Burnley Grammar School

Lee, I know what you mean having that sinking feeling. Our PE teacher started our first lesson by singling me out to the front of the class before shouting "Right lad, vest off now!' That was my introduction to bare chested PE. After about a couple of months we were told x-country runs would start so being unsure about wearing a top we all lined up outside wearing our pale blue school vests simply to be told to strip down. We then started to do full PE lessons outdoors either skins vs vests or more commonly skins vs skins too. In the gym it was normal to see vests clinging to upper bodies and sweat running down the skins team. We were always pushed hard indoors or outside. I was good at sports and was on school teams. When you represented the school for x-country or boxing you stripped to the waist regardless. It was quite amusing doing x-country competitions on winter with no vest/t-shirt on, it often resulted in the other school reluctantly making their lads strip off too just to save face. All our PE teachers stood no nonsense and each treated us the same way too. Being made to strip to the waist so much also had an unexpected surprise. My future wife first saw me at an inter-schools boxing event when I was 16. All lads were expected to box without vests on which went down very well with the audience. I made it as far as the final before losing heavily. I was also on the basketball team
When we played, one team started in vests and stripped off at halftime while those who were skins wore a vest for the second half.

James, well the issue that always stood out for me with the girls' kit was that they were meant to wear the black knickers underneath their gym skirts.

Us lads never had any rules about our underpants, we could wear them under our PE shorts. I suppose with hindsight I would have preferred slightly longer shorts, our football-style shorts did gape open occasionally if you weren't careful when you were sitting down! So from that point of view I can see why you might not have liked the shorts, yeah.

It's clear that the answers on here are from people who went to school in all sorts of different eras, it's been quite interesting to me to see how it differed in the 70s and early 80s for example.

Adam,I agree it was probably as issue that girls wore skirts for PE as it was the same for boys wearing their shorts.
I too wasn't particularly good at PE,but wearing shorts all the time was something that I had to accept.

Thanks for the welcome Rob! Interesting that you surmised our PE teacher was new to the job. Because, effectively, he was. We knew from others that it was only his second year at the school the year we started there. He was actually a young bloke, almost certainly straight out of teacher training that year before. Which, with hindsight, kind of made me wonder about his tough attitude and demeanour. As others have said, previously a lot of them had PE teachers who came from the Army, or had done Military Service. This fella wouldn't even have been born during Military Service times, let alone been conscripted! So his really rather hard methods were a bit of an enigma. Maybe he himself had had a really tough PE teacher, and it fed through to him? Whatever, we had little choice but to do what we were told. (Not that I really remember anyone questioning it that much, to be honest. We just accepted it as the way things were I suppose.)

Interestingly it appears he didn't mellow with time either. A neighbour's son started at that school the year after I left, and he told his parents the teachers were all OK, but the PE teacher was very scary! I remember this boy's dad asking me if I knew who his son was referring to. I certainly did! But I also said "Don't worry. Yes he's a tough man, but he has never broken any rules. They would've got rid of him if he had."

Seems you were a lot more at ease with shirtless PE from the start than I was. Well done you! I can still remember the sinking feeling when we walked into the changing room that very first lesson, and there, on one side of the room, was this big communal shower area. I knew, without a shadow of a doubt, we'd be going in there later. And to then, a few minutes later in the gym, get shirts vs skins thrust upon on us......well, it wasn't good!

But, yeah, time worked. He was clearly never going to bend, so we all had no choice but to get used to shirts vs skins, then all lads shirtless, and obviously naked communal showers. And get used to it I did. Which then progressed to being totally relaxed with the whole set up. And anyway, like you say, when you're worked hard in a hot gym, of course you get sweaty. And when you're worked hard out on a marsh of a rugby pitch, of course you get caked in mud. And nothing better after either of those than a shower!

James, yes I had shorts for things like summer holidays. I wasn't very sporty out of school, but PE didn't put me off wearing shorts or anything.

I can see where the girls were coming from with their complaints about their kit. For them the issue was having to wear skirts *for PE*, and not about skirts as a garment in general.

Kevin,
In the 1970s in the North of England Education Authorities had PE Advisors, they would formulate policy for the PE curriculum for Primary & Secondary Schools and yes Health & Safety did exist back then with the Health & Safety At Work Act 1974 being a major piece of legislation. PE Advisors would then instruct Headteachers to implement their advice, Headteachers would consult with School Governors and new policies or rules would be implemented in all Local Authority Schools. At age 9 my school decided that boys would no longer wear vests for PE and would in future do PE lessons stripped to the waist. My parents were happy with this change but some parents disliked it. One of the reasons for not allowing boys to wear tops was because there had been a few incidents where boys had been using wall bars, ropes and beams and if upside down had sustained serious injuries because their vests had fallen over their heads. Another reason was that most lads in the 1970s wore vests underneath their school shirts, they wore the same vest for PE. They got hot and sweaty doing PE and kept this vest on for the rest of the day after they got dressed and put their shirts and jumpers back on. Primary Schools had no shower facilities. Wearing a sweaty and damp vest for the rest of the school day was clearly not hygienic. My brother and I and our friends were happy to do PE stripped to the waist as it was far more comfortable. It was a sensible rule and I personally don’t understand why it still isn’t in practice today.

Lee, welcome to the forum. it sounds as though your ''hard bloke PE teacher '' was new to the job. I went to an all boys grammar school a good few years earlier than you but we didn't play team games in the gym. Like you we had two single PE sessions in the gym and one double games session outside per week. Our outdoor kit was the same as yours while our indoor kit was listed as black shorts , white T shirt and black plimsolls. (no mention of socks). My mum had heard from friends who had boys at the school that ''they ran around with nothing on on top'', so it came as no surprise at the start of the first PE lesson when we were all told to strip off completely, including pants and socks, and to come back into the gym wearing just shorts and plimsolls. This wasn't a problem for me as at that time it was quite normal for boys to get their shirts off when they were playing outside at home together. However, at the end of the lesson we were told to go back to the changing room and get in the showers and it took me a lot of courage to go naked into the open communal showers but I soon got used it. During our PE lessons we did a lot of fitness and circuit training and were worked hard so that were sweating profusely and needed a shower every time to freshen up.
I am wondering how you managed to overcome your initial shyness about taking your shirt off to being able to go shirtless from the second year onwards and even go naked in the showers. Whatever, it was good to know that, like me, you got to enjoy your experience so much.

Kevin asked a question yesterday; "Was it a matter of schools' policies or down to individual PE teachers with a tough ,spartan approach?"

I could be wrong, but I think back in my day (as I said in my first comment this was late 80s > early 90s) policies for PE were delegated to the local authorities. Some kept it there, and others chose to hand it down to the schools themselves. This would be borne out by the fact, whilst my class was made to do every indoor PE lesson stripped to the waist, I had a couple of mates in another local secondary school, and they never went shirtless for PE.

I then think it could go even further. If schools who had been given the decision making from the local authorities wanted to do so, they could then delegate those decisions down to the PE teachers themselves. The reason I think this might have been the case is I sometimes saw lads in my school who had the other PE teacher to us, coming out of the gym after their lessons, and they always had tops on. (And half with school bibs over their tops if they'd had a team sport.)

So, yeah, depending on which school you were at, I reckon the PE policies were decided by either the local authority, the school itself, or the individual teachers. I happened to be at a school where it was down to the PE teachers, and of the two at my school, I was in the class of the tough one........and he required all boys to be shirtless for indoor PE. Whether that meant I drew the short or long straw is a matter of everyone's personal opinion! (For me, it was the short straw in the early days, but that straw grew longer the more we had to do PE bare-chested.)

Pretty sure the policy decision-making would be a lot more standardised these days??

When I was at school I hated PE and Games. I wasn’t sporty, I was skinny and unpopular.

A couple of decades later I found the gym and a PT who has helped me to achieve goals and enjoy exercise. I wish I could have come to that realisation and made progress in school.

In terms of training gear. When I started out I went for the longest shorts and an oversized t-shirt. As I have seen results and grown in confidence the shorts have got shorter and I’ll go for a vest or shirtless for the upper body sessions.

I have taught in British comprehensive schools since 2004, starting out in Rye Sussex. Later I worked in both the North East and the Midlands. I can honestly say that in no school I have ever worked in has it been a requirement for boys to be stripped to the waist for gym and certainly not for outdoor sports. With the increase in Co-Ed education if it happened it would be long ago in the past by now. Any old school teacher trying to implement it or encourage it would be very unlikely to get her/his way.

Some boys liked semi-nude PE, but for most of us it was a case of getting used to it because we had to and certainly not relishing exercise in the gym with almost nothing on, or having to go on a run like that. From some comments posted, it seems this style of PE was still around as late as the nineties. Was it a matter of schools' policies or down to individual PE teachers with a tough ,spartan approach?

Thanks Adam, did you wear shorts out of school or just for sports?

Thanks James. I was at school between 1991 and 96. We didn't have any rules like shirts vs skins, or only wearing shorts in PE at my school.

We all wore a t-shirt and shorts for PE at my primary school, so I think it was a 'culture shock' for the girls to go up to secondary and then need the gym skirt & knickers instead. When we were in Year 9 they were allowed shorts, and most were in tracksuit bottoms by Year 10.

By contrast our PE kit never changed once in my 5 years in secondary school.

Rob, and others: In my seven years in secondary school, I only had topless PE for about three years. For the remainder of the time we wore white cotton vests, generally our ordinary underwear vests (school 1) or white heavy cotton T-shirts or rugby shirts (school 2) depending on the activity. Underpants were optional, and largely dispensed with in the early years, but as we "developed", swimming trunks and ultimately jock-straps were favoured. Looking back from a rather long distance, I know which upper garment option I preferred, but sadly it didn't last very long as I changed schools after my O-level year. A grojup of us even tried to persuade the PE master and the Headmaster that topless PE was healthier, but to no avail.

Interesting stuff, reading through many of the comments. Thought I would start contributing.

I went to an all boys secondary school in Kent. Late 80s / early 90s. Of course by then there was no caning, slippering etc, and nobody was ever made to do PE in just his underpants. (Forgotten kit meant you went to the store cupboard and found something in the stash of bits of skanky old kit they had there.) Other than that though, much of the stuff from the 50s-70s I've been reading about on here applied to us.

There were three PE sessions a week. Two single lessons (always in the gym) and one double (90%-ish of the time outside on the pitch/field.) The regulations stated outdoor kit was rugby shirt (in the school colours, red and black), black shorts, black socks, and football boots. Indoor kit was blue top and shorts, black socks, and trainers.

Most of us knew from older brothers, friends, rumours etc that lessons in the gym didn't necessarily follow that guide! Our first lesson was indeed an indoor one. The hard bloke PE teacher told us that all of these lessons would be team sports; usually basketball or indoor football. And that he would spilt us into teams at the start of each lesson. Which he then did on that first day. We had to line up, shoulder to shoulder, facing forward. He then started at one end and pointed to the first lad, and said loudly 'one'. He pointed at the next boy and shouted 'two'. And then he walked along the line pointing at each of us in turn, shouting 'one' 'two' etc. Once he'd finished, out came "1's stay as you are. 2's you're skins." I was a 1, and thus mightily relieved! I felt so sorry for the 2's being made to take their tops off, and then spend the whole lesson playing bare-chested.

Next indoor lesson I was a 1 again. Phew! I get to keep my top on! Except that lesson he said "2's stay as you are. 1's you're in skins. Shirts off NOW!" And this was my introduction to shirtless PE. Hated it at first, especially as you never knew which team you were on when he was numbering you. He clearly planned it that way. You'd spend the whole time thinking "What number will I be? And will that be shirt on or stripped to the waist?" You never knew until he announced his decision. (Other than the very occasional lesson when he walked along and just pointed at random lads and shouted "skin" until he had us divided in half.) And this went on all year.

As I say I hated it as first, but when you realise there's no way around it, you have no choice but to get used to it. And most of us did. We were all in the same boat together.

Then, at the start of the second year, there was a note attached to our new timetable that said "All boys must bring both indoor and outdoor shorts to indoor PE lessons." So, of course, we were wondering what that was all about. The following day was our first indoor/gym lesson of the year, and all became clear! We had the usual line up in the gym, and the dividing by '1,2,1,2....'. He then told us his new rule going forward was all team games indoors would now be skins v skins, rather than shirts v skins. And one of the two teams was sent back to the changing room to put their outdoor shorts on, so that we could differentiate between our team and the opponents. He also told us he'd be bringing in more activities for indoor PE (basically circuits, fitness training etc) and we would all be shirtless for those. He finished with something like "In summary, lads, you will all do all of my indoor lessons this year bare-chested. Shorts, socks and trainers only." And it wasn't just that year....he had us stripped to the waist for all indoor sessions until the end of compulsory PE. And most of us loved it by then. I would go back and do it all over again.

He worked us hard - VERY hard - in his lessons, the gym was always hot, and every lad soon ended up shining with sweat. I can't imagine wearing a shirt for that. And, yeah, if anyone's wondering, showers were compulsory, communal and naked. And he saw to it everyone conformed. But I've prattled on enough for now, so I can talk about that, outdoor lessons, and other memories in future comments. Or if anyone wants to e-mail me, that's fine. Happy to chat. I've included my e-mail address.

Andy,
We had the shorts only rule for PE and cross country but were allowed to wear trainers for running. I bet you didn’t have a problem with being shirtless.

We had a shorts only (no underpants) rule for PE at grammar school - all boys, until one day while out running, a lad cut his foot badly and had to be taken to hospital. Plimsolls became the norm from then on and as for the lad, at the next lesson when he couldn't join in anyway because of his bandaged foot which had stitches in it, he was given six of the best for being so careless!

Imagine that happening now.

Adam,thank you for your reply,I considered that girls were more appropriatley dressed than boys simply because the kit as you describe is a more comprehensive list for girls,as at my school all we were allowed to wear for our sporting activities were our shorts.

James, thanks for the reply. I thought the girls would have worn skirts, yeah.

I'm surprised you said: "I always thought that the girls were more appropriately dressed for our sporting activities than the boys." though. I know the girls at my school absolutely hated their gym skirts!

Rob,
You were lucky, my brother went to a boys only senior school and had a much happier time than I did. The shirtless PE rule was a good one, it was far more comfortable exercising without a top. Just because a few lads may have preferred to wear a top was no reason to change a sensible policy that had been normal practice for lads in many UK Primary and Secondary Schools for many decades.

John, I understand how it must have been for you and appreciate how fortunate I was to have gone to an all boys school. I remember there were boys of all shapes and sizes but no-one ever commented. Like you, I enjoyed exercising without a shirt and saw no need to wear one, but no doubt there may have been some who would have rather have been allowed to cover up.

Toby - You are right - running cross country shirtless and barefoot was not as bad as it sounds. Plimsolls would have been useless in mud and would have required cleaning. Bare feet gave more grip and were easily washed in the showers. Feet get softer with age if shoes are worn most of the time so kids feet should be able to cope with running over most surfaces without shoes. I used to enjoy running on the pavements, dirt tracks, muddy sections and the edges of ploughed fields.
I'm not sure whether being barefoot or stripped to the waist felt colder in the winter - neither was too bad. It was how we did all p.e. so we just got on with it and no-one came to any harm.

Rob,
Perhaps you were a good looking well built lad that the girls fancied as opposed to a skinny or fat lad that the girls made fun of. I was a skinny lad and got verbally bullied by girls at my Co Ed school. I would have been happier at a boys only senior school. Your encounter with the girls was brief, I had to put up with them on a daily basis.

John, although I went to an all boys school where we always wore just black shorts and plimsolls and nothing else for PE it always felt good when we went past the gates of the girls school on a cross country run and there was often a group of girls who used to admire our bare chests.

Andrew C
You clearly had a great PE teacher, I much preferred it when shirtless PE was brought in when I went to school and shirtless cross country was a lot more pleasant than having a hot sweaty top stuck to your back. Most lads prefer exercising shirtless once they’ve experienced it a few times.

Adam,

The girls wore t-shirts and skirts and it was a secondary school that I attended.

Despite the "official" PE kit being a blue or white vest depending on which class you were in. It was made crystal clear at the start of our first PE lesson that we would be stripped to the waist at all times in the gym. Outside depended on the activity, x-country was always barechested and football was games shirts vs skins or vests depending on the teachers mood. Outdoor fitness sessions were again vests vs skins. For those who represented the school or county teams, there were additional fitness tests always performed barechested outside likewise any selection event to make it on a team. I left school in June 1999.

James - just to clarify some points.

1) What did the girls wear during your PE lessons?

2) Are you talking about primary or secondary school?

For context, "PE" at my secondary school in the 1990s was a mixed lesson, with your form group. We wore our usual PE kits for everything except gymnastics.

We had a "Summer" kit of a white polo shirt, white ankle socks and white trainers. For 'bottoms' us lads had black football shorts, and the girls had black gym skirts & knickers.

In the winter we all swapped the polo shirt for a long-sleeved yellow reversible rugby top and the socks for black knee socks.

When we had gymnastics everyone was barefoot, the girls had leotards and footless tights. Us lads kept our football shorts but also had a black vest just for gymnastics.

We were never stopped from wearing underwear under our shorts. The only underwear 'rule' anywhere in PE was that the girls were supposed to wear black knickers under their gym skirts.

For outdoor sport (football, rugby, cross country) we wore a reversible rugby shirt. I found it so heavy, particularly in the rain. I’d have preferred a lighter alternative or to go shirtless.

We used to wear football boots for cross country runs which were all routed through fields or on dirt paths. That at least meant there was no trouble with grip.

This afternoon I’ve been rubbing down the plaster on a ceiling which made he so hot and sweaty that I had to take my t shirt off to cool down. It reminded me of how unpleasant it was doing PE before the shirtless rule for lads PE was introduced at my school.