Burnley Grammar School

Eastender,you raise interesting comparisons.
As a teenager at school,I received several detentions for having my shirt coming untucked. Like many of my mates,I started to tuck my shirttail into my underpants, and this cured the problem,although the elastic of my drawers was usually showing above my trousers. Surprisingly, my teachers never picked upon this,and I still use this method to keep my waist tidy. Braces were not allowed, nor were belts, so I guess we were the first saggers!

I suspect that Eastender is right about a possible rebellion if boys were required to go bare-chested today.
In my day you had no choice and wouldn't dare rebel.

To Robert the last messenger & all others.

It is extraordinary the 2 extremes we see today. As you say pop groups & others showing their braces. Then the opposite trousers slung so low they show more underwear than anything else. Free advertising for certain companies. On the other hand when old men used to tuck their shirt in their pants and the elastic showed over the top of the waistband,it was thought funny. Of course they did not show off "designer" labels

To return to the topic of PE, I expect that if a school tried to introduce shorts with no pants & no tops these days, there would be a rebellion. Do schools provide showers with individual cubicles these days?

Hi Eastender

You raised and reminded me of another interesting aspect of life in the 1960's. Like you I received a strong word for removing my blazer when I was wearing braces, although many of my mates did so as well. I was given the option of taking my braces off or putting my jacket back on. I had to suffer the heat of my blazer as my braces not only kept my trousers up, but also my underpants, as elastic then was of suspect quality! It did not strike me at the time that braces were considered as underwear, not to be seen, or I might have been more embarrassed. As it was, my dad and Granddad both wore braces, uncovered,and nobody batted an eyelid.

How different today,when I see many pop group members playing in their braces. It must have had an effect though,as I am now loathe to let anyone see my braces, although I am in my 50's,but my grandson has no such qualms.Lucky lad!

Hi Eastender

You raised and reminded me of another interesting aspect of life in the 1960's. Like you I received a strong word for removing my blazer when I was wearing braces, although many of my mates did so as well. I was given the option of taking my braces off or putting my jacket back on. I had to suffer the heat of my blazer as my braces not only kept my trousers up, but also my underpants, as elastic then was of suspect quality! It did not strike me at the time that braces were considered as underwear, not to be seen, or I might have been more embarrassed. As it was, my dad and Granddad both wore braces, uncovered,and nobody batted an eyelid.

How different today,when I see many pop group members playing in their braces. It must have had an effect though,as I am now loathe to let anyone see my braces, although I am in my 50's,but my grandson has no such qualms.Lucky lad!

I remember gym sessions like this and they were great fun, never mind bare chests and no underpants, we learned skills and gained strength from these sessions.

I don't really remember the gym being cold and if it was, we didn't stay cold for very long. The changing room was a different matter, the windows were always wide open no matter what the weather so it was like stripping off outside in winter. The showers were always cold too so freezing in the winter but they did no one any harm and any boy who was not properly under could be sure of a sore bottom and then sent back in. Communal showers were the norm too and no one seemed to question them or mind, we were there to get washed and when dirty and sweaty I was always glad of the shower.

Going to the gym these days makes me laugh, the showers are all in very private cubicles but of course you have to strip to go in and you come out naked too so what's the point of the cubicles?

Being stripped to the waist was nothing unusual for us as it marked out the teams in "skins versus shirts" games. The problem was more connected with the chilly temperatures usually encountered in the school gym.

Our (most unpleasant) PE teacher, who was warmly clad, used to tell us to run around to get warm, but this wasn't possible if we had to stand on one side waiting for our team's next turn.

If we dared to suggest we were cold, he called us softies, and compared us with previous years of classes which had been composed of much hardier pupils, who did not feel the cold as keenly as we did.

He might have had a point, because by that time (mid 1960s) a fair number of us lived in centrally heated homes. Living standards were improving, so it was all the more of a shock to encounter the icy, spartan conditions of the school gym.

I well remember the winter of 1962/63 when despite it being the coldest winter in living memory we still had to do PE stripped to the waist both in the gym and outdoors.
Personally being stripped to the waist didn't worry me at all but I know some lads didn't like having to go bare-chested.They were left in no doubt that like it or not you stripped to the waist and got on with it.

I went to a grammar school in the 1970’s.

The uniform/kit list sent out said something like, PE/cross county kit – white shorts, white vest & white plimsolls.

Naturally I assumed that I would be allowed to wear all of these items for PE, so I turned up at the first lesson with them, and started to undress. Soon the PE teacher came in and announced that we needs just shorts for his lesson, one boy asked did he have to wear a school vest or should he keep his ordinary vest on. He got his answer in no uncertain terms, everyone had to strip to the waist, plus bare feet, the rest of the kit was for cross country only.

Personally, I didn’t mind having no top on, but really hated having bare feet, especially as the gym floor was usually freezing, not that the gym itself was that warm. I’m sure that a few boys were unhappy with bare backs/chests, but only one lad was really upset, and I think he always dreaded PE because of the restricted kit.

The shorts only policy stayed with us for the rest of my time at the school, and like many things, we had no choice but to accept it. After a while it became normal, and it would have seemed strange to have worn plimsolls in the gym, or to not have been striped to the waist

I will never forget the first time I had to be bare chested for PE. I was 14 and up to then I'd always done PE in a vest and shorts, as did every boy in the class. At the start of the new school year in September we had a new teacher for PE but nobody thought anything of that, we just turned up and got changed into our usual kit. The teacher arrived and, after introducing himself, informed us that we were all incorrectly dressed for his gym lesson. From now on our kit was to be white shorts (and socks and trainers). There were a few puzzled looks and one boy actually asked 'what do we wear on top, sir?', to be told 'Nothing. No tops - take them off' and at that point the penny dropped. I remember my heart pounding with nervousness and hoping that I'd somehow misunderstood. But one by one boys began to strip off their vests and move out to the gym and I reluctantly realised I had to do the same. Some boys didn't seem that bothered, mainly the ones who were already displaying signs of defined pectorals and six-pack stomachs. Meanwhile I felt as if I was totally naked, standing in the gym with my chest bare - it was a new experience and one I wasn't comfortable with.
Like Chris, I tried crossing my arms so that they covered my nipples. That was fine while we were lined up in the gym but of course I couldn't run like that so eventually I had to give up and put my arms down. I just imagined that everyone else was looking at my chest, although I'm sure some of the other boys were just as nervous and uncomfortable as I was.
Later I learned from a friend in another class that they'd had PE in their usual kit; it was only my teacher who made boys strip to the waist. We were still allowed vests for outdoor PE, but never in the gym - that was how it stayed all year and it took a while before I got used to it.

I knew that I would have to be stripped to the waist for PEas soon as my parents received the uniform list for Grammar School(in 1959.)
On my first PE lesson all us boys just stripped to the waist and went into the gym without any problems.
Nobody tried to hide their nipples(or belly buttons) and within a few days we all accepted that we did PE bare-chested without any worries.

Hey everyone let's share the experience after finding out you have to be bare chested for P.E lessons in the 1st lesson. Was it terrifying? Was it embarrassing? Did you try your best to cover your nipples? (like I did) In the 1st lesson I tried my best to cover my nipples because I was embarrassed... Upon finding out, the demented P.E teacher forced me to lift my arms up and ordered one of my classmates to cover them for me! I felt soooo weird! The nxt lesson I never tried something like that again.

Sorry my typing went awry in my last comment. To make sense, he middle phrase should read:

(remember, these were youngsters) but boys always kept their shorts on and did not take part in pe in their pants.


The remainder of my comments are then as written

In response to comments by Nick. I was at a Junior Scholl up to 1961. Pe for boys was norn=mal grey shorts but we wore our vest. Girls did pe in their underwear. Very rarely during a hot summer boys might remove their vest & even sometimes the girls (remeber these were young sters) would be bare top but boys always kept it being unfair for the girls . Equality was not a concern. However, I do remember that one very hot summers day I took of my blazer. The headmistress was horrified because I was wearing Braces on my trousers. She made me put my jacket back on saying men/boys did not show their braces. But then as I have written above girls were in underwear for p.e. Definately a different era then. But who worried?

Max. Music and Movement was broadcast on the radio by the BBC schools service. Schools usually recorded it - the programme was played back to us in the school hall via a loadspeaker mounted in a huge wooden panel. We had Music and Movement in the junior years at primary school. The girls wore knickers an vests and the boy had to strip down to grey school shorts. I think we were all barefoot. I remember some of the boys asking if they could wear vests as the girls did - the response was that they could but the shorts would have to come off so they were wearing just pants. What a strange and distant world! But one thing I will always be grateful for is that I was introdued to Prokofiev's Lieutenant Kije through M&M in Juniors 3 (quite elightened when you think about it!).

Responding to Tony's question:
"Archie
How does it feel to be shirtless? aren't you ashamed the fact that other boys will see your chest & nipples? How was your 1st lesson shirtless?"

Tony - it was more than 30 years ago that I was first shirtless in a PE class, so the memory of my feelings is a bit hazy. I don't understand why any of us should have been ashamed at being shirtless, given that most if not all of us would have been swimming at some point in our lives prior to the age of 9 when we started at the school! I really don't see the fuss with lads having to strip to the waist.

We only wore minimum clothing for all our physical activities,which were often shared with the girls.We only wore a vest for cross country runs,just brief,satin shorts were considered adequate.

Nick, your memory's clearly better than mine! You're right, now I think about it the class was called Music and Movement. Did you have the same thing at your school and was it also boys and girls in the class together?

Archie
How does it feel to be shirtless? aren't you ashamed the fact that other boys will see your chest & nipples? How was your 1st lesson shirtless?

They probably saw the dancing as a PE activity - no idea why else we'd have to get changed. No matter what we were doing in PE we had to get changed - even one day I remember having to strip down to shorts in order to sort through applications for tickets for sports day afternoon teas! If you were sitting out the class for any reason, such as illness, you stil had to get changed and sit at the side.

Bizarrely the only time I remember Having clothes on in the gym was one day in about fourth year when we were taught how to put someone in the recovery position and give mouth to mouth (on a dummy). We were told simply to take off our shoes and leave them outside the gym and just to go in in our stocking soles, which caused some anxiety amongst those of us who were wearing non- regulation white socks as they were so obvious to the PE teacher taking the class

For outside games - rugby, athletics, cricket etc - we wore the appropriate kit. For outside PE lessons we wore the same as indoor PE but were (again bizarrely) sometimes permitted to wear our school jumpers back to front. I never really understood that! That wasn't universal and as we were older we got to wear an athletics vest, though again if the weather was good we'd probably be made to go shirtless. The school was in a residential area (though wi playing fields out front) and we sometimes had to do road running around the nearby streets - sometimes but not always shirtless

Archie,thank you for the answering.

What did you wear for outdoor lessons?

"The girls for some reason did that wearing their gym tunics (basically skirts with a sort of dungaree style top half that they wore as school uniform on days they had gym), but we boys still had to strip down to our PE kit."

I've never heard about boys having to be shirtless for dancing practice.I think it was rare as well as swimming nude.

Max. Could it have been Music and Movement?

Answering Jon's questions:

"what was the boys' reaction for having to be shirtless for PE and naked for swimming lessons?"

I remember when we started at the school at the age of about 9 when we were told that we were to be shirtless and have no underwear on for PE - our parents presumably knew we were going to be shirtless as only shorts were specified on the kit list. It was a bit strange the first couple of times as we weren't used to being naked in front of each other, but as others have testified it is something you soon get used to. By the time we starting swimming lessons we were pretty comfortable stripping off for gym - and the showers afterwards - so the idea of being bare in front of each other wasn't quite so bad. It was still strange to start with, but I got used to it quite quickly and it stayed that way until I left school just before my 18th birthday.

"Was there any reason given for kit rules?"

Just the usual - hygiene, not wanting us to wear sweaty underpants for the rest of the day etc. For swimming in the buff there wasn't ever really an explanation - it's just how boys swam at school.

"Was there any PE lesson where you shared the hall with girls?"

This happened only rarely, such as when a teacher wasn't available to have two separate classes. The only organised joint sessions were when we were taught country dancing together in advance of school dances, which would be a couple of times a year. The girls for some reason did that wearing their gym tunics (basically skirts with a sort of dungaree style top half that they wore as school uniform on days they had gym), but we boys still had to strip down to our PE kit. Presumably this was due to the teachers not thinking too much about the inequality, but no reason was ever given.

Archie
I was interested to read your comments.
We were not allowed pants either under our white PE shorts, or under rugby kit. Later we were encouraged to wear Speedo type swim trunks for comfort and those who were in the various teams usually did. Any boy who was obviously lacking support underwear was given some 'advice' by the sports teacher.
Later again some lads wore a jockstrap although they were a minority.
At that time I do not remember being stripped to the waist for any of our sports lessons but corporal punishment was meted out.
I've included my email if anyone wants to comment apart from on the forum.

Charles B's post reminded me of my own junior school days (late 70s/early 80s) when we did a class that was kind of a cross between gymnastics, dance and a bit of drama too - I forget exactly what it was called but it was girls and boys together. Girls could wear a leotard or t-shirt and shorts, for boys it was just shorts and bare chest. Everyone went barefoot and it was quite warm in the hall so that wasn't a problem. You could wear any colour shorts you liked so a lot of boys opted for red as they supported Liverpool. Those who wanted could also wear the same shorts for swimming, which was once a week at a local pool and also mixed. That was how it stayed until the age of 12 when we moved on to senior school and had more 'traditional' PE lessons, with a proper uniform and boys and girls separate.

Archie, what was the boys' reaction for having to be shirtless for PE and naked for swimming lessons?
Was there any reason given for kit rules?
Was there any PE lesson where you shared the hall with girls?

At my independent school in the early to mid 80s, we had gym wearing fairly skimpy black shorts, no underwear, bare chested and white plimsolls. Later on when we were seniors we were allowed to wear jockstraps or speedos under the shorts, but lads regularly got caught wearing underpants instead. We must have been one of the last UK schools that still had swimming in the buff as well. Corporal punishment was still used regularly in the form of the tawse and, in PE, the slipper (really a gymshoe).

I'd rather see boys in short shorts than girls in short shorts.By what is happening all around these days,whatever the girls are wearing would make whatever that's described here of what the boys have to wear as very mild and un-ludicrous.Mine is a hot country and boys are still wearing knee length shorts n berms despite the girls wearing short tight to a horrific extent,often even torn,now thats true ludicrosity.If u looked at K pop girls u'd see truly absurd shorts.And no,the cold weather doesnt stop them.My may be a hot country,but im aware in both asian n american countries during winter some girls still wear their absurd hotpants,abeit maybe with stockings,but thats still absurd,as compared to a sensible winter pants for winter.If u look at japanime,u'd see girls in so-called bloomers,which are no different from colored briefs,doing PE in them.In comparison,satin shorts would be very mundane n covered.
Hence i strongly encourage boys,who still have their tight short shorts with them,to continue wearing them,maybe not in winter,but definitely in summer.It's our right and freedom to stay cool,and we either use it or lose it.Don't let short shorts get labelled as feminine clothing,cos that would really be ludicrous.Many people are getting misled,especially ignoramuses in asia,who follow weird trends blindly without understanding how it came about,and forgetting a true image of a lady isnt in short shorts;short shorts are supposed to be masculine and should remain as such.

Boarding school on the freezing fylde coast was my fate in the seventies. Naked bathing would have meant instant death in our outside pool so even school normally sadistic games teachers didnt insist upon that!Once you joined Big School and puberty descended, litesome jockstraps were standard underwear for all games. We all bought our straps from the school shop so embarrasing shopping trip with your mother was avoided!

At the primary school I went to in the 70's (up to the age if 9), boys went bare top. It wasn't unusual for some of the girls to do the same. They weren't forced to, but weren't made to put their t-shirts back on either. From what I remember, it was always the same ones and all very innocent. Teachers were all female.