Clitheroe Royal Grammar School

I was once told that boys behave better if they don't wear shirts in PE.

Could somebody explain how and why?

Alyson.

I very much doubt sweat had anything to with it. I don't really think there is any one actual reason for going bare chests in gym rather than wearing tops. Some teachers just preferred us that way I guess and in some schools it was just the done thing for boys in PE. Nobody ever thought to actually ask the question - why are you asking/telling us to do PE without any top on.

In my case it was a constant gym PE thing that boys went to PE in bare chests when it was taken in the school's gymnasium or sports hall. If we ever played a team game in the gym we would simply place differing coloured thin sash like ribbons across our bare chests but other than that we had to be complete skins above the waist.

Hi I'm just curious. Was the reason your shirts came off in the gym because you would sweat?

Comment by: Darren on 10th November 2023 at 18:29


Better to be outside feeling a bit fresh in your PE kit than back inside burning to a crisp or inhaling smoke don't you think.

The fire drill at ours was you stop immediately anything you are doing and go, you don't take anything at all with you, it's out rapidly and orderly. We used to get timed on it to the point the entire school was assembled outside. If we were not quick enough the head used to get really quite ratty about it.

I've never really thought about it but if I'd been in the school gymnasium shirtless at the time we had a drill, we had some way to go to get our clothes so would probably have ended up at the meeting point just like you as speed was important.

The fire bell went off one afternoon straight after lunch just as soon as we had all assembled in the gym to begin PE which we always did shirtless on Tuesdays in the spring of 1983 with this one particular teacher when I was fifteen and we ended up shivering outside on a cold May afternoon for half an hour with the rest of the school because we weren't allowed back into another block to grab our shirts. I kept getting told to stop complaining and stand still while also having others smirking away at the state we must have looked. Teachers completely unsympathetic and Rich is right, PE teachers did prefer to have gym classes taken with bare chests more often than not, same in my school, just a very normal comprehensive in Wellingborough at the time.

Our teachers preferred us barechested as much as possible including gym, cross-country and some outdoor fitness activities were either skins vs vests or with sll the class. barechested.depending on who was taking the lesson.

Milo - Don't forget that in 1959, when the Clitheroe photo was taken, the UK was still recovering from the austerity imposed by WW2. Clothes rationing was only ended in 1949, and many households didn't have spare cash for the multiple sets of sports kit that schools subsequently grew to demand. Also, industrial Lancashire was, still is for that matter, a relatively poor area compared with the affluent South-East/London area. My PE/games kit at the same period (1959) was considerably less elaborate than yours: cotton t-shirt tops, rugby shirts in 2 different colours for teams, black rugby shorts, plimsolls and boots. By and large, it didn't matter which top we wore for PE or XC runs, as long as we wore a top, with underwear vests, which many lads wore in those days, also acceptable.

What surprises me about the grammar schoolboys in the photograph is how untidy they look as a group in so many different tops and shorts colours. When I was at grammar school from 1966 until 1972 boys always dressed in a formal kit for all kinds of PE dependent on what we were doing.

Outside for example we would all wear a navy blue top in winter with black shorts and navy socks with boots.

In summer we would wear a white vest and white shorts outside that had a navy blue stripe across both items, along with white socks and light coloured plimsolls.

In the school gym we wore a black pair of shorts, went barefoot and barechested.

If we went running in summer then we would sometimes be required to remove vests before setting off. There was never a time when some had one kit and others had something else.

No matter what type of PE lesson we took we always looked more or less the same as each other.

Robbie, 25th Oct:

Surely, if you father slept naked, and presumably made no secret of it, it was a bit unfair of him to insist on full PJs until you were 18, wasn't it?

Hi Fiona, Ivan,

Like Ivan I was in a very traditional household where wearing long pants and nice shirts was the norm, and pajamas were always expected of me at bedtime. So like Ivan, when I got the chance and realized that I could experiment away from the eyes of my parents, at scout camp I took every chance I could to be topless and wear shorts, at night no pajamas. I was able to build up my confidence thanks to a supportive environment from my patrol leader and practicing at school in PE. It was a kind of secret rebellion for me, and I think it helped me build my self confidence.

Hi Fiona, It did take a little time at first to adjust. I remember feeling grown up and felt more comfortable too. Once my dad was satisfied I was topless for bed there wasn't any more said. With hindsight he did me a favour.

. . .I was starting to surreptitiously experiment in that direction myself at that age.

Pete - so, apart from the compulsion to stop wearing your vest to bed, did you actually have any issues with sleeping topless. As Claire points out, many boys choose to sleep that way, without parental influence, and I was starting to surreptitiously experiment in that direction myself.

Hi Cassie, No probs. My dad likely thought he was trying to be protective of my sister when she was 16/17. When she'd turned 18 she was able to wear what she'd liked to go out.
For me yes up till then it was simply vest and pants for bed.

I think it's been the case for a long time that most of us learn to swim in primary school for some reason, meaning any age from about 8 until 12, and you leave primary and never get a chance to swim at school again. I wonder why this is, when secondary school PE is supposed to be even more demanding than primary yet they leave out swimming which is as healthy and good a physical lesson that you could possibly ask for.

Come to think of it, why did most of us even have to wait until primary school to go swimming and learn, why isn't it started nice and early at first schools from the age of 4 or 5 until 8 years old straight away to get children used to, confident and familiar with water. It seems like school swimming is zoned in on a very particular age range as cited by Robbie here.

In response to Ivan,
Swimming and Water Safety lessons are part of the National Curriculum at Key Stage 1 or 2 (primary school), with a target of all pupils being able to swim at least 25metres unassisted by the time they leave Primary. Most schools bus their pupils to their local municipal pool on a weekly basis for a term to do this. However a few are now hiring 'pop-up' pools for a couple of weeks intensive lessons as an alternative.

By contrast when I was at school (1960s / 70s) we didn't have swimming lessons until the first or second year at Secondary School (I can't remember which now).
These were once a week at our local swimming pool, which was quite near to our school, so swimming lessons were always during the first lesson of the day. We met at the pool and were then walked to school afterwards.

Many of us could already swim by then anyway and we also did the Personal Survival test mentioned by someone else in an earlier post.

Robbie.
Thank you for your update about swimming in schools today.
As I have posted previously I was subject to a strict pyjama regime and
I was glad when I was away from home and family and could be free form the strict rules.

Robbie, perhaps not as much of a disconnect as you suggest! Way back in my swimming lesson days, one of the tsks in our proficiency test was to swim a length of the pool wearing pyjamas over our swim-suits, then tread water while removing the pyjamas and contrive some sort of bouyancy aid by knotting the arms, legs and waist openings to create balloons. And then, of course, there was the inevitablw brick to be retrieved from the deep end. Fortunately, I never had to repeat this for real.

Ivan I can answer your swimming question here because I have a number of primary age school children in my extended family and they have all done swimming in their school between age 9 and 11. I have no idea if it is a formal part of their school curriculum however, but they did go along to the closest available swimming pool to learn, all within the last six or seven years. One wasn't very keen to do so I do know that, especially because it involved diving down in the deep end to the bottom of the pool to retrieve an object and bring it to the surface at one point. That is not something I ever had to do when I learnt to swim with the school at a similar age when it all seemed far more straightforward about swimming strokes and styles and lengths achieved. I gained a couple of oval distance badges that could be sewn onto a tracksuit top but got mine stuck on a schoolbag at the time instead. There was one girl who joined the learners one day at my school who had been coming to PE in a tracksuit with swimming badges saying she gained the 10 metres, 25 metres and 50 metres and yet she couldn't swim at all and had to admit she was wearing her sisters top with badges and had been passing it off as her own one day and started the tears when she got caught out poolside while the rest of us were bobbing up and down in the water looking on in amusement at her.

I know it's quite a bit off topic to talk about sleeping habits and clothing (how did that happen?) but I was not allowed to go to bed in anything other than a proper set of pyjamas until I was 16 and always fancied just sleeping with less on, so when I stayed away from home I would always leave the top part off and sleep that way. I had the kind of parents who would rip the covers off the bed to get me up on some mornings if I was sleeping too late, even at weekends, so I always kept the pyjamas on fully at home even though from about the age of about 12 or 13 I really desired to sleep like I knew my father did, completely naked, but if I had done that I'd have been mortified and forever fearing one of them would be in the bedroom pulling the bedding off me to get me up and I wasn't going to let that happen. Eventually after the age of 18 I did start sleeping without a top and quite often naked when I no longer feared a sudden bedroom invasion and cover pull off once I'd grown up more, by which time they knew how I slept in bed anyway.

Another point, when I shared a dorm on a short four night trip to France with school we all had to wear pyjamas top and bottom and I saw a few others actually keeping their socks on in bed too which I'd never done myself and found rather strange.

Pete - amusing note about you assisting your sister's nights out. It sounds as though your parents had a lot of say in what you both wore.

Forgive my curiosity, but if you never wore a vest at other times, it seems strange to own them just for bed. Did you wear pyjama bottoms, or just your underpants?

Having read the comment by Claire 2nd October, I make reference to her second paragraph:
" I know from when they visit that the pre- and early-teen boys of my own extended family sleep bare-chested, and I also know, from their parents, that this choice is entirely that of the individual boy, with no parental influence in either direction And rightly so! Boys of that age are busy establishing their identities, and freedom of choice in all aspects of personal identity must be paramount."
Unfortunately because my nan had a large influence in my upbringing, it was done in a rather old fashioned way. Hence my comment
"The opportunity of going to bed even without a top on was not going to happen. Pyjamas were always worn all year round."
and how I took the opportunity to discard pyjamas when away from home.
However, despite the strict regime about wearing pyjamas, there was no objection towards the school rules that for PE we wore just shorts no underwear and no tops.
another throw back to an earlier era, although I was at secondary school I was wearing grey shorts up until I was about 13. the last boy to go into long trousers. I was so pleased when that happened and I think that was because it was no longer to buy short grey trousers in my size.

A slight change of tack, but still connected to physical exercise. Do schools still include swimming lessons in their curriculum?
I remember when at junior school we had swimming lessons that were held at the local municipal pool. The lessons were run by an instructor appointed by the local education authority.
for those who could swim a length i.e. 25 yards in those days, they were given a ribbon ( I think it was green) to sew onto their trunks or swimming costume if a girl and they received a certain number of free passes to use the pool.
during public sessions.
If someone passed the 50 yards test 2 lengths then they received a blue ribbon and an additional number of free passes.
We continued to have swimming lessons during my time at an all boys secondary school.
for our lessons at both schools we used the communal school changing room and so we were used to getting undressed in front of each other, and time being of the essence(you dare not keep the instructor waiting) we had no time to worry about seeing each other undressed.
When we had swimming at the secondary school our regular P E teacher took the lessons.
The pool was hired for a day and a school bus ferried the different classes to and from the pool for they designated time slot.

Interesting contrast of experiences here, between Pete and Chris G. I was amused to read how ten-year-old Chris found himself inadvertently catapulted into sleeping topless by his sympathetic and well-meaning mother, but I find it disturbing that similarly-aged Pete should actually have to demonstrate to his Dad that he wasn't wearing a vest or PJ top on his way to bed.

I know from when they visit that the pre- and early-teen boys of my own extended family sleep bare-chested, and I also know, from their parents, that this choice is entirely that of the individual boy, with no parental influence in either direction And rightly so! Boys of that age are busy establishing their identities, and freedom of choice in all aspects of personal identity must be paramount.

Pete - I was introduced to sleeping topless at about the same age as you, but in rather different circumstances. Mum was a great believer in vests, and until I was nine, going on ten, I was expected to wear one 24/7. In fact my wearing a vest under my PJ top was commented on when I spent a couple of nights with one of my aunts. During my last term at primary school. The weather was so that that Mun said I didn't need a to wear a vest to school if I didn't want to (I didn't!), and by extension I stopped putting one on under my PJs at bedtime, but didn't advertise this. So, when a minor heatwave came along, and Mum suggested that perhaps I didn't need a PJ top in the heat, I followed her advice, and found myself sleeping topless by default. Mum took a couple of days to clock this, but saw the funny side of it, and nothing more was said. I've slept topless almost ever since.

Hi Fiona and Claire, I never wore a vest under my school shirt. I remember being given a lecture from dad with something along the lines of as you're picked to strip off for PE more often than not, going bare chested for bed was pretty much the same thing he took the vest from under my pillow and that was that. I never dared actually question him, you just didnt. I did have to drop my dressing gown to prove there wasn't a top for a good few weeks after just to be sure.
There were never constraints placed on my sister though I do remember smuggling clothes out for her on nights out then had to remember to change before she came home- she swore me to absolute secrecy. Hope this helps.

Pete - did your sister have any comparable sleepwear conditions applied, like not wearing a vest under her PJs or nighties?

Were you actually ordered to stop wearing a vest to bed and to sleep topless, or was it just an invitation to do so? And was it your Mum or Dad who told you what to do? Were you wearing a vest for ordinary daily wear at that point, and if so, did you stop wearing that as well?

Because my mum died when I was young, along with my dad, my nan who we lived with had a large say in the raising of me my older brother. So in effect the influence on my upbringing was let is say a generation behind my friends and fellow classmates.
This showed itself in different ways, one being nightwear. The opportunity of going to bed even without a top on was not going to happen. Pyjamas were always worn all year round.
The only time that I escaped from this was when I went to Scout Camp, or away on a school trip. Although Pyjamas were always on the kit list hardly any one wore them preferring to sleep in their pants. I also did this I suppose that it felt like freedom a chance to be rebellious. After all nana was none the wiser. I mad sure that the pyjamas were scrunched up as if they had been worn.
Having said that at least we had a dad and nan looking after us and a nan who had great home made meals ready for us when we came home from school.

Hi Fiona, I don't actually remember wearing anything other than a vest on top for bed. When I was told to stop my sister (2 yrs older) thought it was hilarious for a couple of days until mum told her to shut up and no more was said. Since then I've always slept without a top and I'm 33 now

Pete, you say you stopped wearing a vest to bed around your 10th birthday, and then slept topless. Were you also wearing a PJ top before then? I was about that age when Mum suggested that I didn't need to wear anything to bed any more, a revolutionary idea but one I thoroughly agreed with.