Clitheroe Royal Grammar School

We often had a teacher run/lead cross country on our weekly runs (grammar school - 1970's). I say "lead" but really it was more "check/encourage/control"

The PE teacher involved always wore a rugby shorts/shirt - needed to say we were only allowed to wear shorts and had to strip to the waist at all times.

Teachers should lead by example and run the same shirtless as the boys if that's how they want it done. Only one teacher out of about six ever did so at my school on the cross country. Even he didn't do it often, while we did so quite often. I say run, he was also the only teacher to actually run regular with us, the others had a couple of pushbikes and pedalled alongside us and had the cheek to complain when we were dragging our feet or going too slow for them.

Good notice Rob.

There may be some people who doubt that boys did run shirtless in cross country like that, not by their own choice but because they were actually told to do it like that, and yes in the wet and cold. That was me each autumn and winter from 1977 until 1981 in school cross country from the age of 12 until 16. Groups of about 60 shirtless guys from your particular year going out running anything from 2 to 5 miles in one go and not a top in sight other than on the teachers with us.

John on 2nd October and the old 1980s cross country film clip.

A few points I noted about it. Did the car in it belong to the PE teacher who drove the course instead of run it like the kids? It was a Y reg so that means it had to be no earlier than Autumn 1982 and the car looked a bit used so maybe mid to late 80s possibly.

I noted the rural setting and how the boys were all running on country roads like that, scattered apart from each other. I think the old health and safety warriors might have a thing or two to say about that nowadays, with schoolkids running on narrow country lanes where fast cars could suddenly be a hazard. There looked to be quite a steep gradient at one point too. I don't think they would be allowed to run like that in such a location on country lanes nowadays. Some were actually running in the middle of the road too.

On the bare chests point that was made. They did mostly start with shirts and most ended up finishing the cross country barechested. This looks to have been the free choice of those boys and not a mandate to do so. What makes it interesting that most of them ended up barechested on this cross country is the time of year and the temperature it looks to have been. This was clearly taking place at some point in very late autumn or during the winter, there were no leaves on the trees and at one point you can see the breath coming from the mouth of one of the boys which suggests it was actually quite a chilly day. Yet they were mostly okay to go the full bare chest by the end.

This rather goes to prove the comments of many on the other Burnley thread who say they ran barechested cross countries in winter in the 1970s and 1980s doesn't it, although for some it wasn't actually a choice unlike what it appears with this short film.

A interesting snapshot John, thanks for posting it.

Nick, showing off for baring your chest with your vest off, you must have had a six pack they were all envious of, yes?

Your comment reminded me of going to a local football game where the player got into trouble by the ref for taking his shirt off to celebrate. He was booked for it.

In response to Nick's comments " as my mother bought a size too big for me trying to save some money. " in order to save money I had to wear my older brothers "hand me down" shorts for P E. These did not fir too well being rather large. But I had to make do until such time the next pair were passed down , by then I had grown quite a bot and they were rather tight.
Also with regards to your comment " Btw, my parents were very happy about the school's minimalist kit for boys as it was very cheap compared to that of my sisters." I would have prefered it if a few years ago when our son attended high school if the PE kit had ben "minimal". We had to purchase (of course from the school shop) Black shorts which had the school logo on. A PE top which had the logo in hi houses colours along with football socks again indicating his house and a rugby shirt (not that he ever played rugby) for out door games again with the school logo on it. Obviously we had this expense several time over the years he was at school as he grew bigger.
If only it had been like my schooldays . A pair of shorts now colour specified and black plimsolls, and any t shirt for outdoors. Much cheaper!

Owen

We were supposed to learn the course, thus walked first

Teachers RUNNING the cross country course, you are joking I assume !!

Nick,
Being told off for taking your top off? Funny concept to me. We were told off when our shorts were too long as they supposedly stopped us from running properly. Happened once to me as my mother bought a size too big for me trying to save some money. Btw, my parents were very happy about the school's minimalist kit for boys as it was very cheap compared to that of my sisters.

You walked 5 miles only to then instantly be told to run the same 5 miles again Andy? What school was this? Why would you not just run the course behind the teacher leading the way in the first place!

John.

I was at school in the 1990s and we did cross country in vests. I remember taking mine off shortly before the finish line once and getting accused of showing off and told to put it back on immediately. We were never allowed to be top free outside.

I think most schools in the 1970's ran cross country - we had 2 PE lessons week, one in the gym, one cross country (plus a games afternoon).

The first games afternoon we were all told to bring plimsolls as well as our "normal" rugby kit. We then all had to walk the course with a teacher, to "learn" the route. in total it was 5 miles - roads, fields, woodlands etc.

On return we were all told that we were to now run the course we had just walked - get changed into rugby shorts, plimsolls, nothing else.

Pretty soon there were 120 boys lined up, all stripped to the waist, all freezing in the cold. When we walked the course we had normal September clothes on (so vest, shirt, pullover, jacket and coat), now all of this had to be removed, and we were ready to do the run - same kit as we always wore for xc - which is all but nothing (only shorts & plimsolls, no socks, no briefs, no vest/shirt). Once a week all conditions.

Quite an intereseting piece of film of 1980ies cross country running. Most boys seem to lose their shirts during the run. In my school in the 80ies it was much more organised and unformed, white shorts and bare chests for every boy for all PE and cross-country.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4NLr34AHPQ

Ivan. Some wear full body wetsuits but others just normal everyday swimwear that covers the basics with just the usual standard swimming coverage. I just go in normal like I would down the proper pool. Even in summer the water is fairly cold but it's just one of those things you like or can tolerate, or not.

James do you wear a wet or dry suit for the wild water swimming?

If you ever get a chance to go wild swimming take it up. I joined a wild swimming club in the summer of last year and have been on two wild swims with them so far and the benefits I felt far outweigh those I got from a proper swimming pool.

Turner
I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. A couple of series back on I'm a Celeb I think it was Nick Knowles who wore a pair of brief style trunks in the famous shower that they use and there was a lot of ridicule. That is why I agree with Turner that "This type of scene undermines men's confidence in wearing the style they prefer."

The actor Robson Green made a TV series about wild swimming. ln one episode he visited a private swimming club which used the site of a former quarry. Green went into the changing hut and emerged wearing a pair of red brief-style trunks which were of a very modest cut and by no means budgie-smuggler type. After walking a few yards he said "No. Some presents from the wife are best worn in the home" as though it was a mankini or a thong. He returned to the hut and changed into black square-cut trunks. Green has a well-toned body and could carry any type of trunks so why did he, or his producer, decide this would be amusing? This type of scene undermines men's confidence in wearing the style they prefer.

It is not a case that I cannot wear the swim wear of my choice, but more the feeling of being uncomfortable and judged if I wear trunks trunks for example on the beach of public swimming pool, As I have written previously, when I swim in the pool at the gym I attend it is more private and quite a few men wear swimming trunks of the brief type.

The two previous comments asking the same question, not surprising. Where indeed! Has it really come to it that men have now got to watch what swim bottoms they are putting on, seriously? It's not going to be long until men even on the sunny summer beaches of Brighton or Bournemouth in hot July or Augusts are made to feel guilty about showing a bit of chest and finally being made to cover up there too, it's coming one day soon in our hysterical, overly judgemental, dystopian future if we're not careful.

Wear what you like Ivan and be proud. You don't have to answer to the morality police.

Ivan - where in the UK have you not been able to wear your swimwear of choice?

Ivan.

You can wear swim trunks of any kind in the UK, where have you been unable to do so.

When I was going swimming with school around about 45 years ago we all wore the kind of swim briefs you mention, by which I presume you mean old style trunks, or the so named budgie smuggler type as nicknamed. I remember even for boys the age I was then 10 to 13 still in late primary, early secondary, those things could feel a bit revealing as they clung tightly around you.

I swam at school with navy blue, red and white patterned ones which seemed better than plain ones because they disguised things a bit.

I never felt in the least bit self conscious swimming in those things at school, many times in mixed company, but if I was still swimming nowadays I think I'd give them a miss and go for some swim shorts instead which I think I'd feel better with. I cannot believe that anyone would be offended by a grown man wearing the kind of swimwear you describe, although in this day and age there is someone looking to be offended at anything I suppose.

Another aspect from the American educational establishment Phil is that at one point not many years ago graduates had to undertake a swim test in order to graduate and in that time this was when many had the naked swimming rules in place, meaning that to graduate you had to endure a naked swim test to prove you could meet the required swim threshold. This had to be done by every single person in order to graduate even if what you were doing had absolutely nothing to do with sport and physical education in any way whatsoever. If you refused you didn't pass graduation. Quite frankly mad.

Phil
I do find it "a bug" not to be able to wear swimwear of my choice in the UK
or even when on holiday abroad if in the company of Brits.
The only time I can wear swim briefs is when I swim at the pool in the gym where quite a few men do wear that style.

America really contradicts itself doesn't it Ivan. It does seem a strangely prudish country in parts and perhaps always has been, yet it's the place where the widespread use demand of naked swimming in thousands of schools used to take place, irrespective of how prudish or uncomfortable any of those boys might have been about it at the time. Also it is the same place where under some strange 'experiment' around about the 50s to 70s there was a situation where all freshers (undergraduates) on entry to higher education and universities, including some of the top ones in the country, had to submit to being photographed full frontal, profile and rear completely naked under the guise of doing research into posture. How did they ever get away with it in this so called prudish country when you can't even wear the swimwear of your choice now.

In reply to Turner Harry certainly could not wear swim briefs in America.
Many years ago I was over in America with Scouts from UK being hosted by Boy Scouts of America and we went to a lake for swimming (boys and girls ) I wore my speedos and I found straightaway that was considered wrong. so I quickly found a pair of shorts to wear over the top.
The same attitudes pervades in the UK I think it is only in parts of Europe and Scandinavia that Briefs can be worn when swimming.

Today's paper has a photo of Prince Harry being presemted with a pair of budgie-smugglers by the Australian team at the lnvictus Games. They are patterned with the flags of all nations (the budgie-smugglers not the Ozzies) and look rather good. Presumably PH will not be allowed to wear them in the prudish USA.

Ivan, I lived in Brixworth as a kid in the late 1960s and nearby was a manmade lake, Pitsford, which was an area that was a quick bike ride to get to, out of the way of any adults. We used to go there a lot and hang out doing nothing much after school and before teatime, riding bikes and playing ball games, never actually paying much attention to the water. We could all swim. Generally the same gang of five, all from the village. We did all the things boys did but weren't too silly. I showed up late one afternoon and saw the bikes all laying there near our usual meeting spot and with piles of clothes beside them but couldn't see anyone about immediately as normal. Then I was suddenly confronted with my four mates actually in the water and jumping up and down and noticed they had nothing on at all. I was immediately encouraged to join them and couldn't wait to do so, ripping everything off as quick as I could. It was a hot day and great fun and that was my introduction to going skinny dipping as a kid, we were all 13 years old at the time, 1968. When you do it once and realise it's great fun you want to do it again and again and we did it a few more times with our same gang of five. I don't think there were any no swimming or bathing rules in place at the time like there are at some of these places nowadays by the killjoys.

We had immense freedom to go and do as we pleased and never ever came to any harm or caused harm to others.

My only experience of skinny dipping was at a big Scout campsite in Kent
where apart form normal swimming sessions in the pool there was the option to go to an early morning or later evening session where you could to quote the brochure" swim without the restriction of a costume"

Turner, thank you for the information.

We used to have swimming lessons in school time at the local outdoor lido in the 1960's. There was no such thing as swim shorts, everybody had traditional looking close fitted swimming trunks, which basically offered the same coverage as your normal y-front underwear.

Swimming was not compulsory and there were always about five in class we would leave behind at school because they didn't want to go swimming. I don't think it cost anything and was free.

Martin your comment made me laugh. A comedy of errors there. Hard to disagree with Phil, many boys would probably jump at the chance to just go in the water with nothing on and any that didn't want to would just sit it out I suppose. But even in the 70's that would not have been deemed appropriate, especially without telling parents, and not forgetting that there was a woman on staff there.

I think most boys have a secret skinny dip desire amongst friends. Only some get to give it a go. I never did, but would have given the opportunity, even at school in same sex company.