Burnley Grammar School

So Andy did that mean you did not want to wear anything in bed? Is that what your friends did?

All sounds very familiar - "you can leave your vest off until it gets cold" "But Mum none of the other boys wear a vest, Steve doesn't wear pj's either !!"

Claire, see these these for example.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/schools-encouraged-adopt-no-shoes-policy-improve-pupils-learning-and-behaviour-a7044576.html

https://philmaffetone.com/kids-shoes/

https://www.timeslive.co.za/sunday-times/lifestyle/health-and-sex/2018-10-26-barefoot-is-better-for-kids-new-study-shows/

Chris G. You said (2 Sep) that, after a summer of not wearing a vest and sleeping topless, when cooker weather returned you were expected to be wearing vests and PJ tops again. Did you manage to dispense with these next summer, and did you get to go without them altogether while living with your parents?

William, any citations available?

There has been recent research (like 2010s) which showed that wearing footwear in childhood is harmful, hampers feet physical development (adult footwear manufactured in western world is for damaged feet) and puts body in a stressed state, in some experimental barefoot schools children have much lower aggression levels and better focus, the researchers explained that it makes them feel like at home, they also suggested that universities should handle tests barefoot or in socks for better results. You can google it, I read it some months ago and those were several independent studies, not just one.

Gareth - the grey cells are getting a bit rusty, but there were periods when it was definitely commando, and always in shorts, although at this range, I can't remember how long these periods were or when they started and finished etc. The summer leading up to my 11th birthday was warmer, and more consistently so, than usual, and this was the first occasion when Mum actually encouraged me to leave my vest off for an extended period of time and when Dad introduced me to sleeping without a PJ top. I have a particular memory of getting up and of taking my PJ bottoms off and putting on just my shorts, shirt and sandals., together with the childish sense of pride that when I went out dressed like this, people could see everything that I was wearing. I think I must have gone commando for a number of summers before that, and I know I did for at least one summer after but I do know that when we started doing PE topless when I was about 13, I had just progressed from school shorts to long trousers, and i don't remember ever going commando in those.

Chris G
Did meaning leaving off your briefs meant that you went commando in the summer, and was that atb school in long trousers or shorts?

Philip,

I too wore shorts up to the same age as yourself,although they were not compulsory at the secondary school that I attended.
I was never given an explanation as to why I had to wear shorts at that age,but I suppose it was to teach me humility and respect for my elders.

James,

We had to wear shorts at school up to the age of thirteen and then longs were optional to the age of sixteen. I had to wear shorts until I was almost sixteen for school - there was plenty of 'wear' left in them and the same at home.

Some of the accounts of past atrocities committed against young children by PE teachers are horrifying. Even today there are many schools which force kids to go bare foot in the gym while offer schools permit or require Plimsolls/trainers.

It is time to stop the practice of bare foot PE to prevent verrucae and to increase child protection.

Here are some offending secondary schools.

https://www.ketteringscienceacademy.org/_site/data/files/links/A1C0E67836FE602295DAD230C5836BFE.pdf

On occasion, pupils may be asked to be bare foot in the sports hall. Fitness suite.

https://www.wadebridge.cornwall.sch.uk/assets/file/PE%20DEPARTMENT%20FREQUENTLY%20ASKED%20QUESTIONS%20updated%20Oct%202014.pdf

PE LESSONS
What sports will I do in PE lessons?
In Years 7,8 and 9 activities are compulsory. Activities include;
BOYS – Healthy Lifestyles, OAA, Rugby, gymnastics, swimming, football, badminton, cricket,
athletics and in year 9 volleyball.
GIRLS – Healthy Lifestyles, OAA, Netball, badminton, swimming, hockey, dance, gym, tennis,
rounders, athletics and in year 9, trampolining and health related fitness
In Years 10 and 11 there is a choice of activities available and pupils choose a PE Strand
which they follow in autumn and spring term.
The strands group activities such as football, rugby etc, dance, trampolining etc and
badminton, volleyball etc. There is also a Leadership option in year 10 and 11 where you can
gain a recognised qualification.
In summer pupils can choose different activities which include; surfing, cricket, athletics,
extreme golf, street surfing, ultimate frizbee, rounders and athletics.
What is the PE KIT?
All pupils are required to wear the ‘HUMMEL’ Wadebridge School PE Kit for EVERY lesson. The
PE kit is ALL supplied through the school supplier ‘Proserve’ and is purchased at the beginning
of Year 7 or at any time after if kit needs replacing.
http://www.proservegroup.com/www.proservegroup.coms/info.php?p=2&cat=379993
Yellow HUMMEL T-Shirt, Black HUMMEL Shorts and Long Black HUMMEL Socks. Footwear will
depend on the activity and boots are essential for Football and Rugby in Autumn and Spring
term.
Shin pads are compulsory for football and hockey and gum shields are highly recommended
for both.
As part of the Wadebridge PE Kit there is a wind/shower proof jacket suitable for all outdoor
activities. This is an optional piece of kit but is recommended for Autumn and Spring activities.

For Gym it is expected that all pupils will take part in bare feet.

https://www.rainhillhighschool.org.uk/parents/school-uniform

PE Kit expectations
The PE kit is part of your child’s school uniform and the correct kit needs to be worn. We fully suggest that your son/daughter brings their fleece to every lesson as this will be the only outer layer they are permitted to. Along with their t-shirt, shorts and socks girls can wear ALL BLACK leggings that can be purchased from school and boys can bring ALL BLACK tracksuit bottoms (in the event of very cold weather). A black base layer can be worn under t-shirts and shorts again, in the event of cold weather.

Performing arts
Key stage 3 dancers- expected to wear school uniform & remove ties, shoes, socks and blazers.

Key stage 4 dancers- expected to wear PE kit and bare feet, or leggings and a t-shirt. No cropped tops.

It is time we ended the bare feet requirement and introduced a gender nuetral PE Kit that includes base layers and tracksuit bottoms. Football & rugby should no longer be a requirement for males and we should bring sport into the 21st century.

Philip,up to what age did you have to wear shorts?

Jonno, Gareth, James, Turner et al

You have taken me right back to my own childhood, and the twice-yearly ritual of changing from Winter to Summer underwear and vice versa.

For several years, I too had the torment of itchy woollen half-sleeved vest and pants in Winter, cotton in Summer, although I have no memory of my pants showing below the legs of my achool uniform short trousers. Until she was in her fifties, Mum religiously wore a vest, winter and summer alike, although she always denied this in her later years, and she did her utmost to ensure that I followed her example. To add insult to injury, I was expected to wear my vest under my PJ top at night, except in hot weather, when the PJ top rather than the vest was the discarded item, Even from my first days at school, I envied the kids who never seemed to have to wear vests, itchy or otherwise. Thankfully, by the time I moved up to secondary school, I was wearing cotton singlets and Y-front briefs throughout the year, although in hot weather, Mum's approach to "casting a clout" was for me to leave off the briefs rather than the vest, and I don't think I was alone among my peer gtroup in this.

I was nearly eleven before I spent a sizeable part of a summer minus a vest during the day and, by extension, at night as well, and it was during this period that I was introduced to sleeping topless, although once cooler weather returned, so too did vests and PJ tops. As I have posted here before, it was another couple of years before I finally got rid of vests altogether, a process triggered by the introduction of topless PE in my third year of secondary school.

Gareth,

If you were at all like me you wore what your mother told you to and any argument about that was dealt with by my father with me bent over the back of a chair and my shorts and underpants at my ankles!

I did get away with wearing vests though which I hated, I just didn't put them on but did put them out for the wash so my mother was never any the wiser or if she was, she didn't let on.

I think string vests and underpants were a fashion at one time, at first I was the only lad wearing them but over time a few more started to. I'm not sure they were ever fashionable though. I do remember coloured briefs appearing not that I was ever allowed them at home and they might just about have been fashionable but they did have the disadvantage of being made of nylon as opposed to cotton which at least white briefs were.

Phillip
As I commented in an earlier posting I remember the string briefs also I wore the string vests, which could often be seen through shirts. I do not why we wore them perhaps it was a fashion statement rather similar to people who nowadays wear their trousers at "half mast" to show off their designer pants!!!

I escaped trunks and going to grammar school in 1970 the uniform list specified white briefs. I was horrified when my mother produced string ones with only a solid cotton pouch and the rest was very see through mesh.

I was aghast at the idea of changing for PE but of course that fear was set aside at the first lesson when we were told 'when changing, you take off your underpants' by the master and so I was no worse off than anyone else and at least the string briefs were comfortable as was bare under PE shorts.

Johnno/Gareth

I also remember being in that predicament when our white trunks would show below our short trousers.It usually happened when I was standing at the front of the class and reciting something,which made it all the more difficult to pull my trunks up or pull my shorts down.
It always received a lot of giggles from my classmates until I was allowed to sit back at my desk.

Johnno
I Also remember the trunks showing beneath the grey uniform shorts in junior school. The worst thing in the winter was that the trunks were woollen and they itched like mad. I was glad for some relief in the summer when I went back to cotton.

Hi All, Reading about boys underwear back in your schooldays, in my senior days 1959 to 1963 my underwear hardly altered, white cotton trunks or eyelet ones, and vests to match, my complaints to my mother were always answered by "if they are good enough for your dad, they are good enough for you!". I complained that they showed below my school shorts, all she did was sew the hem up ! I was glad when I got long trousers at 13, but still had to wear trunks even though I pointed out briefs were the norm now. Didn't get teased though because I wasn't the only one who wore that style back then, although at times when horsing around at playtime other boys would try to pull the hems down.

Turner I agree with what you have written about the modern underwear. My main angst is the lack of choice in pattern and colours for briefs. Mainly dark blue or black where as boxers come in a variety of patterns.

Gareth

l know what you mean about those horrible trunks. At primary school l initially wore Aertex briefs but one day when we were changing for PE one of the girls said "l can see our bottom" meaning through the material. l was mortified and asked my mother to get me pants you couldn't see through. She went too far and bought me those loose-fitting M & S trunks for years. At grammar school nearly every boy wore briefs and after two or three years l got her to buy me briefs like everybody else.
The close-fitting trunks they wear now, or even worse so-called boxer shorts, look so uncomfortable l simply don't know why they choose them. An exception would be the men whose size is best disguised with large pants.

I remember the arguments with my nan (I was raised by here because my mum had died) and dad about I do not need to wear a vest, which were singlets. But I did not win that argument until I was 16 and went out to work. Before that it was "we buy your clothes" and I had no say in the choice. I always wanted to wear briefs but I was always had some horrible ill fitting trunks bought for me. Then at last when I got to secondary school I had briefs mainly I insisted that they were bought for me to stop the teasing because when we changed for pe all the other boys had briefs and they thought me old fashioned for wearing the trunks. How time have changed!
When I started work the string briefs were coming into fashion and my nan and dad thought they were unusual. "You don't want to wear them!" But as I say I was working and so could make my own choice of what I wore.

To answer the questions asked :-

To start with I guess aroud half the boys wore a vest under their shirts (this is late 60's, aged 11/12). In PE/games you soon realise that other boys don't, so "Mum, I don't need a vest now"

White briefs were normal then, but coloured ones just coming into fashion. Why a rule ? I think it's just about control/conforming/doing as you're told - same as being stripped to the waist for pe/xc, simple really a teacher says "no vests boys" and 30 boys are strip their tops off immediately.

Like Gareth, I fail to understand the obsession that certain schools have with their pupils' underwear. If a child, boy or girl, chases to wear coloured rather than white underpants/knickers/whatever, why is that of any concern to anyone other than the child and its parent(s)? It's certainly not anything that the school need be concerned with. Likewise, if a child chooses to wear an additional garment under their shirt/blouse, surely a t-shirt is as valid a choice as a singlet/vest. What's more, given the relative transparency of the contemporary school uniform shirt/blouse, either garment is going to show through and a t-shirt is probably less intrusive from this point of view.

Stuart
I wonder why the school uniform specified that you must wear white briefs or trunks. Who would know and why does it matter to the school?

Stuart
How many of you were still wearing vests at that point?

James

Both long and short trousers were allowed, but the vast majority of boys wore long trousers from day 1.

Typical uniform, navy trousers, blazer, black shoes/socks, white long sleeved shirt, school tie.

Vest (if worn) had to be "proper" vest, not t-shirt, white briefs/trunks.

Stuart,did you have uniform requirement at the grammar school that you attended where you wore short trousers or long trousers?

I was the first in my family to go to grammar school, working class lad etc (this was late 60's).

The uniform/kit list arrived - normal uniform requirements, white pe shorts, white house banded vest, plimsolls, white socks.

Our neighbour had a son at the school (a year older than me). Just get him a pair of shorts was their advice, that all they are allowed to wear for pe, same for cross country.

We had one indoor pe lesson a week, one cross country - all we wore was shorts, winter or summer.

Dave,
I can’t see any problem with you deciding that the kit for the traditional fitness sessions would be shorts only. As you say no parents complained when you sent them a letter. Exercising shirtless is comfortable and natural, most male gymnasts train shirtless. I never had an issue with doing indoor PE stripped to the waist, it amazes me that so many commentators get so worked up about it. My dad only wore shorts for indoor PE when he was at Senior school and my parents were happy with the rule for my brother and I.