I attended in the early sixties.The regime was imposed at the whim of the Headmaster.

'Get used to it' was the response from other staff.

Participating nude was initially daunting, but I became accustomed to it, with the added benefit of no wet trunks.

In response to your comments Willy, I think you are correct. It was either school or district policy that governed rules on nude swimming. We had weekly swimming lessons at our secondary school but we were taken b y coach to the local municipal pool. It was a session just for our school which all boys but swimming trunks were worn. For PE it was like most schools shorts no pants or top and plimsolls only no socks. Our parents knew this and no one thought anything about it.

I expect at the first lesson I thought it strange and felt a bit uncomfortable but I knew what was coming because my elder brother was already attending the school and he had told me about the minimal clothing in PE and I know he tried to tease me by saying that with no pants and only shorts everything would hangout. In spite of everything we all survived.

In answer to the question about dress for PE today I know from my son's high school ti is shorts for outdoor football etc. although winter he can wear track suit bottoms and they always wear a top and underwear. There is no mention of showers and he does not have to take a towel. It seems from what he says several PE and sports lessons are spent talking about the theory of keeping fit with very little exertion

It was not teachers that made boys swim nude. It was either the school policy or district policy.
If it was illegal it would never have happened anywhere.
The main reason was tradition and the culture of the time. In fact most all parents of the time accepted it as normal and never objected.
It was the same with PE kit of shorts only or underpants unly, or even supervised communal showers at school, all of which would be seen as unacceptable today.
I guess the only tradition from among these that still survives today, though probably getting rarer, is the compulsary communal shower after PE.
Does anyone here know of any schools which still have any of these old traditions?

I never minded nude swimming once we got used to the idea. Equally communal showers were quite healthy places where there was always a bit of chat and banter which was much more fun that the closed cubicles of today.

It's always a mistake to judge other times by values of a different age. I certainly never met a teacher who seemed to have any untoward intentions, no doubt a very few did but it's so wrong to judge the majority on the basis of that.

Why did they insist on nude swimming? Why shouldn't people wear trunks? I honestly think these teachers should be tried- they may have had some wrong intentions... absolutely awful that this happened.

Lewis, what you said about France is true for a lot of mainland Europe. When I lived in Germany, it was the norm to wear speedos if you were a guy and a bikini if you're a woman. The hygiene reason is often touted as for why this the case, although for women I don't quite believe that a bikini would be more 'hygienic', not to complain though!

Sterling
I have read quite recently that on the continent (especially France) swimming shorts are not allowed in swimming pools particularly at hotels, and males all have to wear swimming trunks of the briefs design. (speedos). Apparently the reason for this is also "fibres from shorts clog the filtration system" In addition I have read that men might wear swimming shorts on the beach and if they go into the pool without changing then sane from the beach can also clog the system.

However, I cannot see how schools in the past used clogging as an excuse to insist on nude swimming.

One excuse adopted by School Authorities for mandating nude swimming was the alleged dire problem of what to do with wet trunks!

The Plastic bag was only invented in the early 60's and not widely available until later in the decade.

However in mixed Schools girls were permitted swimsuits with three times the material of swim trunks.
This also draws into question the other reason widely given for the enforcement of suit-free swimming for boys only.
That the fibres from their trunks clogged the filtration systems!
If that was the case surely girls' suits would have the same effect?

Certainly odd but I can see why it was necessary. You can't really clean yourself properly if you're wearing trunks. It was very daunting walking to and from the showers but actual being in the shower room without trunks was perfectly fine.

I understand what you mean about the win briefs. It depends on the competition. For a lot of individual events, I wore my jammers as that's what I find the best personally. But for team events we wore our team kit which was blue swim briefs. It depends on the competition.

Bradley, it's interesting to see that nude showering happens in some schools. At my school we showered with trunks on. What was it like?

And did you wear trunks for competitions as well? At a gala I took part in everyone wears swim briefs

Gerald, teachers weren't allowed to enter the shower area, yes. But after a swimming lesson we would go to the changing area, take off our trunks and make our way to the shower room. He would have been able to see if someone immediately got changed without having a shower since he's usually just outside the changing room so can see when everyone leaves after getting dressed. But everyone did shower, there was never a time when someone tried to avoid it.

Harold1, I didn't really like the idea of doing PE without a top but got used to it and think it helped. At my school we showered wearing swimming trunks as it was a communal shower room and not in cubicles, so I can't quite answer your second question.

Keith John, I remember the big snow was the only time we had indoor PT due to the Weather. However we only missed one session. I also recall it was we boys who cleared the snow from the pitch and also the driveway and footpaths of the nearby girls School.

I would just like to tell you about one of my experiences at school, it was the winter of 1962/63, there was snow around 12 to 18 inches widespread around the country, I lived in a Midlands city and my secondary modern school was on the edge of it.Did all that snow stop us getting to school? no it didn't, nor stop us having outdoor PE, we had a football pitch behind the school and the snow had been cleared by the caretaker/groundsman and his small team.

Our PE kit was blue hard cotton shorts, black plimsols, no shirt or underpants to be worn, I was 14 then and it was to be my last winter at school as in the summer I would be 15 and leave to work then, we ran bare chested around the football pitch to warm up, -5 to -10 I ask you warm up!!!

Our chests hurt with breathing frosty air and our nipples stuck out like organ stops!, then back to the equally cold gym and discard wet freezing plimsols and do gym barefoo, then a very lukewarm shower after. Would I go through all of it again? Yes I would! I was proud of my fitness then and kept up it up through my life, I am in my late 60's now and I think that all that PE we did, helped prolong my life, where as some of my schoolfriends who ducked out of exercising are sadly no longer with us,

Recently my doctor gave me a brief exam and reckoned my fitness was on par with a late 40, early 50's male who exercised regulaly at a gym! todays schoolboys seemingly have it easy, at the high school near me the boys doing PE outside rarely wear shorts in winter unless its football and some I have seen wear gloves!

Thanks for your reply Evan, it sounds like your school got it right then. It also clearly worked for you if being a skin for PE ultimately helped your confidence. I do know what you mean about being shy though, it was the same for me when I first did PE in skins. The reason was that I used to get teased about my freckles (not just on my face but also my chest, shoulders and back). Looking back it seems silly but I guess teenagers can get sensitive about many things!

I have read of a College XC Coach in the United States who was sacked for continually allowing some of young men to train on Campus grounds with their vests off! If I recall correctly, he had received a number of warnings.lol
Apparently it's in convention of Campus Rules! I'd imagine many of team would be bigger guys than himself. Try telling someone 6,4' to put their sweaty shirt back on while training a blistering hot day!
However forcing someone to train shirtless would also be quite wrong, I feel, nowadays!
We live in a new world today. In the last couple of decades we have had the advent of both the Internet and Camera Phones! Therefore Communal Gang showers may no longer be suitable.
Lads going back to class stinking of a sickly sweat\ cheap deodorant pong is disgusting. Heaven help the poor Teachers!
Ladies locker rooms had cubicle showers decades ago. Men should be afforded the same privacy, if they so wish!

I can tell that gymnastics lessons were a lot harder in those days! However, that isn't to say that there weren't hard PE lessons when I was in school.
There certainly were some lessons (e.g. treadmill on highest setting followed by high intensity on the rowing machine followed by running on the spot, repeated many times) after which I was completely exhausted and sweating like a pig.
Gymnastics was usually used as a way to calm down after a long day of school as it was always the last lesson of the week. Everyone always looked forward to it.

Kenton, I'd have to disagree with you as I do think that the less confident 'shirts' gained confidence. I noticed they played better. The reason why some people asked to be shirts was: they were fat or shy, to put it simply. As someone who was skinny I was far from confident but I didn't ask to be on the shirts team because my friends didn't ask- peer pressure! I know that I was very shy at the start and made it worse at first but helped my confidence in the long term.

Hi John,

Bench rugby was good fun and dead simple too. Teams were skins v vests. We moved 2 high jump landing cushions (goals) either end of the gym and then placed a bench next to each. Each team had 5 players, one goalie on the bench and 4 players. The idea was to run and pass, as you would in rugby, make it to the goal and try to score. The other team would try to block a pass and take possession of the ball.
Happy to talk further, Jay

Bradley, I hope my rather protracted explanation helped you to understand what we had to do in gymnastics in the late 1950's and why we always had to be shirtless. From the many comments on this site it is clear that we were typical of most schools for quite a few decades when we did what we were told without argument,and I am still of the opinion that many lads today would benefit from this regime. Clearly, our gymnastics lessons could not have been described as relaxing, although they may have succeeded in releasing any built up aggression we may been harbouring. Maybe, in today's world, the chance to do some relaxing exercise to calm us down is equally desirable.

Hi Evan, it was interesting to read your account of team games in PE. It sounds like on the one hand the teachers were very sensitive towards boys who felt uncomfortable about taking their shirts off. At the same time, I can't help wondering if that was actually a good thing in the long run. Presumably those boys who always kept their shirts on for PE never gained greater body confidence, while those who did it in skins were already confident to begin with. Might it not have been better to keep the teams random so that every boy experienced being a skin at some stage?
Btw we had shirts vs skins for team games at my school in the 1990s, teaMs were picked by the teachers and, while some boys ended up playing shirtless more than others, it didn't seem to matter.

Just saw Bradley's post about showers. Were teachers not allowed to enter the shower area? If sol how did they ensure that everyone showered?

Bradley and Evan. Would any of you care to share whether you felt that shirtless PE or showers after PE were unfair or unnecessary? I think that in today's world most young people don't exactly feel comfortable with these things. I remember going to the beach one day and my nephew didn't want to take his shirt off and preferred to keep it on for swimming in the sea. This seems to be the dominant opinion these days?

Rob, thanks for the clarification. We rarely did gymnastics at school. Usually, gymnastics consisted of more relaxing exercises and sometimes of different routines. Not very difficult. However, we did also have a gym at school with treadmills and spin bikes and rowing machines which was used very frequently.