Burnley Grammar School

Comment by: Paul on 19th July 2022 at 14:10
I remember the summer of 1976, I was doing my 'O' levels so there was no possibility of any let up from being at school. I remember we were allowed to take off our ties and roll up our sleeves and before the afternoon session started each day we all had to report to the changing room and take a cold shower which was very welcome and probably did something to reduce the smell of about 200 sweaty boys in the exam hall which didn't have great ventilation.

There was no choice about that, one of the PE masters had a list and you name was ticked off as you came out. I don't think it was a problem getting lads to comply, more getting us out once we were in.




Why do you think so many people have trouble taking this account at face value Paul?

I'd quite like our couple of teacher writers on here to pass comment on this. It's the militaristic conscripted style of what you describe happening that gets me most of all. Add my name to the doubters.

Good for Nicky Campbell at the age of 61 deciding to use his available platform to call out his teachers like that. It's never too late.

Incredible post by Ivan a few days ago and then Nicky comes out with his own similar memory in thge national domain.

Massive kudos to you on a very well timed return with that article Alan.

When I read the piece by Ivan last week and he wrote about a teacher effectively sexually assaulting somebody I was anticipating some deniers on here or imagining some would outright disbelieve such a claim. That's before you even get to the other lower level physical goings on such as throwing about. I thought the follow up from Laura was pitched very well in reply.

There is one quote in the Nicky Campbell story that sticks out and is worth highlighting here;

"Those were different times and that has stayed with me all my life."

The "different times" argument is often used by those who seek to excuse certain ways from the past. Well it's not an excuse for a lot of activity is it, especially where physical actions have taken place in whatever manner. I'll separate general nudity attitudes out from that in this instance. Throwing kids about or grabbing their balls was as unacceptable 50 years ago as it is now. As Ivan wrote last week, the only difference is that these people did get away with it and some of them were extremely crafty and clever. Nicky says it has stayed with him all his life, of course it has. Why would anyone just forget the moment they left school. This actual forum proves that decades pass and people have incredibly vivid and detailed memories of what they enjoyed and endured in their school, especially surrounding PE and all that it threw at them.

When Nicky said "Being in a changing room at 10 years old - after rugby - seeing a teacher abuse my friend. I cannot describe it here and I can never un-see it." that was literally the same as what Ivan told us last week when he wrote about seeing the teacher grab a member of his class by his penis and testicles wasn't it. The sadness is that none of them ever told as the article says. You have to wonder if what Ivan wrote on this history forum last week was the first time he had ever told that after so much time.

There will be a few people who might not like the discussion turning to this kind of thing again but I do think it is perfectly legitimate and for my own part I've found recent months on here to be a far more interesting read with some fresher input.

Howard. your comments are interesting. At least when i started Secondary school 1961, I was following my brother who was already attending there. So I more or less knew the arrangements for P e. Nevertheless, my father attended a parents evening a few weeks prior to the start of the school year and when he came home he explained to me all about uniform , lessons etc, which as I say I was aware of. He did explain pe would be done in shirts only( no underwear) and no top when indoors and plimsolls without socks. so I was prepared for this. Parents did not not question the schools rules.
I expect you did find it disconcerting at first to find out that on that first day pe was in pants only. Most unusual. Still as you say you were all the same, and in that era I think the only underwear worn was white briefs.
showers were available to us but not compulsory and only a few lads used them.

Here is the experience of somebody quite famous, who names names and this happened in the 1970s:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62308621

Did anyone arrive at their upper school without realising they'd have to start going in the showers after P.E?

We got stuck straight in at the deep end with it. On my first day back in September we spent the morning with all the introductions and writing out timetables and the first afternoon was a P.E class on our timetable that day, already halfway through the week. Because we had no P.E kit with us that day we didn't expect much that first afternoon.

After lunch we were told by our new form teacher to shuffle along to the gym as we were in our full and fresh new uniforms and black leather shoes and bags. Once there we all stood about rather awkwardly wondering how we were going to spend the next hour or so. Some more introductions to our four P.E teachers and suddenly it was a case of one of them saying follow me to the changing rooms where we found a space and got told we could do the lesson with what we had on us that day, pants and a vest if we wore one, if not then no top and no shoes and socks, it all came off. Most of us didn't wear vests so it was a pants only lesson. Quite a surprise on a first day. We all more or less looked the same so what was there to really complain about. I do remember feeling more or less naked like that but it was kind of exciting and fun whilst also being a touch intimidating in a strange kind of way if that doesn''t sound completely contradictory in itself.

I can remember it being quite a passive lesson with very minimal expectations, a lot of stuff to do with balancing and coordination that didn't raise the heartrate too dramatically. At the end when we got back to the changing room and sat down to change back again our P.E teacher said we'd start as we mean to go on and take a shower, so we all dropped our pants and went into what I thought was an okay experience. None of us had a towel that first day so we had to stand around and drip and shake dry for a few moments but that was okay because it was only water anyway. Thinking about showering in school before ever doing it was actually the worst part of all, the doing it was no problem to me even though I'd never seen another naked boy before because I had no brothers and suddenly I was surrounded by a lot just the same as me. That's what I remember thinking, oh they are all just the same as me.

Now that was in 1968. I now have a grandson who will take his place at the very same school as me 54 years ago when he starts there in a few weeks time after the holidays. I very much doubt his first day will turn out anything like mine did but when school cropped up in conversation earlier this summer and I explained a few of my memories to him he initially refused to believe anyone went to school, did P.E and had to shower with their class with no clothes on. Even the concept of a lesson without a top on seemed to surprise him. He took quite some persuading. I don't know why he would have found it all so unlikely. If he ended up thrown in at the deep end from day one like I was then I do wonder just what the outcome would be.

Responding to - Paul J on 24th June 2022 at 14:59
I've just watched the Good Health video which I remember from years ago, I'm amazed it's still around.

https://youtu.be/NRRw-k7cGJs

Wow that's a memory brought back there. Our primary school class saw this in school, we must have been around 9. I thought it was unfair the girls got to see all those naked boys but we couldn't see the girls doing the same. Class got in trouble for sniggering, the girls mainly, I don't blame them seeing that again. After it ended class had to talk about what we had just seen and answer and ask questions it raised. Our primary had a shower area one side of the changing room which was never touched but within days of seeing this programme it must have sparked our teachers into action because they started turning the showers on and telling us to walk into them after PE lessons and suddenly we kept hearing about sweat and the term B/O became a big obsessive thing out of the blue. I blame this damned programme for that and for the fact that we started occasionally doing some of our lessons with a bare chest which we had never done up to that point either. It all felt a bit shit at the time. Obviously our teachers were in need of educating on personal hygiene issues and took the advice on this programme quite literally and implemented it on us.

I missed this one where Baxter the head of PE admits that PE teachers "have a bad enough reputation as it is" when things get sorted and they get shot of the bullying teacher.

https://youtu.be/lE8utnACiig

We never got to know what exactly became of Hicks but I suppose back then those kind of people just went on to another school and maybe began the same behaviour all over again instead of being drummed out of the profession entirely or face investigation and potential assualt charges.

Re: Laura & Ivan comments.

Those of us a certain age might well remember this storyline of a PE teacher called Mr Hicks who singled out and bullied a boy in his class which was shown on Grange Hill on BBC1 in January 1981.

Two clips here, one shows the bullying in the lesson and even a boy getting hit by a plimsoll, sound only of that before he emerges in just a towel from showers. What a miserable excuse of a PE lesson that would have been for real.

https://youtu.be/bUDzmI8hbpg

At least he got found out and dealt with by his colleague, Mr Baxter who delivered some karma rather nicely to Hicks here. I probably cheered when I saw the following;

https://youtu.be/4ny46fm5JfY

What you wrote Ivan reminded me immediately all over again of this episode, which as someone comments underneath the clip and I agree with, is long ingrained in the consciousness of us children who watched at the time even 41 year later, as I was a boy about the same age as the bullied class at that time. Luckily I never had anyone like the Hicks bullying character but did have one similar to the Baxter character and looking back he really was the perfect kind of PE teacher in my book and portrayed very well. But it is very interesting that the show chose to highlight an actual PE teacher bully like that and the reason is obvious, because they did exist in far too many schools than is acceptable at the time.

Whenever I saw the actor Paul Jerricho in anything after this I took against him for seeing him in this episode doing this at my young impressionable age. Even now I look and think of him as the PE bully despite all the work he's done since.

A description of the episode from a fandom site;

"Mr. Hicks was a strict and bullying physical education teacher in the series Grange Hill, who appeared in the fourth series episode "Slip on the Wet Floor, Did You?".

He is played by Paul Jerricho.

History
Mr. Hicks appears as a strict and thuggish PE teacher at Grange Hill. After the kids in his class muck around in the swimming pool, Mr. Hicks begins questioning one of the boys Christopher Stewart in the changing rooms, but pushes him over causing him to hit his head. Mr. Hicks then claims that he slipped, and when his mother is informed he stands by his claims and the matter is ultimately dropped.

Mr. Hicks begins to bully Christopher in his class, making him do extra working out than the other students which causes him to grow tired and weak. He keeps both Christopher and his friend Duane Orpington to put away the equipment.

Another teacher Miss Lexington becomes concerned and goes to talk to other sports teacher Mr. Bullet Baxter about it, although he feels that Mr. Hicks is simply disciplining them and that it isn't as worse as Christopher is making out. But when Baxter looks in on one of Mr. Hicks' lessons, he catches him shouting at a student and throwing him to the floor. Baxter calls out Hicks, and punches and knocks him to the ground, then mockingly saying "slip on the Wet Floor, Did You?"

Hicks was later disciplined from the school and never seen again."

Most adult overweight adults walking around today are not that way because they hated PE in school I'm confident about that. If it is any factor I'd stick it a bit down the list for reasons.

One factor might actually be because there appears to be a lot less PE in school nowadays and what they do is not so strenuous as it once was and the teachers are far softer in what they demand when they actually get them anywhere near a gym or sports field.

The fitness ethic and bodily self responsibility is what is NOT being
promoted like it once was.

I was rather moved reading your account last night Ivan and saddened by the way you described your feelings on leaving school as akin to a prison. You are not alone. I have in my job over the years spoken with many people from all walks of life, male and female of varying ages young to elderly whose adult issues could be traced back to their early life, often in school. When we hear about bullying in school it is nearly always in terms of other pupils doing it to each other but there is a far more insidious and lesser spoken of bullying that almost dare not speak its name and that is of teacher and authority figure deliberate bullying, something perhaps not so common now with greater awareness but took place in the past and often disguised under the veneer of discipline and order. Your own description reminded me of a gentleman I spoke with a few years ago in his 70's talking about being in school around about 1950 and the one thing that he told me was that he was worried nobody would believe him, and his own parents didn't. Without going into private details there was an assault element involved over a period of time. Many of the people such as the teacher you described did those kind of things not just because they thought they would get away with it but because they knew they would get away with it, even if a complaint might be made.

Now I'm fully aware that the overwhelming majority of us were treated correctly even if we didn't like what we were told, that includes me. But the minority is not insignificant and for the handful of people I've spoken with over the years who have related stories to me about their schooldays even before the 1950's, there are probably ten times that who simply kept their troubles and thoughts to themselves.

One of the most disturbing things I spoke with a man in his early 60's around about 15 years ago was how if he was given corporal punishment at school his own father would repeat the same when he got home on him so he was doubly punished. The kind of thiings he told me he would receive this for were not what anybody would consider misbehaviour of any kind but failure to produce work up to a certain standard leading to a number of belts across both hands. He lived iin fear from a young age of both his teachers and his parents. Is it any wonder you'd grow up with lasting effects and never forget. I never forget some of what I hear and it didn't happen to me, I'm just listening for the most part.

Agreed Tom F.

Unusual. Unlikely more like.

Thanks for replying Paul, did you have the Guinness Book Of Records record for the biggest school showers in the UK, or the world or something? A shower with 150 showerheads!

Tell me you're on a wind up Paul.

I can't help but agree with the others here who followed my own comment up and your answer. What you said, not just about the size of your facilities but the reason for using them just seems outright weird.

Let me get this straight. You are telling us that at your school prior to taking exams back in that glorious summer of 1976 the teachers actually forced all of you to take a cold shower together before you took an O level in the afternoon and were so strict about it that they effectively registered you in and out to make sure everyone did so. Virtual school leavers we are talking about here.

My memory of exam days was that teachers were all busy enough without creating extra work. If I'd been about to take my maths O level and my PE teacher had appeared on the scene in a way I'd not expected and then as I was getting my head in place revising and mentally gearing up for an important exam he suddenly told me to get myself off to the PE block and get showered I think I'd have looked at him as if he was a comedian. I very much doubt I'd have complied to such a generalised order even if the thought of cooling off was rather nice.

Subject to further info I'm struggling with this if I'm perfectly honest. I've never heard anything close to like it before.

Children are brought up with parents ramming home about stranger danger and not to let people touch or see parts of the body that they don't want others too see. Then they are sent too school and are expected to strip naked in front of everyone.
When I was at school the showers were cold or freezing and had no privacy and quite often your clothes were hidden or put in the corridor.

When you get up in the morning, you have a shower & a wash, come home from school, have a shower & a wash - how smelly can you get? and if you ARE smelly - who does it hurt? I travelled to school fifty years ago on buses full of people wearing wool clothes, smoking, who only bathed once a week ( if they HAD access to a bath) and I never came down with cholera. And I've no allergy problems....

I remember dreading games because of the compulsory communal showers at around eleven to fifteen years old, we all did. Twenty or thirty naked bodies in a confined space at once like sardines. We barely got wet or could move enough to bend over and wash properly. It was just going through the motions for the sake of it. I know it was a significant contributory factor in my avoidance of all team sports since. I don't know why my school had to make physical activity such a torture. I was often in agony with muscles or even bruised. As far as I'm concerned the sadists they employed as Games teachers in the 70s and 80s are responsible for today's obesity crisis. I lost count of the amount of lads I saw being shamed about their physical bodily appearances (inside we were not allowed shirts 90% of the time) or even sometimes physically hit. I was witness to an actual assault one day in our locker room when one regularly mouthy lad used a selection of four letter words at one of these sadists who then physically grabbed and squeezed his whole penis and testicles in his one hand for about five seconds before letting go. He actually got away with that. I've often googled the name of that teacher to see if he ever appeared in some historical come uppance, no luck on that. Don't go telling me someone did that as a one off that I just happened to see. Another one often enjoyed roughly pushing some of us to the floor or ground unexpectedly under some dubious pretence. That's being a fifteen year old in a 1979 fee paying private school for you. When I left the place it was like being given parole after doing my time.

Leaving the school shower / changing room open in a heatwave to allow pupils access to one to cool down in break times if they'd like to freshen up seems an eminently reasonable and forward thinking policy to me.

But mandating them to do it. No. That's not the school's business to do that when PE lessons aren't involved.

Can you throw a bit more detail about how all this worked Paul.

Paul you said - 'we all had to report to the changing room and take a cold shower'.

So it was compulsory was it? Halfway through the school day a bunch of 16 year olds to go along and line up for a cold shower at O level age when many were about to leave school. Come off it! Sorry Paul. My class associates and everyone I know would have laughed in their face if they'd tried that one on us lot at that age, even after years of twice weekly PE showering. If it was a purely voluntary side option to be taken up that's another matter entirely.

I thought it was unusual what you wrote too Paul. Not the taking of a shower, or even a cold one in a high temperature long lasting heatwave, but that you seemed to suggest the school was telling its classes to take such a thing completely unconnected to an actual PE lesson or equivalence. That was the bit that seemed unusual if I read you correctly.

If I'd been 16, taking my exams on a hot day, which I probably did actually as they're mainly in May or June, I'd have found it completely weird to be hustled off to shower like that in the normal course of an academic school exam day devoid of any actual physical education having taken place.

I liked what Rick's school did in dealing with the 1976 heatwave, how imaginitive was that and actual enjoyable by the sound of it. No such imaginitive ideas would be allowed now would they. I bet you couldn't find one line in the national press about global warming that summer and I bet there wasn't a single school closure either.

Mark on 19th July 2022 at 18:10

Why would taking showers in a heat wave be unusual? I think we all welcomed them and thought it was a good idea.

In terms of numbers, there were often four classes at a time doing PE so about 120 lads and the changing room - all one big one, was big enough for all of us and the showers - obviously back then communal and probably 150 heads meant 200 lads didn't take that long for a refreshing soak, as I said, I think the problem was more getting us out than in.

It was a boy's grammar school, day only.

This may sound cryptic but it's straightforward, following my one and only post to date some weeks ago. Has anyone had any private feedback through leaving their email that left them wondering a bit about what they had been sent and why from the individual who sent it? If so I'd like to hear from you and possibly compare notes. Thanks for that.

I actually left my middle school in July '76 during that long heatwave, a month before my 12th birthday. There was no getting sent home early or days off, and no staying inside even, my memory is we spent a lot of time outside even doing regular lessons but went into shaded areas. It was great.

In summer '76 our school got one of those extra large makeshift pools you could buy mail order for probably a couple of hundred pounds. This went onto some grass beside the playground and was filled with cold water and we could use it at lunchtime if we brought our swim trunks, or if girls brought theirs. I think it took about 20-25, almost a class size. The water was about 2ft deep I reckon, but great for a splash and keeping cool. If a lot of us wanted to use it, and it was popular, we were time limited to just 10 or 15 minutes but got a go most lunchtimes that summer for what seemed like forever. I even remember our teachers and dinner ladies taking part too on many days. I'm also sure they had a couple of sprinklers going during our break times so we could keep cool. Like others have said, most of us turned up in shorts and could kick our shoes off and take the t-shirt off and cool off like that and then put them back on quickly. Our damp shorts would dry rapidly.

Nobody was scared of the weather and ran away from it like they are doing now, we embraced it and acted according to the conditions and enjoyed it rather than saw it as what someone last night on the news called 'severe weather'.

How sad to hear that so many are now being kept inside or sent home instead of doing the fun things both us kids and even the adults got up to without much complaint.

I've no idea how they beat any hosepipe bans or drought orders back then, that's another story entirely and beyond anything I know about.

Cold showers in school in the '76 heatwave - instructed to take them Paul, at exam age? That's unusual. How do you get a couple of hundred guys doing that in a short space of time? What type of school was it, boarding?

Must admit if I'd been in school today and the chance of hitting the cold showers was offered I'd have jumped at it instantly and been first in.

At about 11pm last night I ran a cold bath for myself to lie in, not a hint of hot at all, simply the cold. You'd never know it though. I knew it would be warmed up a bit and far from normal cold water feeling but was shocked just how lukewarm it came out and laying there trying to cool off in it before bed it felt like a genuinely slightly warmed bath after a couple of minutes and I got out not feeling anywhere near as fresh as I'd hoped.

The local schools near me seemed to turn up this morning but I noticed began emptying for the day at lunchtime. I asked someone who went past me and she said they'd had a sudden message the school was shutting, no warning at all. Utterly foolish. The kids were all in school, staying inside I suppose, which with blinds down would remain okay just as if they were at home indoors. What was gained by cutting short the day by 2 to 3 hours when they'd all turned out I don't know.

As others have said here, you'd never have got sent home in 1976 or at any other time in the past, you'd be sitting outside in the shade maybe or staying inside and even being allowed to discard clothing completely off. Not being sent home. What is it with teachers nowadays?

I remember the summer of 1976, I was doing my 'O' levels so there was no possibility of any let up from being at school. I remember we were allowed to take off our ties and roll up our sleeves and before the afternoon session started each day we all had to report to the changing room and take a cold shower which was very welcome and probably did something to reduce the smell of about 200 sweaty boys in the exam hall which didn't have great ventilation.

There was no choice about that, one of the PE masters had a list and you name was ticked off as you came out. I don't think it was a problem getting lads to comply, more getting us out once we were in.

There are some strangely prudish and wildly over-sensitive women on mumsnet. Some of them don't even like adult men or even teenagers being seen shirtless outside anywhere and only think it is acceptable for very small children and only then when in their own garden.

Well the opposite sex can get their tops off wherever they like says I. One of the women I saw said if she did it outside publicly then it would be illegal. I think it must have just been jealousy actually. I certainly envy the right that the opposite sex has to be able to remove their entire top half and go about freed from cloth. I often wished I could do the same. I know a lot of men have come on here and complained about being forced to do it in school and that's fair enough but I still think you should realise how fortunate you all are to at least be able to.

I wish I'd been in a class at school where the boys had been allowed to take their tops off in normal lessons like one person said he did, and from what I remember he made no comment about the interaction with the girls in his class so it can't have been much of a big thing can it.

Interesting comments from both Fiona and Jim this evening.

I do enjoy a little bit of humour in a post such as that from Biff.

There are two primary schools near to me, one very close by and another about half a mile away. Today seemed to be a tale of two different attitudes to the significant heat. The primary near to me seemed to forbid the children from even going outside at any point during the school day today. At least they remained open. There was absolute silence during lunch hour from 12 noon to 1pm where there is normally plenty of playground noise. The same at the morning and afternoon break times. Total silence. I walked past briefly and not a person in sight but they were all in their classrooms, you could see that quite easily.

The other primary a little bit further was very different. As I drove past the school large numbers of those children were outside but under the huge trees in the shade in groups, presumably by class, I don't know. When I went past on my way back home again later there were quite clearly a large number of boys sitting cross legged in the shade working or quietly reading to themselves and a few of them were not wearing a top. All were staying well in the shade. How refreshingly sensible.

So it really depends what kind of person you have in charge of the school. I'd like to think the one that actually let it's children outside in a sensible way and even allowed boys to discard their tops took the more rounded decision.

So only a few weeks ago Craig came on here and told us about how he spent a couple of weeks in the 1976 heatwave stripped off to the waist in school each day and lo and behold a similar situation has come along and been able to prove that even now you can have a school that will go for that with the boys, whilst of course another school has to revert to typical 2022 type and literally hold their children hostage inside on a lovely but sweltering summers day.

Biff - there;s a thread on Mumsnet today discussing the pros and cons of the school who let their Reception year kids strip to their underwear, for which read pants/knickers, since few, if any, kids wear vests these days, especially in the sort of temperatures we are experiencing this week.

So Monday and Tuesday are effectively "National Go To School In Your PE Kit Days" due to the exceptional heat.

I wonder how many brave boys who still do shirtless PE are going to trot off in the morning, rucksacks on their bare backs in just their shorts getting their feet burned on the hot pavements, which of course it will be hot enough to fry an egg on won't it (not).

Just don't forget your SPF50 if you've got more than a 10 minute walk to school.

;-)

There might have been another motive for British schools to make their boys go shirtless outdoors.

Commonwealth immigration was a contentious issue at this time and perhaps these old-fashioned schools feared the enrollment of immigrant children would upset the locals. At the same time, they might not have found it feasible to explicitly ban immigrants from enrolling their kids and so sought to subtly suggest to immigrants that their values would not be compatible with school policy.

It is common knowledge that commonwealth cultures value modesty therefore immigrants from these cultures would not be comfortable with their sons going shirtless around girls or their daughters running about with shirtless boys (who might not even have been from their commonwealth background, which would have made immigrant parents even less comfortable.)

Perhaps these schools hoped sending their boys out barechested to run cross country with girls would make any immigrants who saw them think twice about enrolling their kids there.