Burnley Grammar School

Yes, the picture brings back memories. I was a boarder at a prep school. We always did pe in just white cotton shorts and plimsolls. If it was sunny, we would go outside and do our lesson on the grass or in the playground. If we went to the tennis courts, we had to walk along the road all stripped to the waist. No one ever gave it a second thought.
For swimming, we had to do the lesson naked. Again, all normal and everyone got on with it. It was a lot easier as you just had to remember your towell.
As a boarded, even at weekends when we went swimming, most boys were naked although we could wear trunks. The ones who wore trunks were generally the weedy one. How things have changed.

I went to BGS from 1959 to 1964.
My memories of Mr Parry are of him taking Detention Class in the afternoon.....and doing Gym work as part of detention :-)

When I went to secondary school we were supposed to wear a vest for PE but there was one lad (who had come from a different junior school) who never wore a vest for PE.In fact he never wore one at all.
Gradually more and more of us followed his example and very soon we were all stripped to the waist.

We used to do PE stripped to the waist whatver the conditions and I think that the girls used to look forward to seeing hunky young lads stripped to the waist!!!!
Also when we did cross-country many of the locals also used to look forward to seeing us all bare-chested and sweaty!!

I too well remember doing PE outside stripped to the waist and barefoot with snow on the ground.
It certainly toughened us up and we certainly used to go about bare-chested whenever we could.

My PE teacher was a keen disciplinarian. Our uniform (or lack of) consisted of brief shorts (no underwear), vest and plimsolls or footie boots. Vests often discarded as a punitive measure or to distinguish teams (shirts vs. skins).

Very similar to my school, also during the 1970s but in southern England. We often did shirts vs skins, but I also remember having to remove my vest as a punishment. On one occasion I got into trouble for cutting corners on laps of the playing field and was made to do them again, this time in just shorts and bare chest. For PE detentions we were always in 'skins', which could be in the gym or outdoors. I never really thought about it at the time but I suppose the idea was to make you feel small and less sure of yourself.

There is also a UK photo on this URL, Lads Shirtless.

Great scene.It brings back memories.Especially of outisde lessons in cold weather clad only in a vest.Are there any other european old movies which have a PE class scene?

This is a very interesting forum which provokes many memories, some good, some bad. However my overriding memory of P E 1970s Northern England is the extreme cold. My PE teacher was a keen disciplinarian. Our uniform (or lack of) consisted of brief shorts (no underwear), vest and plimsolls or footie boots. Vests often discarded as a punitive measure or to distinguish teams (shirts vs. skins).
I recently watched a movie which also brought me back to my teens.
A scene in the film shows lads in a traditional vest and shorts uniform. The thinly clads boys are racing in a snowy park while their teacher and spectators are wrapped up in heavy coats, much like my own PE teacher wore.
Deep End was filmed in 1970 and stars John Moulder-Brown and Jane Asher.
It gave me a chill recalling those harsh winter PE sessions with snow on the ground, biting northern winds and, worst of all, sleet or driving hail stones. We suffered it all but were stronger for it, compared to todays youth who live in over insulated homes and are so susceptible to viruses and colds .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN2kFPVu_A4

viewpoint James! From what you say I'm assuming the boys always went bare chested for PE (as well as detention). Do you think that made you more keen to work hard in PE and develop a good body, knowing the girls would be watching and commenting on it? And did most of the boys in your class feel the same? We sometimes did PE bare chested (vests versus skins) but never in front of the girls and that was only up to the age of 16.


Hi Darren, The boys did indeed go bare chested for all PE/Games lessons (and Gym detentions)and I think it did give a certain motivation for boys to put the extra effort in. It was amusing that girls from all different year groups looked forward to seeing us exercise especially on the colder days. The detentions were the worst as it was just you and the teacher so it made more difficult not to put the required effort in.

Interesting viewpoint James! From what you say I'm assuming the boys always went bare chested for PE (as well as detention). Do you think that made you more keen to work hard in PE and develop a good body, knowing the girls would be watching and commenting on it? And did most of the boys in your class feel the same? We sometimes did PE bare chested (vests versus skins) but never in front of the girls and that was only up to the age of 16.

Darren, the girls used to see us barechested indoors and outside through until I left at 18 and it made no difference even when doing co-ed classes. It was always good natured banter with them remarking on how we looked, discussing it in the classrooms and us wanting to impress them at the slightest opportunity. One of those girls, who later became my wife, still reminds me about a 2hr detention I was given by the PE teacher in the gym and watching a 16 year old me dripping with sweat as the session dragged on.

Interesting how the film focuses totally on the boys even though it's a co-ed class, the girls seem very much in the background. Have to feel sorry for poor Nick, he gets criticised for his lack of ability even though it's the other boy (with the strapping on his leg) who stumbles during the routine! The boys look about 13 or so, I can't help wondering how they felt about being bare chested in front of the girls. Not sure I'd have been comfortable with it at that age (at my school PE classes were single sex).

An interesting piece of film - does anyone know the date? It refers to Key Stage Three which would be late 80s/ early 90s/

The commentary sounds a bit dated but as an example of gym in the UK the 80s its pretty good.

Here's a fairly recently gymnastics class which features the boys shirtless & in shorts while the girls don black leotards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_gb0CUzwX0

Shirtlessness is still de rigueur in several armies around the world.
I have found some pictures of Russian soldiers exercising in what they call uniform no 2.
And judging by the leafless trees in the background you can certainly tell that not all of these pictures were taken on a warm summer's day !

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62386222@N06/8615811441/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62386222@N06/8616923656/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62386222@N06/8616930006/in/photostream/

Hi Paul!

Where is this photo from?Is this was taken from a school's website?
Yes it seems there are still some schools where shirtless PE kit is a rule.

Compulsory shirtless PE seems still to required in some countries today. This photo apparently is of a Polish school:
http://tinyurl.com/c7ck22x

In reply to Tim,I had to change into shorts when I returned home from school,as the wearing of short trousers was not allowed at school.Under my parent's insistence and to keep me dressed identicaly as my younger stepbrother,I had to wear shorts for evenings,weekends and holidays.I prefered wearing long trousers,but as this ritual continued I became quite blase about wearing shorts and became indignant about the derogatory comments.

My father used to keep my and my four younger brothers shirtless nearly all the time.
As soon as we got home from school we had to strip to the waist and remain shirtless for the rest of the day.
We soon got used to it and by summer time we were all quite sun tanned.

have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yQth3QEXtA

@ Dave: Yes, good video.
I do think PE should again be mono-gendered and should much more concentrate on Hard physical work in class (at least 5 1-hour sessions per week)with special emphasis on combatting over-weightness and muscle and general physical developement. PE Teachers should also be gender-specific.
Boys PE should concentrate much more on the forthcoming roles in life of the Boys, in both Sport and Personal Lives.
This might mean some howls of anguish from the "New Breed" of PE Teachers but I think after a few years result in a much better physical fitness profile of the population.

If you watch this video you can see (from 5:15) that all the boys are barechested for massed P.T. None of them seems uncomfortable and unhappy because of the kit they have to wear even in mixed exercises.

http://yorkshirefilmarchive.com/film/childrens-day-leeds

I attended a state Grammar School in the early sixties and altough the official PE uniform did specify a singlet many boys didn't wear them and always did PE stripped to the waist.
More and more of us followed suit and eventually we were all bare-chested in the gym.
Again a few lads went topless outdoors for cross-country and again more and more lads bared their chests and eventually we were all stripped to the waist.
Some were even barefoot both in and out of doors.

Ambrose wrote;
When I was a pupil I thought the dress code for PE was at the whim of the teacher. We were never allowed underwear and were often without shirts; communal showers were compulsory.

Like Ambrose I experienced similar 'whims'.
I entered Boarding School in 1970, aged 15, when my parents moved abroad due to my Father's work as an engineer.
The regime there was brutal.
I soon discovered that some of the items listed on the Games Kit, which my parents purchased, were completely surplus to requirements.
Both games masters were sadists.
Every day of the school year began with a two mile run around the grounds and through the local village. This was year round in just a thin pair of shorts and trainers.
We were predominately shirtless for games including table tennis and cricket. Bare soles and chests in gym, except in teams when it was bibs vs skins. Only one set of bibs were ever issued, despite a huge supply in various colors.
Bare soles and chests outdoors were our games masters whims.
In the evenings other whims included open ended circuit training sessions with no set finishing time.

Some boys hated it and others tried to impress their hardness.

Archie let me reply to your latest questions.

In the normal course of events I didn't catch that many boys up to things they shouldn't have been around the school. Those who I did catch, usually the smokers who for some reason thought a corner outside the gym was a good place to smoke were invited inside for the cane. Smoking got six on the bare bottom without exception.

In such circumstances a boy would be told to take off his blazer and drop his trousers and underpants before bending over a hurdle we kept there for just that purpose.

Also, close to the sports complex were the music rooms. The head of music was a delightful lady in her late fifties and coming up to retirement. As a colleague she was great fun and often the life and soul of a party.

As a teacher, she was mercilessly baited by the boys and unfortunately she used to rise to it. Her lessons often used to descend into chaos and she could not regain control. It was a pity because she really knew her stuff, she taught me to play the piano which was something I had always wanted to do and she was a superb teacher.

Needless to say, I and my colleagues used to pass by the music room and there was a large glass panel in the door which was at the back of the room and we could observe the class without being seen.

With her tacit agreement we would often pause for long enough to determine who the ringleaders were in any particular class and then quietly enter the room and summon them out for a 'discussion'. That usually had the effect of sobering up the whole class in an instant.

The boy or boys summoned for a discussion made their way to the changing room where they were invited to explain their behaviour, I never yet heard a satisfactory explanation and so delivered a just punishment. A first offender got four, a second offender six and a repeat offender eight, always with the cane.

The boy or boys would then be escorted back to the music class, usually with tears in their eyes and told to take a seat at the front where everyone could see them. Usually I delivered a warning that I was close by and that there was plenty more of the same available for anyone who wanted it as an alternative to working hard for the rest of the lesson.

I also used to deliver the odd warning in my classes that any boy I caught misbehaving in music classes was guaranteed a sore bottom.

It's unfortunate that my original observations on how PE training and supervision has changed seem to have deteriorated into a prurient discussion on caning naked bottoms.
George's original response confirms that we were trained to be naked around boys; in my case in an inner city secondary modern/comprehensive school rather than a single sex private school. The rational behind our training was that we would not appear aloof to the pupils, and that nudity was not something to be shy about. Showering naked together was for no other purpose than to encourage cleanliness and confidence in pupils and to dispel any sense of unnecessary modesty; nobody saw any ulterior motives, and of course any touching was strictly discouraged.
It was not until the 80's that the situation changed, for whatever reason, and nowadays a teacher appearing naked in front of pupils is likely to lose his job for supposed indecency. How have standards deteriorated to this neurotic state? Are their now more teachers with an unhealthy interest in their pupil's bodies?

What are the views of older or retired teachers, or of pupils who saw their teachers naked?

Incidentally, at my school only the Head was allowed to cane;and although we used the slipper, no pupil was ever punished on a bare backside!

I'm glad I didn't go to George's school; swimming naked, pe stripped to the waist, no underpants - none of that would have bothered me, but that 20 - 25% of boys at any time bore the marks of caning suggests to me that the custom was widely practiced. I wonder if there was any standardisation to caning or whether the number of strokes was on the whim of the master administering the punishment. Wearing underpants in pe, for instance, would hardly be the most serious "crime" that a boy could commit yet did it make any difference in relation to other contraventions of school rules?

When we played football etc.stripped to the waist the teams were identified by wearing different coloured shorts.

George - thanks for your latest reply. Slightly off topic, but I was wondering how you dealt with lads who were being caned or slippered but who were not already in PE kit - perhaps, if you caught a boy doing something and made him report for punishment at a particular time.

Presumably you still caned/slippered their bare backsides? Did they keep the rest of their uniforms on with just their trousers and pants round their ankles, or did they have to strip entirely? Did they just bend over and touch their toes or did you have them bend over something?

Did you often slipper or cane other than during a PE lesson?