Hesketh Fletcher Gym Team

Hi Nicola and Andrea,

Thankfully, I never had to undergo the indignity of prancing around in my pants and vest or, even worse, in just my pants! Right from primary school we had "proper" PE kit, which was just as well, as I had stopped wearing vests completely before I started school. Mum was very practical in that respect; she never wore vests herself, and saw no reason why I needed to, unless I chose to do so, which I didn't! So you and all others who were made to wear vests as children have my sympathy, As for girls doing PE topless in secondary school . . . That's utterly ridiculous, and bordering on abuse.

hi Andrea

At primary school we all undressed and dressed together in our classrooms. There weren’t any changing rooms.

At secondary school no one was allowed to wear a top in the first year. Quite a few girls wore bras but our PE teacher made them take them off, just like us girls in vests.

Hi Nicola,

If any of your classmates had graduated to bras rather than vests during that first year, were they allowed to keep them on?

Also when you were at primary school did the boys and girls change for PE in the same classroom? When I was at primary (late 1960s until July 1971) we always did, but when my son was at primary they started to change separately from year 5.

Like you I my mum insisted I wore a vest from when we started back at school in September until about May. New vests and pants were always on the list when she took me 'back to school shopping' towards the end of the summer holidays each year. This carried on until the summer before my second year at secondary school, when she decided it was time for me to start wearing a bra on a regular basis rather than a vest.

Hi Andrea and Fiona

This was at secondary school. At primary we did PE with our class so boys and girls together. I started secondary school in September 1990.

Yes, I’m old enough to be someone who used to be expected to wear a vest! You’re right about only not wearing one in summer, the rest of the year my mum was strict about it! I don’t know how cold she thought we were going to get.

Nicola,

Do you mean at Primary school or secondary?

Nicola, were you of the age, and was it the era, when girls were expected to wear vests as part of their everyday underwear, except possibly in the height of summer, or are you part of the liberated generation who has never been made to wear vests, even in the depths of winter, and whose last experience of vests was of the poppered babies' garment.

When I was at school we were split up from the boys for PE, which was good in some ways. But it meant that our gym mistress decided that we didn't need PE kit and should do all our gymnastics lessons in our underwear. She was really strict and for the first year she only let us wear our pants, we all had to go topless as well as in our bare feet. From the second year on we could wear a vest but even then she would sometimes decide it was "too hot" and order us to take them off.

Frank, I presume you mean that you performed these star jumps etc. naked, as your punishment. it must have been humiliating, as you say. Were you being observed by others whilst doing these vigorous nude excecises?

Rob,
I hated not being able to have a shower after PE. I don’t just think that we didn’t get showers because of the timetable either, I’m sure that the school wanted to save money on hot water. Still I enjoyed PE and was glad that I didn’t have to wear a shirt, I agree with the school that shirts weren’t necessary.

Responding to Bob's comments on nude P.E.lesson,It was more of a humiliating punishment for me and three of my classmates when we were thirteen after school. This was 1973 I attended an independent school for boys,it was a way of bringing us down to size as we had been disruptive during the morning lesson.Press ups and star jumps running on the spot etc.for thirty minutes.Needless to say it had a subduing effect on us for quite some time.

John, I was surprised to read that you weren't made to take showers after PE, and especially after you got a new Head of Boys PE who banned you from wearing anything under your shorts.At least you had a complete change of clothing but it was a pity that he wasn't able to do anything about the lack of time you had to enable you to take a shower.I hope at least you had time for a good rub down with a towel before you got dressed and went on to your next classroom lesson. I wouldn't have liked that because we used to have to sit on the floor between activities in lines with our legs out straight and our arms supporting our bodies while the teacher instructed us what we had to do next. I remember the sweat trickling down my whole body especially my neck and chest and from my armpits down my sides. When we were running around it felt really great and I was glad that I wasn't wearing anything more than a pair of gym shorts and plimsolls and looked forward to the showers afterwards. Like you, sometimes we we'd be sent on a cross country run instead of gym stripped to the waist wearing just shorts, but still wearing our plimsolls. At least we could enjoy the fresh air on our bodies and we always got back in time for a shower!

As John says, different teachers had different degrees of strictness. The one I had in my first year at Secondary wasn't too bad, although the regime of compulsory showers still took some getting use to.

The one I had in my second year was definitely 'old school' and much scarier. She would punish us if our pumps weren't gleaming white or if our polo shirts looked like they hadn't been washed and ironed recently.
Unlike John's teacher who forbade underwear, she told several of my classmates that it was time they were wearing a brassiere for PE (she always used the old fashioned full name rather than jus bra).

Ian, Sadly we didn’t have PE tests or exams, it would have been a good idea. At least it would have been possible to find out where you were going wrong and extra training would at least have given you the chance to improve. At my school you didn’t get much feedback from sports teachers throughout the year, my parents used to get the end of year written report ‘your son could try harder’. I would have loved to have made my parents proud for once by receiving a good PE report.

Your school had the right idea. A friend of mine attended a different senior school and had to attend school on Saturday mornings to play sports. I think that this was a great idea because there wasn’t enough time devoted to PE and sports during the week.

Did anyone have PE tests and exams?
Our head of PE introduced these near the end of each term to check our progress. If you did not come up to scratch, an appropriate number of remedial PT sessions were awarded. (PT = Punishment Training = detention).

Rob,
At Primary school from the age of nine a stripped to the waist rule became compulsory for boys indoor PE and there were no showers afterwards because the school didn’t have any. It was a bit of a shock at first having to go barechested but we all got used to it quickly and thought nothing of it then.

At Senior School the PE kit rule for indoor PE was white shorts and pumps only but we were allowed to keep our underpants on. We were not made to shower afterwards, only because the timetable didn’t allow enough time for it. At the start of the 2nd year at senior school we got a new Head of Boys PE and he appeared as soon as we entered the changing room and instructed us to strip off completely and we were then told that the only items of clothing that we would ever be permitted to wear from that day forward we’re white shorts and pumps. He told us that we were not allowed to wear anything underneath our shorts and that any lad who was caught disobeying this rule would be dealt with severely.

This was the rule for indoor PE, there were still no showers afterwards because of the lack of time provided in the timetable. Sometimes we’d be sent on a cross country run instead of gym and this was done stripped to the waist wearing just shorts, but we could wear trainers for running. Communal showers were compulsory after football.

I was caught wearing underpants in the gym once. To avoid having to strip naked in the changing room I had kept them on. I regreted this later when the PE teacher called us together and made us stand in a tight circle facing inwards. We were told to pull down our shorts to our knees, and then to have a good look round at everyone else's naked private parts. He said this was necessary because there was too much shyness about seeing each other stripped, he said. I refused initially, but had to give in eventually. My pants were gleefully pointed out to the teacher by my classmates, and I received several strokes of the slipper later on my bare backside. I never wore anything under my shorts again.

John, so did you all keep your pants on under your PE shorts for the first year and did you have to shower afterwards? At my small junior school we didn't do PE as such mainly because there wasn't a gym. We only had a small hall where we went weekly and did a few stretching exercises without removing any of our ordinary school clothes.Therefore you can imagine how I felt at my all boys grammar school at the start of the first PE lesson having to strip off completely and wear just a pair of PE shorts and plimsolls? Fortunately I had been used to playing barechested outside with the other boys at home in our road, so I didn't have a problem in PE. The shock only came at the end of the first lesson when we all had to get our shorts off and go naked in the open communal showers. I certainly hadn't had any previous experience like that, but soon got used to being nude with all the other lads after PE and soccer lessons. That was how it was and we had to get on with it. It did us no harm and made us more confident of ourselves. All lads today should have to strip off like we did and do PE barechested, indoors and outside,including cross country running,followed by showers to wash off the sweat which we were always made to work up.

Nick. It was simply because we didn't have our kits. Also we didnt shower afterwards as they were closed at that time and we didn't have towels.

Rob,

My PE experience was the same as yours regarding not being allowed to wear anything underneath our shorts, this didn’t happen with our first PE lesson. In the 2nd year at Secondary School we got a new Head of PE and he decided that lads would no longer be permitted to wear anything underneath their shorts. This came as a great shock, some lads had only just got used to being stripped to the waist for PE after coming from Junior Schools where they had been allowed to wear vests.

The new Head of PE came into the changing room as soon as we arrived for the lesson, like you we were told to strip off completely and were then only permitted to wear our white PE shorts and pumps. and nothing else. No one ever dared to try and defy him.

Charles. What was the reason for PE detention in underpants? Was it because some boys might not have PE kit with them on detention day or was it meant to be embarrassing? How many boys were usually in the detention? And was it for certain ages? Thanks for answering the questions.

William, Same as you,when we arrived for our first PE lesson we were told to take everything off including pants and socks and to wear just shorts with nothing underneath and plimsolls.We never wore anything under shorts for all sports and it certainly felt very cold in the winter at times when we played soccer but we weren't allowed to wear
anything else either under or over our shorts.

I dont remember us having underpants checks in PE.
The teacher told us straight away in our first lesson at secondary school that he would slipper us on our bare behinds if he caught anyone in underpants
That was a sufficient deterrent.

Andy, We never wore pants under shorts - not for gym indoors, nor for athletics, cross-country running, rugby or hockey outdoors. In very cold weather we were allowed to wear two pairs of shorts.

After we were told "no pants" at our first gym lesson, I don't think wearing pants under shorts ever occurred to us, and in the '60s I never saw jock straps at school either.

We used to have random underpants checks in the late 50s when at the beginning of the PE lesson our instructor would line us all up and we had to pull one side of the top of out shorts out and down. I don't recall anyone found wearing pants, although once we had a student teacher take our class for PE.who caught a boy during the lesson. He told us all to stand in a circle around this chap and made him take off his shorts, pants and plimsolls and gave him six strokes across his backside with one of his plimsolls, then sent him to stand under a cold shower for the rest of the lesson.

I also recall once when I was about 15 years old our school was undergoing a periodic visit by a team of government inspectors. Our form had got changed for PE as usual into shorts and plimsolls and we all came into the gym and there was an inspector with our instructor. During the lesson we were doing various exercises and then we had to do one which we did regularly and which you are probably familiar with. We had to lie on our backs on the floor with our arms outstretched and lift our legs up 45 degrees and when instructed, open them apart and then together several times. Then we had to lower our legs to six inches of the ground and repeat the exercise several times before repeating it all over again. It was certainly good for the stomach muscles, but more to the point, allowed our instructor to see if anyone was wearing anything under their short shorts! Nothing was said afterwards, but was our teacher proving this to the inspector? After the lesson our instructor and the inspector came into the changing room and watched us as we showered naked in the open communal showers. Again, nothing was said by our teacher; we weren't accustomed to being made exhibits, but no-one said they were embarrassed and we were all confident of ourselves in such a situation. Presumably the inspector was also pleased with what he saw and able to report that we were wearing the correct kit for PE lessons and in the showers afterwards.

Bob Your accounts checking seem drastic. Certainly this would not happen today. I remember the translucent shorts. The worst thing was if we had been playing football and it was raining the white shorts became see through. You say any offender had to stand through a lecture before knowing their punishment. What was the normal punishment?

Re the no underpants rule - a lot of contributions mention lessons, was the rule just applied for lessons or was it also applied for school teams, gym displays and sports days etc.

Palmer. Yes they were briefs in those days. It always felt embarrassing to have to do the PE detention in just underpants.
And the double whammy was getting disciplined at home afterwards. Mum always said i had disrespected the family name and "what will people think?"
The walk home was never pleasant as I knew that As soon as i got home that shorts would be down and I would be getting tanned.

I see from the recent posts that detentions and punishments were an important part of most boys PE experiences in the 50s and 60s. But these contributed to the regime that made us fit and I think contributed to increasing longevity.
I know it was not pleasant for us at the time. I never liked being punished at school, especially the blet, but I think we owe a debt of gratitude to our PE teachers for giving up their time to do it.

Charles re the pe in underpants, I suppose in those days the style of underwear was briefs, which would add to the punishment. whereas today(if such a punishment was allowed) the lads underwear would look like shorts and not so embarrassing.

As you say then there was the additional punishment when you got home, because you had had a detention

In reply to Palmer's question about enforcing the no pants rule - Individuals were sometimes stopped by the teacher, who would pull out the elastic waistband of their PE shorts and look down the front. Alternatively the whole class would line up before the lesson and be made to pull their shorts down. It was sometimes possible to get away with wearing underpants if you could hide them as you pulled the shorts down. (Of course in bright light, pants would show through translucent PE shorts anyway). Offenders would have to strip naked on the spot in front of everyone, and wait for the teacher to lecture the class on correct PE kit before being told their punishment and allowed to put their shorts back on.