Burnley Grammar School

Bradley,thanks for explaining about the cross country grounds.By gym,I am referring to gymnastics just like in the photo; schools did not have gyms equipped with treadmills and rowing machines, etc.until much more recently. All dressed in just shorts and plimsolls,our lessons began with vigorous physical exercises to strengthen all part of our bodies, including press ups and squat thrusts for arms, and other exercises for stomach muscles, including lying on our backs, arms outstretched and lifting our legs up at 45 degrees , together and apart and then lowering them to six inches, and further together and apart repeatedly. we also did various exercises with medicine balls to strengthen arms,legs and stomach muscles.We then went on to use the equipment, either the vaulting horses or boxes or ropes,beams,etc. All lessons were very intense and when we stopped for a moment I can still remember feeling the sweat trickling down my sides, back and chest; in fact, my whole body and feeling really good about it, eagerly looking forward to getting under the showers.

Hi everyone, I've posted on here once before. The whole conservation about PE clothing brings back memories. At our school, which I left a few years ago, PE was done in t shirt and shorts, except for team games where it was shirts vs skins. However, teachers never directly forced anyone to remove their shirts. Instead, they asked first if anyone objected to taking it off. A small minority would always object, these were the same people each time and usually the ones who weren't particularly able at PE! Then a few more would be selected to join the shirts team, and the other half of us were skins. Honestly, it was nowhere near as big a deal as others here are making it out to be, it was a bit embarrassing at some times but not really a major issue.

Jay: What was ' Bench Rugby ' exactly? It does sound good! Would you care to explain briefly on here and also maybes email me with more details?
Thanks!

Bradley and Harry, thanks for your responses. much appreciated. It shows how much attitudes towards PE have changed over the years- in my time, shirts were never worn for PE, trunks weren't worn for swimming either. If you were judged to have not worked hard enough you had to stay back after school. Even at home, shirts didn't make much of an appearance during warmer weather and we were all told to go outside and play football and get active. I think it was better back then when we were comfortable and confident, as well as more active.

Gavin:
Which school did you attend. email me if you prefer
Charles

Rob,
There was a facility in the cross country grounds (it's a privately owned grounds which the local schools used, it's not just some random field in the countryside!) where we showered but the showers were awful. The building where the showers were was basically a shack and there were about ten shower taps available and they were all cold. It wasn't a proper shower- just a quick one to get the mud off and get rid of the sweat.

By gym, I'm not sure what activities you're referring to. Are you describing gymnastics, such as jumping over hurdles, forward and backward flips, sequences et cetera, or are you referring to the gym where people lift weighs, do cardio, treadmill etc... I was referring to the former, which wasn't too intense I have to say. There was, however, the treadmills and cardio activities and sprinting which did make us very tired and sweaty.

Harold mentioned about differentiating between teams well, depending on what house you were in you wore black or white shorts and the timetable always was so that there wouldn't be a clash. I'm in my very early 30s and our lessons were always done "skins vs vests" for games like basketball, bench rugby. We did strip outdoors too, normally for athletics, softball. We did fitness sessions either indoors or outside on the yard or field but these were done with the whole class stripped off. I do agree about comments that not everyone wanted to be picked to strip off, certainly it was a suprise when our first skins team was picked and duly made to strip. Even being very average physically, I found myself being picked out to strip off most of the time. No one knew why some were picked to strip more than others, it just happened. Like plenty of others we were worked hard and it was the norm to see lads vests sticking to bodies. I was really pleased not to have experienced that much, only during the basketball and fitness inter house competitions when one house wore a vest for one half but stripped for the other half. We presumed this was to allow the girls to see all the lads stripped at some point during the match ups

Bradley,thanks for explaining the circumstances necessitating your having to run without a shirt but such a pity that you all had to go through the trouble of getting a bus to the field, taking your shirt off,running and then putting your shirt back on.Were you not sweaty after the run and have to take a shower when you returned to school? Also, when you had swimming lessons you only wore trunks and were nude in the showers afterwards so you weren't shy, yet you preferred to wear a shirt in the gym.You obviously weren't made to sweat as most of us were in the past, or you would have found a shirt very uncomfortable and hence the reason we were always barechested and glad to be so.

Michael :
I have emailed you . Thanks for your enquiry.

We officially had a Top to wear for Gym/PE but many of us took any opportunity to do it shirtless including running the Gauntlet at the Start of the lesson (if we were two of the last to get changed).

If it was an ordinary lesson then we went commando ; if we had Wrestling Included (usually just a couple of Bouts with opponents picked at random) , we were told to bring and put on our Trunks under our shorts then we took off the Shorts and Tops for the Fight.

We normally played 'Skins v. Vests' for any team excercises, or Killerball ( a sort of indoor Rugby with very few Rules).
Also if we had a game of British Bulldog during the session any boy who was Shirtless was the First Catcher and if you got caught you dumped your top in the corner of the hall and went shirtless for the rest of the lesson.

I went to an independent Grammar School in the early to mid 1960s.

Tim: Thanks for that note, Yes, I am of the same age-group as yourself. Great Minds think alike!

In answer to John Lavender - I live adjacent to 250 acres of common land. I aim to run most mornings in Spring. Summer & early Autumn, on a combination of surfaces. For a change I can add in a canal tow-path & farm lanes & tracks. I aim to get out before 7.00am. The area has it's own micro-climate - at 7.00 it can be warm enough to strip off & run topless. I'm in my mid-60s BTW.

Rob, we didn't wear shirts because apparently a lot of parents complained about shirts getting muddy from cross country and then having to get all the stains out. It wasn't forbidden and a small number of guys did wear shirts for various reasons.

We got changed at school in the PE changing room and then got on the coach wearing PE shorts and our school uniform shirt, which we removed upon arrival. There is a tap available at the field under which you could quickly wash the mud off before getting on the coach.

No one forced us to wear tops at the gym. It's not really considered appropriate and no one did it. I personally preferred to wear a top and so did everyone else.

Well I can't see what's the reason to wear any top for PE.Boys have more freedom of movement not wearing shirt and it is much safer for gymnastics for instance.
They are shirtless for swimming lessons too.What is the difference?
And as you've written starting the lesson having no shirt on can stop the problem of fearing who will be the ones having to take off their shirt off for team games.No shirts only coloured bibs and the "problem" solved.

These Postings on this Thread are quite Interesting; does anyone on here still Run, either On Tarmac, Cross Country or Trail , or even more Extreme events like obstacle Races, and Run topless?
What sort of reactions do you get?
Eve though my Grammar-school days are well behind me I still remember them quite fondly and do still run without a Top quite Regularly.
My main Running is Training off-road and Parkruns, and also Obstacle Courses.

I was at a boys grammar school in the late fifties and never experienced shirts v skins as we were told when we arrived for our first PE lesson that when we got changed we must take everything off including pants and socks and come back into the gym wearing just shorts and plimsolls.This wasn't a problem for me or other boys in the class and was our kit from then until we left.We would sometimes get changed expecting a normal lesson to be told we were going out on a cross country run, so we went out barechested, as normal. We accepted this and got used to it in the same way as nude showers. I am pleased to see that this site has finally acknowledged that shirts v skins was a bad idea. Naturally, if boys are allowed to start off wearing shirts and then half of them are told to take them off, the shy ones are bound to be embarrassed being seen barechested by other boys wearing shirts.This causes them stress waiting to see who's going to be picked to be a skin.I am glad that we all had to be barechested all the time and able to move around freely without any embarrassment.If we were split into teams we used to have coloured bands to wear.I cannot understand why the system of shirts v skins persisted when schools could have been like us and so prevented the misery endured by many boys who could have gone on to enjoy being barechested well beyond their schooldays.

Young men today aren't soft, but a product of their surroundings.
We certainly didn't live in well insulated boxes with central heating. So ice on the inside of School Dormitory windows didn't have parents arriving with pitch forks!
I remember the toilet block was so cold the water froze in the toilets!
The old, overcrowded building provided limited hot water!
After cursing the PT master in younger years, we thanked him when we got older and realised he was conserving hot water so teams and older lads could have a hot shower at the end of training! Happy Days

Harry, That's a very interesting comment, thanks. So it was really all about choice. I was a shy and skinny 11-year old and, given the choice, I would have worn a gym vest, something under my shorts, and I wouldn't have showered in the nude with a lot of other boys. It sounds as if you were more confident. But I had no choice and it was surprising how quickly I adjusted and got to like the freedom.

It also meant that, when the inevitable happened and some joker sneaked up behind you and pulled down your shorts, you yanked them back up and laughed it off, whereas the shy me would have been mortified. Of course, if it happened when you were up a rope or hanging on to wall bars you couldn't pull them up until your feet were back on the floor.

I benefited from not having the choice to remain shy but not every boy did. Some changed carefully so that they were never naked in the changing room, whereas the confident ones couldn't have cared less.

William, some of the boys at my school disliked being in the skins team out of shyness and feeling self conscious about their bodies. I suppose I was fortunate that I enjoyed it more. You're right, of course we all did swimming without a top but maybe it made a difference that it was the same for everyone whereas in the gym only some boys had to go bare-chested. Perhaps that's a problem for my generation as opposed to yours - we're not required to do PE like that as a matter of course and therefore some boys are uncomfortable with it. Personally I wouldn't have minded if the regular uniform had been just shorts and trainers with no top.

Harry, You would have liked our gym lessons: no vests and teams differentiated by inch wide coloured sashes worn over the shoulder, so that teams would be skins, reds, blues etc. No extra layer to make us hot. You suggest that some boys would not like gym without vests. A few days ago I think Bradley said he could think of no reason for not wearing vests. Could one of you explain why please? I really don't understand since all men/boys are bare-chested for public swimming.

Bradley, thank you for explaining about speedo jammers. When you did cross country did you go in the coach already stripped off? It's a sign of the times that you had to have a coach to take you to a field rather than run there.So you are telling me that you didn't wear shirts because if you fell over you would have got your shirts muddy and wouldn't have had time to wash them before the next lesson in the gym.Why did they make you wear a shirt in the gym anyway? I know personally it was much more practicable and comfortable without.Finally, I bet also the coach got more than a little muddy inside .

Harold1, I recently finished school so I can answer your question. Most of the time we did wear tops for PE lessons. Yes, it did cause them to be sweaty so they were put in the washing machine after a few lessons. Teams were differentiated using bibs. Cross country, which took place three times a year, was done in a field a few minutes away from the school by coach and was done shirtless because there were sections which were very muddy and slippery and you were guaranteed to fall over.

In reply to your question Harold1, I was at school six years ago and the answer was both - sort of! We did wear T-shirts for our PE lessons but there were a large number of boys in the class so sometimes we had to divide into four or even six teams. When that happened some boys put bibs on over their T-shirts, some stayed as they were and some had to play with no top at all. Personally I liked to be on the shirtless team, it felt more natural and comfortable but some boys didn't see it that way. From reading these comments it looks like I would have enjoyed doing PE 40-50 years earlier!

I can remember those days during PE lessons when we would be exhausted and sweating. Wearing a shirt would have been a nightmare since all the sweat would stick to it and would probably sweat more when wearing one.

Does anyone know whether schools do PE lessons shirtless? And if they wear shirts, how are teams differentiated? Surely bibs would add even more clothing and lead to even more discomfort and sweating?

Rob, sorry I think you misunderstood me when I wrote about wearing speedos. I was talking about speedo jammers, not speedo briefs. For example,

http://www.speedostore.co.uk/mens-endurance-jammer/800722.html

They are a lot tighter and streamlined than normal trunks and are the best for swimming competitively. They cover the leg and thigh hair so there is less friction with the water, allowing for slightly faster swimming. Olympic swimmers wear them, although it's a more expensive version for them!

Rob,
I don't wear speedos to get an advantage. At swimming competitions, everyone wears them so not wearing one would be a disadvantage since you will be a little bit slower. It's also the same reason that everyone wears swim caps on their heads- the friction between the hair and the water slows you down ever so slightly.

Hope that answers your question

Thank you Rob and William for the explanation.

Gerald, yes normally the purpose of wearing underpants is to stop sweat, and other body fluids, from reaching your trousers, but in the gym we used to sweat profusely and unless we all had a change of underwear it was better to wear nothing under our shorts, which were easy to wash,than to replace our sweaty underwear after showering. I never heard anyone complain about not being able to wear anything under their shorts and never felt embarrassed about it.We were all boys and having to strip off and wear just shorts and plimsolls both in the gym and outside, including cross country runs made us feel relaxed about ourselves and more confident.

Gerald, You were expected to sweat during gym, which was why you had a shower nude afterwards. What's the point of a shower if you then put sweaty pants back on? The crotch is the last place you want an accumulation of stale sweat, which was why wearing pants in gym was considered unhygienic.

Charles - that was the experience of quite a few of us, thanks for speaking up. Nothing soft about wearing a jockstrap, indeed quite commonsensical!

Bradley,learning to swim at your old school obviously made you keen to get more involved in the sport.In your quest to
go faster by wearing Speedos does that mean you also have to shave your body hair before competitions?

Charles, You are right, there is nothing soft about a jockstrap but we never saw them. I doubt whether most of us knew what they were, but then I was at school a few years before you. Neither did I see the white nylon shorts that some contributors have described. Ours were cotton like those in the photo

Rob, The photo is exactly like the gym lessons I had at grammar school. As it was taken in 1959, we can be pretty sure from the many comments below that the boys were wearing nothing under their shorts; and it doesn't seem to bother them to judge from the boys on the ropes and the beam. The reason I think is that we were all in the same boat. If I had been the only boy to do a handstand with my legs held, I might well have been embarrassed to have everything under the shorts on display; but the fact that we all did it was a great antidote to feeling awkward. I didn't understand at the time but this relaxed approach gave us confidence.

We became attached to our shorts and really tried to make them last! We grew into them. Rolling the waistband to keep them up also pulled up the legs and made them a tighter fit, which was just as well for a boy of 15 and it made the shorts feel good. I can hear the youngsters saying that this all sounds a bit dodgy, but we really didn't think anything of it.

We all understand why today is so much less relaxed, although I had not realised that there are schools today where the pupils never have showers, but have we thrown the baby out with the bath water? It is hard not to feel sorry for some of the young men today who seem to be so inhibited that they do not remove their chlorine soaked trunks when they have a shower after swimming.

I can't pretend that gym and games were all fun at school. Sometimes we were dreadfully cold but I would rather have had the physical hardship than leave school with hang ups about bodies and body image - not that we knew what body image was.