Burnley Grammar School

Hi Mark,My mother was just the same,there was nothing more difficult than trying to persuade her to allow me to wear long trousers and be treated more like an adult.It was not easy trying to convince my mother,while risking her wrath pouting and showing my displeasure.

This could have been my own secondary school gym back in the fifties, even down to the wall-bars and the wooden horses! The only obvious difference is that while we had to have white shorts, they didn't need to be a uniform pattern, while the kids in the photo seem to have uniform striped shorts.

Although the school uniform list that my parents were sent before I started had specified white cotton shorts and top (underwear vest acceptable) for PE kit, it was somewhat out of date, and by the time I started, the 'powers that be' had decreeed that PE would now be done bare-chested.

Unfortunately, nobody had bothered to warn us newbies of this change in policy in advance, and although most of us had turned up for school on our first day diligently, and largely reluctantly, wearing the vests that we had spent much of the summer holidays spurning, I don't remember anyone being particularly trumatised by the toplessness that ensued when PE came around the next day.

This was in the days when mothers, in particular, were uniformly over-concerned where their offspring and vests were concerned, an era when all kids were expected to wear vests most of the time, most kids were expected to wear vests all of the time and msny kids, tried to avoid wearing vests at all. Finding myself in the former category with strong leanings to the latter, most traumatic for me was going home after that first PE class and nervously revealing to Mum that, not only had I taken my vest off for PE, but that I hadn't put it back on afterwards! I refrained from adding that I saw no need to put it on again tomorrow morning, but Mum sensed that, as far as I was concerned, vests were history and she had better battles to fight - 60 years later, she is still correct.

Mum never gave a reason for the things she did. She was very controlling,ritualistic,and fastidious.

Mum never gave a reason for the things she did. She was very controlling,ritualistic,and fastidious.

Hi Mark,thank you for your reply.What really intrigues me is why our mothers kept us in shorts both up to similar ages,when most boys of my age were in long trousers.Did your mother give you a reason for this practice of keeping you in shorts?

Hi John, no my mother made me wear them. She was not a lady to be argued with

At my all boys secondary school during my time there 1961 to 1966 Corporal punishment was Cane given across the hand by male teachers and Headmaster. As I remember we had only one female teacher and she sent "naughty boys" to a male teacher to administer the cane and he would deal very severly with that lad for "playing up" Miss.

The PE teacher administered the slipper across the behind although I did not experience this, I am told by boys who did, that the slipper was a very painful punishment when you were wearing thin nylon shorts with no underpants.
Apart from the Headmaster, who caned in his study, the cane/slipper was given in front of the class as a warning & deterent to others.

Mark,when I was kept in shorts in the sixties at age 16 it was not common to see boys of that age wearing shorts.
Were you compelled to wear them or did you wear them by choice?

When I was at school discipline was very strict. It did vary and change slightly as we got older. It was also much harsher for boys, who tended to get disciplined in front of the class. At infant and middle until age 12, our teachers were incredibly strict. Boys would get the backs of their bare legs smacked at lot. This was painful and left embarrassing hand marks. And there were two teachers who did actually pull down boys shorts and pants and smack their bare bottoms in front of the whole class. This happened to me and it was awful. As we got older teachers started to use the slipper(a plimsoll) on us. One teacher used it on a daily basis. Boys would have to bend over and touch their toes and then get up to three almighty whacks on their bottoms. The cane was used, but only in private. I never got caned but I remember a boy age 16 being taken out in a careers education class for the cane(stick we called it)
In many ways the worst was to come when we got home. For most of us, including me, if we got spanked at school then we got another at home(usually from mum) If i got home with red marks on my legs then I quickly found myself over mums knee, with my bottom bared, getting a strapping or the hairbrush.
I vividly remember that I got spanked so hard at school at time, that my legs burnt bright red and I had trouble sitting.These are not good memories and some teachers went way too far.

Yes Mike, corporal punishment was also the norm of keeping discipline in class for most schools during the sixties, whether it was the slipper, ruler or strap in some cases, although the cane was usually reserved only for the headmaster.
Would be interesting to hear from readers of this forum what kind of corporal punishment was used at their school.

John, we too were kept in shorts until 16. Not unusual in the 60s.Our mother was very strict and regularly took a strap to our bare bottoms.There were usually marks visible on our legs. yes we had to run the gauntlet at school of getting teased. When we took our showers at school therewas always at least one boy with a well striped bottom

We played Gaelic Football during PE and fielded teams against other schools in a league at my Catholic Secondary School, in the late 80s and early 90s.
The lowest temperature recorded in the UK for the whole of 2014 was in Katesbridge Co Down N Ireland. Not far from my old school.
The football pitch is exposed on one of highest pieces of land in the Courntry and is often frozen solid.
With a title to defend for the school, playing anything other than Gaelic Football was unheard off.
So the older boys had PE outdoors and never used the gym.
I only remember PE in gym for a week after Third Year. As soon as a smaller training pitch was cleared of heavy snow we were back out in it!
I wasn't on the team as I wasn't very good and liked my bed.
The Football team had early morning training sessions, often on frozen ground.
Despite their own liking of thermals and expensive Goretex the Coaches insisted on proper school training kit only for the players. Gaelic Football shorts are pretty short and the jerseys offer little protection over a bare chest.
During the team prematch pep talk the players would remain shirtless, only putting jerseys on after go ahead from coach!

The guys did similar before training. The Coach never said don't wear a vest but any lad that did was given a hard time and called wuss etc, by players and Coaches!

I suppose its a macho toughness many admire! But in our case most of us hated PE as there were only a few team members in each class. Most were looking at the warm empty gym, as we ran out in the snow, dreaming about indoor soccer.

Re the last message the boys are lucky thwese days they can wear underwear. In my day albeit in an all boys school it was tight white nylon shorts no underwear. At least these days it seems lads are proud to show off their designer underwear with low slung jeans so why worry about pe and girls seeing as I expect it is all boxer shorts and not briefs or slips.

Once back in my winter Pe term between January-April 1987 gymnastics was cancelled unexpectedly. When we did gym we wore white shirt, white shorts socks, pumps and underwear (unless you had the wrong t-shirt then you went topless).

Instead we were told to go to the swimming baths we had to undress and put on just our white shorts for our impromptu swimming lesson.

This practice is backed up Phil who has posted on this blog!

http://pekitblog.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/swimming-in-pe-shorts.html

Anonymous said...
The pic reminded me of when my class had to go swimming in white PE shorts. We were meant to do PE outdoors but there was a thunder storm so we had to go to the pool instead. No one had trunks with them so it was white nylon shorts only and yes, they were fairly see through when wet....


Likewise, as soon as we jumped into the pool our white shorts became transparent like Jellyfish basking off the coast of Pennsylvania.

As we came out of the pool to dive off the boards my pre-pubescent member clung to the white see through fabric. Other boys who were much more developed had their hairy penises and large testicles stuck to the white transparent shorts.

Afterwards we showered off with our buttocks stuck to this ethereal second skin that adhered to our private areas. We hurriedly dried off and dressed ready for our next lesson.

It is amazing that even today there are many schools that require boys to wear white shorts where the girls can see their underwear underneath but female modesty is protected by dark shorts.

My parents made me stay in shorts till I was 16.Some of my jackets had hems lower than the bottom of my shorts.Some must have thought seeing me from behind,they probably didn't think I had any trousers on at all.
When I attended secondary school the uniform was navy blue blazer,white shirt and long or grey short trousers.
I remember my parents bought me some very brief shorts when holidaying in Europe and I couldn't believe they expected me to wear them.
Once I had settled in to my new school my peers gradually accepted me wearing shorts and most of the teasing stopped,until the next first years attended and they were intrigued to see a much older boy than themselves wearing shorts with his uniform.
I remember being strapped on the back of my thighs with a ruler and they queued up to look at the vivid marks on my legs.
I found the experience degrading and humiliating.

Edward was unlucky in having to wear short trousers made of scratchy material. None of my regulation school short trousers were like that, and anyway they were always lined with plain white cotton.

When my mother eventually prevailed upon me to wear my first pair of long trousers, I hated them. Besides feeling baggy and heavy they got dripping wet in the rain, whereas previously my shorts had been completely covered by my rain coat. I had to spend all day at school with the soaked long trousers gradually drying out around my legs. Later I got into trouble for wearing down the knees of the long trousers as I played with my train set on the floor.

Thankfully my old shorts had not been thrown out, and I took every opportunity to continue wearing those instead.

Early memories of school are usually happy, but I well remember those grey flannel short pants. It was not even the fact that some boys were in long trousers, but they were so scratchy that I was even grateful for my very unfashionable cream interlock trunks which protected most of my thighs.

28 Years ago in my comprehensive school we were made to get changed after cross country in the school gymnasium, strip naked with all windows uncovered and walk past the girls in the corridor with just a towel covering our penises to the boys showers.

Year 14 girls changed in the girls changing rooms, year 13 girls changed in the swimming pool showers while year 13 boys changed in boys changing rooms but us older boys had to change in the gym. It would not be tolerated today but even so boys are still victims of sex discrimination despite the introduction of the Equalities Act 2010.

In the shower there was no soap, no flannel, no privacy in the walk through wash area and the floor was sodden with liquefied mud. Many schools today have cubicles but there are only 8 shower heads in a typical changing room so in schools where boys have to shower they still have to do the towel dance in the changing room.

In reply to Bill,I do remember boys wearing short trousers which were knee length but as girl's hem lines rose so did boy's shorts.
It became quite fashionable for boys to wear shorts which wear no longer than girl's hot pants which also became fashionable during the seventies.
Certainly boys continued to wear short pants at school during that period but they were in a minority.
I remember one boy wore shorts right through school till he left.
My parents also continued with this anachronistic fashion and my shorts were presented to me on each birthday.
Being in a minority most of my peers found it quite amusing and I was the subject of considerable mockery and teasing.

Andrea, I do remember girls hitching their uniform skirts further up, I guess it was because miniskirts were the fashion in those days.
I also went to an all-boys secondary school, but we had an all-girls school close to ours. We used to meet to chat up before and after school, sometimes during breaks. It was then that the girls used to hitch up their skirt further up. Probably to look more attractive for us boys.
Nice memories. :)
But I think they put them back to near knee length once they entered school. Like you said, it was school rules.

James, I don't remember if it was school rules to wear shorts up to that age, but I think it was common for boys up to about that age, 14, to wear shorts as school uniform. They were knee length anyway and made from thick material. It was probably more comfortable to wear them than long trousers, especially in warm wheather.

Bill,

Our skirts were supposed to be knee length (ie. touch the ground if we knelt down) but we quite often tried to get away with wearing them shorter if we could!

With regard to pe kit at Primary School, as at your school, both boys and girls used to wear a T shirt and shorts or a PE skirt (girls had the choice - I had shorts). We did have to change together though, which involved stripping down to vest and knickers / underpants, before putting on our pe kit. At my (all girls) secondary school the pe kit was polo shirt and gym knickers.

Bill I also wore shorts to school and they were mandatory up to the age of fourteen;I guess they were the equivalent of poor girls like Andrea having to wear short skirts.
I do agree with you that we became accustomed to wearing them all the year round as they were an every day item of clothing.
Like you I wore knee stockings to keep my legs warm but these still kept my thighs cold and exposed to the bitterly cold weather.
It was exceptionally humiliating as during the seventies most boys as young as six were wearing long trousers.
I remember my mum saying'if a boy's short pants aren't cut well above the knee brief and trim therefore he may as well wear long trousers.'

Andrea, I do remember most girls wearing miniskirts, or just short skirts, during the mid-sixties to mid-seventies, even as school uniforms. It was normal back then, even in winter.
If I remember well, some did wear tights in cold weather, though not all. As you say, some schools forbade this. Poor girls.
I also remember wearing shorts all year round till about age 14, and as part of
school uniform.
I also wore woolen socks as part of school uniform, but this still left your knees and part of your legs exposed. But I don't think this affected us much since we were used to it.

Another thing which only a few posters commented about is the custom in some primary schools where both boys and girls were made to do PE lessons in just underpants/knickers.
I wonder how common this was. At my school we always wore white shorts and t-shirt for PE, both boys and girls. But I did hear about other schools doing PE in just underpants.

When I was at school we weren't even allowed to wear tights with our normal school uniform, let alone our PE kit. In winter we had to wear long socks; my legs used to get frozen cycling to and from school in frosty weather!

I agree that lads have gone soft. My 17 year old wears tights under his running shorts for winter Cross Country events, and long johns under his jeans when the frosts come. I suspect he also sleeps in them!

Replying to Gary's comments we've been through the 'soft youth of today' bit before.

I'll simply say that a few weeks ago I saw a group of school boys (mid-teens) in Mid-Wales going back to school after rugby training. All were in 'traditional' rugby gear and none of them looked unhappy about what they'd be wearing and doing. I think a lot goes down to peer pressure, the attitude of the school, etc.

I'm lucky to have 250 acres of common land adjecent to me: much used for football & running. Its interesting to see how the lads who start off the summer in long, baggy shorts do move into shorter ones (and go topless) as the season progresses.

Whatever people say about the 'short' shorts of the late 60s onwards - well, they were the 'fashion' of the day - just find a picture of Bobby Moore receiving the World Cup to see them!

In reply to Bill,yes there were less severe punishments than canings.The slipper was frequently used and quite often we often had our legs smacked when wearing short trousers but the cane was the most painful.
Yes it did sting and was administered by a female teacher on my behind after coming out of the pool.
Your account of events from your friend was very similar to my own which I found very embarrassing and humiliating.

In reply to Bill, yes there was corporal punishment when I was at school. The Headmistress would use the cane (which I never had) and one of the PE teachers would sometimes use a plimsoll (which I did receive on one occasion!).

At primary school (up to age 11) boys and girls used to change together for PE, but we were never naked, just down to vest and knickers / underpants before putting on our PE kit.

At secondary school we had to get naked for a shower after PE, but of course this was supervised by female PE staff. This was a real culture shock when we first started secondary school, but we just had to get used to it!

Andrea

Re Dan's comments. The only time we would see each other naked was when in the communal shower. I was not too worried but I understand that some boys were coy,but as you say we also jhad a few lads who were keen to show off all & sundry i think to brag how big they were.

On another tack, the lads of today seem very soft and cannot stand the cold. Today I have seen a young lad who has just come from playing football. Long shorts, long socks up to above his knees so hardly any flesh uncovered. As we say "in may day" it was thin nylon short shorts and just below knee length socks and freeze. Furthermore goalies did not wear track suit bottoms.

One of the bad things about "the good old days" was in the winter having to wear scratchy wollen underwear, before the days of softer fibres.

Simon, thanks for answering my questions.
I find canings were too harsh in such a situation, especially if the boy was still wet. Were there any less harsh punishments for minor misbehaviour?
From what a friend who went to a similar boarding school told me, the most embarrassing and humiliating moment was at the beginning of the swim class when the boys had to line up for roll call and instructions with their hands at their sides facing the female teachers and any visitors present. They were not even allowed to cover with their hands. But once in the water it wasn't so bad. Was it the same for you?
But I don't think he mentioned that they were ever caned during the swim classes, just a few hand slaps on their bare behinds when necessary I suppose, or possibly a slippering.
That caning you got must have really stung. Was it a female teacher that caned you?