Burnley Grammar School

That was a good update Craig, thanks.

So you've got a PC on board for that. I can't resist saying this but it seems the only way to get a bobby on the beat pounding the actual streets now is to get them shirtless then!

Good luck getting your member number 30, solicitors and police, certainly attracting the professional class isn't it.

Responding to what Terry wrote, I agree.

Earl Spencer said something in that article that also made me think of how you write on here at times Alan with your own angst.

"'I've frequently witnessed deep pain, still flickering in the eyes of my Maidwell contemporaries,' he writes. 'Many of us left Maidwell with demons sewn into the seams of our souls.'"


That is a very powerful last sentence I think.

A very deeply shocking story, with a school from the headmaster down, the latin teacher and the matron who was barely a teenager herself, to name just three there, all abusing their positions and the parents paying a small fortune for it all. The trouble is the kind of parents who pay and send off to these places have quite remote relationships with their own children in so many cases.

I've also noticed a pattern with some of these stories at times, there is the forced naked swimming and here it is again written down, not the PE teacher doing it but the Latin teacher for God's sake.

"The school's violent Latin master, Henry Maude, beat him with the spikes of a cricket boot and knocked another boy unconscious.

Maude selected boys for naked swimming sessions, during which the teacher would be visibly sexually aroused.

Earl Spencer was gripped by such 'despair' when returning to Maidwell after holidays that he regularly considered shooting himself in the foot with one of his father's shotguns.

Reliving Maidwell's regime of 'casual cruelty' and 'sexual assault' has been an 'absolutely hellish experience'"


I thought it was quite revealing that Earl Spencer said it only began to hit home what had happened by the time he reached his 40s while in therapy. I think something similar might have happened on here with some posters who offload long unsaid thoughts about their schooldays, of which you are the most obvious example Alan.

I hope that anybody who comes on this thread with any abuse or dismissing of you in the future will no longer be tolerated. Reading over recent weeks since the new year does seem like a more reasonable discussion even when there is disagreement.

I always had one teacher at school, in PE, who I wanted to avoid at all costs if possible but compared to what I read in the Mail article he was a pussycat. I would be totally devastated tonight if I had a son Earl Spencer's age who had gone to that school.

Interesting to read what you say there Stuart B. I presume you really wanted to know why they were running shirtless, not what they were running for, and they misunderstood or something along those lines.

Now we are getting into spring soon our group has grown on some of the more recent runs we do. Yesterday we had one of our biggest ever bareskin runs together when 14 of us managed it, doing nearly 10 miles during Saturday afternoon around a local beauty spot not far from most of our homes. Our group now has 29 members and I'm sure we are going to gain our 30th any day now.

It's a complete fallacy to think that only supremely confident men take to doing bareskin running with bare chests outdoors. I'm sure that there are plenty of men on here who have spoken about how happy they were at school doing shirtless PE within the gym who would not as adults be at all willing to do what I do for example, even if they have kept themselves in reasonable shape into middle age or older.

It didn't surprise me when you said you had seen a 60 year old doing this Stuart, our group had a 66 year old running with us yesterday and he's in better shape than many half his age I should add. But the point of running like this isn't about showing off ourselves or keeping it exclusive to people in good trim fit shape, we would equally welcome someone who was overweight (or underweight) and wanted to use it to better themselves as well. We make absolutely no judgement at all about how anyone looks and anyone is welcome to join us if they are genuine about it, or just want to try as a one off to see if it's for them.

A couple of weekends ago on a quite chilly night I did a late evening 10pm bareskin run with three other men on a short half hour sprint and we came upon a community PCSO who saw us and gestured for us to stop, which was fine but this very young woman actually asked us what we were doing, and we said running and wanted to know why we were doing it bare chested, bless her, she thought we must be frozen, we weren't, fresh yes. One of the gentleman with me, a 45 year old solicitor asked her if she had stopped us out of personal curiosity or if she thought we were committing an offence of some kind. It was curiosity, obviously no offence, and I asked if she had any male colleagues who would like to join us anytime, and handed over my whatsapp bareskins running group number. We ran off leaving her beaming and I'm sure she recounted the story back at work. Three days later an actual 29 year old police constable contacted me on whatsapp and asked for details and has now joined too and he joined us for the first time yesterday.

I'd just like to know if anyone else has been given the urge to do this and set up something similar since I wrote about doing this or would consider it in the future?

Richard:

What was the reaction of your classmates and of you having to be shirtless for PE back then? Was it ever a topic of conversation among you? How did you play team sports being shirtless all the time? Did you have any mixed PE lessons with girls present?

When I was at school the uniform rules were quite strictly enforced so the boys never did shirts and skins in PE, at least not technically. For team games they had reversible shirts that they could turn inside out depending on how they were assigned. The end result being that we still got a quick peek of all of them shirtless at some point. As I recall, it was something of a highlight for us. I remember when they got called to change their tops around, some of the shy boys used to try to do it as quick as possible or turn their backs whereas the more confidant ones seemed to enjoy the attention they got from us and took their sweet time taking their tops off and putting them on again. After the lesson, some even liked to pull their shirts off on the way back to the changing rooms so we got a nice view. I remember them getting yelled at on more than one occasion but did not otherwise get into any more trouble.

Comment by: Terry on 9th March 2024 at 23:13


Thank you, Terry - genuinely appreciate that. This was kind of the point I was making to Orson this morning. Whether poor or rich, like Earl Spencer's parents were, it always pays - in my view, to really play an active part in your child's school life. The fact is most people pack the kids off to school 40 weeks a year, buys them the books and stuff they need and that is their job done. It never occurs to them to question some of the methods and practices that go on while they are there each Monday to Friday. Therefore, it is not surprising that some teachers overstep the mark of being in loco parentis. A lot of teachers just love the power that they have, and, if unchecked , they will get more bold as time goes on, if there is no brake put on them. This truly repulsive sounding woman, and the equally revolting headmaster clearly had problems that one would hope would get them weeded out at the selection process today - and of course, women can harbour unsavoury desires just as much as men. But I bet there are still a few rotten apples in the barrel, just as we have sadly seen with the police in recent times.

I suspect the Earl, though he is obviously going to make some money out of this story has probably only recently got round to processing his feelings - perhaps as a result of writing about his life, and it is amazing how the past can come back to haunt you years later - in my case the feelings of anger really didn't surface till I got to my 40s.

That bit about the chalkboard rubber I mentioned to Orson - it happened to me when I was 15, doddery old Mr Burke, threw it at great force at the boy sitting next to me, who had been taking the gypsies, and caught me on the jaw (buggered up my embouchure for a few weeks). Not a word of apology from him or even an "are you alright?", as he would have lost face even more, but when I went home and mum saw the mark and asked how I got it I just said it had been meant for Tony, sitting next to me. "oh" she said. That was it. Luckily no harm done, no dental damage just a feeling of annoyance.

Is it any wonder they get away with behaviour that most grown adults would not even consider.

They would not get away with it if I were a parent,. but it just shows what schools - even "good" ones can get away with, if they are not questioned on their methods by parents. That is why I suggested to Mel, don't be afraid to ask questions.

Comment by: Orson on 9th March 2024 at 18:49



My point Orson, is that based on personal experience, if only parents had taken a more active interest in the old dump I went to, for example, some of the excesses that went on there, from two teachers in particular, and a general lack of interest from nearly all of them, things might have been better for the pupils. As it was, you just got sent off every day, and nobody queried the yelling and the bullying, and the marks from when you caught the chalkboard rubber on your face from the old relics. They were not accountable to anybody. That is the way they liked it, of course.

It is like some of the people on this forum - when they are not harrumphing about how "soft" kids are today, they just take the teachers words as gospel, just like our grandparents used to give God-like status to doctors - but even in that august profession there are the Dr. Shipmans. Parents should query everything and not just give teachers the benefit of the doubt. Like politicians they need to be held to account - they work for us, not the other way round, and they are given good salaries and long holidays for doing so.

I see no need to require a reason for requiring or wanting bare chested PE any more than you'd expect a reason for requiring white or blue shorts in the same PE class. It's just the PE kit. I think any school is perfectly entitled to ask those that attend to do so without having to defend its reason why.

The only problem I did have as a supply teacher (non PE) some 30 years ago was I would notice boys who had misbehaved in the school gym getting sent outside to stand in the corridor with their hands on their head once in a while, whilst not wearing the top or footwear and in the shorts alone by a certain member of the PE staff at the time. I didn't like that way of dealing with problems, it was designed to be deliberately demeaning I thought.

I saw 3 men running shirtless past my house when cutting the grass late this afternoon. I asked why and they said they were training for the London Marathon, but not why they were shirtless! Better luck next time if I see them again. They were not exactly young either, one looked 60, the others 40's.

There is a quite disturbing front page on tomorrow's Mail On Sunday about Princess Diana's brother Earl Spencer being abused by a FEMALE matron at school when just 11 who he describes as a "voracious paedophile" who preyed on young boys in dormitories at his boarding school Maidwell Hall.

Earl Spencer is now almost 60 and would have been 11 back in 1975.

When I read this and the headline I immediately thought about you Alan, even though there is much you say that I am not in agreement with at times, but I hope it makes at least some of your detractors just pause for thought. But of course in this case we are talking about a woman here, and that is a really big taboo isn't it.

But the male headmaster is also mentioned. There is a horrible line in this article that says - "John Porch, the 'terrifying and sadistic' headteacher of the exclusive prep school, inflicted brutal beatings, seemingly gaining sexual pleasure from the violence."

I think Earl Spencer is probably a very credible witness and the only shame is that he took so long to say this. Many people will probably ask, why now, but I suppose why anytime?

Can you imagine being the parent of any boy who went through this school, hearing this and now wondering about your own son. Here we are again, looking straight into some kind of dark period that reigned in the 1970's and 80's like so many others have previously mentioned in relation to basic treatment at school.

But I do not agree that he should have waited until he had a memoir out to make money with before revealing this information. That is very cynical, and if it was so serious why wait for a book, it should have been said years ago.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13176925/How-sexually-abused-just-11-school-matron-Dianas-brother-EARL-SPENCER-reveals-devastating-memoir-says-trauma-left-life-long-toll.html

My answer to you Mel as a child who spent many a time in a school PE lesson in just my shorts is don't worry about it at all. With any group of people you are going to get a few who are not so confident or shy about things, and school is no different. It's normal.

I myself NEVER wore a top in the school gym for PE in the mid to late 70s from the day I arrived until fifth form broke up for exams, and whoever took us it was the same, and I must have had about 6 to 8 different male PE teachers during my time at Filton High in Gloucestershire that I was at.

I was thinking about Nathan's coin vote the other day and wondering whether I would have been a head or tails, shirt or no shirt child if I had been given that chance. If it had been taken after doing PE in my bare chest for quite a while I think I'd have voted in favour but it could well have been different if I had been allowed a vote right at the start before doing any PE at all and just imagining it.

Doing is always better than thinking about things.

I had a quite unsympathetic PE teacher when at school, see my post on 26th Jan about that, and spent my time in the gym shirtless, and climbing this that and the other, but I do still find your own reaction today just a little bit OTT Alan.

Comment by: A Yorkshiredad on 9th March 2024 at 11:04
"Lastly I ask a favour. Last post I included a link to a video. Please do not mention the schools name on this forum, The video and others available on YouTube are there to give you a feeling of the school being discussed but not to criticise. Thank you."


I'll respect what you have said here but wonder why you have said this. If this is the school I am thinking of, it's one that has previously been named on here not so long ago and had a sports day video clip link shown isn't it. If you do not wish anything to be identified then why place a link in the first place that identifies it for anyone who accesses it. Do you actually work at this school?

I respect your wish and have been finding your comments quite interesting to say the least.

Interesting thread.

In the late 1980s my only child was of school age and went through a period almost immediately after starting his new upper school of asking me or his mother to write letters to the teacher to excuse him from PE. We always refused to do so because there was no reason to write anything. It must have gone on for three months, weekly. We then discovered he had successfully written a fake note that had been accepted and sat a lesson out, the school had rung to verify it later in the day but we kept quiet and never told him we knew. Later we found out he was just leaving all his PE kit at home so he couldn't do it at all when he had to go outside. We kept asking what the actual problem was and got the same reply, nothing, just don't like it. Which was surprising because as a kid he was always active and out doing things.

Eventually we found out that the reason he disliked PE was not even the PE at all, it was having to shower and he wanted to avoid that at all costs but couldn't if he did PE. When he admitted this he asked if we could write a note again about that, but we both refused. I then spoke to two PE teachers at the school in person at the end of a school day when I was invited in and they expressed complete astonishment that this was his reason and told me that he'd given not the slightest clue that showering at school was an issue and he'd been doing so when asked to without any hint of complaint when he actually did PE.

We had this for about three months and then it all just stopped overnight and there were never any problems again and I got increasingly positive feedback about his PE achievements thereafter. I think some eleven and twelves just get a big shock with the school change, or did so back then, and initially find it hard to cope with and some kick back against it in the only way they feel they can before finally coming to terms with how things are done.

A Yorkshiredad, he only does one PE lesson each week and they alternate between going outdoors and staying inside, so the school gym only comes around every fortnight like that anyway according to the school timetable I have been given each year. Without knowing the name of the school you are referring to I cannot answer your question but I know nothing of such a thing happening so probably not.

At face value I am not concerned about the actual doing of PE in a bare chest, as long as all the others are also and the rule is applied evenly. I was quite surprised when I first discovered it was how they did PE, more that I didn't know beforehand than anything else. If he had maintained his early worries about it I might have become more concerned but that has not happened and I would not see it as relevant or appropriate for me to intervene in any way at all at this stage of things. I have no idea if there is an actual method reason for this way of doing things, such as what you suggest about loose clothing, that might be something I could ask directly next time I have a parent/teacher evening in the coming months.

I would say that as long as you keep parents informed properly that would be a good start, and putting the feelers out about what the actual youngsters think about such things as bare chested PE is also not a bad idea either, and being open and explaining why things are done a certain way like this is helpful. I don't think it should be banned or anything like that, I also think that would be an extreme over reaction as much as you described the reaction to the tangled kit.

I got some reassurance from seeing the results of the PE teacher class here last week which suggested the vast majority were left unconcerned by this type of PE kit decision, so obviously a lot of boys like this too. My own son has been on holidays in the past recent summers and taken his top off on those with us, he looks absolutely fine, just rarely when back home does he do so, but he is not completely averse to doing so, just in certain situations I think or like many teenagers doesn't really like being told to do things he's not really wanting to do.

Comment by: Mel on 8th March 2024 at 22:17
I've been to a couple of parent/teacher evenings and almost mentioned this but never done so because I don't think it would change anything if that's how they do things, and no he's been doing it for over two years he must have done about 50 PE lessons like it over that time and so it seems a bit late to mention now and he's settled into it.



Mel, absolutely do not mention it at all is my strong advice. What is the point, he's been doing shirtless PE now for quite long enough by the look of what you say and will be more than used to it by now. Any interference might be completely counter productive and he's probably more alright with it than you realise by now. If he's now done fifty lessons what is there to be hiding from anyone? Many perfectly normal boys at school in the past will have had small anxieties about such things at first, quite normal feelings I'd suggest. As long as nobody is singled out to be like that deliberately while others in class are not, such as Yorkshire Dad says, then really there is nothing wrong is there, as long as all the class participate the same. It would look very strange if after a couple of years you interfered and he then got to stand out different from others wouldn't it, and I doubt he'd actually want that either. If you read the Mark Twyford story back in February about such a thing you will understand.

Comment by: A Yorkshiredad on 9th March 2024 at 11:04


I can only repeat what I implied to Mel, that is, if you start "obeying" every one of these suddenly concocted "rules" they just start making up more and more platry ones. It begs the question in the schools in question in these messages, if lads have "struggled" with wearing shirts for years, why suddenly introduce a non-shirt policy years down the line even if it was because of one accident . Every day on their way to school you can be sure one kid will either have an accident or be involved in a near miss, nut nobody would suggest banning cars because it MIGHT happen. I would put it to you that this stupid rule was the whim of a teacher or head teacher who wants to exercise what little bit of "power" they have left.

I have still not yet heard one convincing argument for the policy, from the teachers on this site, and I suggest that is because there is no valid reason. Parents should not be so meek and accepting - teachers are mere humans, not some omniscient god, and they need to be able to justify their actions to the parents who help pay their wages.

Mel, that was really interesting to hear about your sons experiences in PE. Is there any more you can add. Why was it only every other week, what was different about those lessons? Do you think it was done for Health and Safety or some other reason.

I remember reading something on a teachers forum a couple of years ago, They had just introduced a policy change to their indoor PE kit because a boy had broken his arm during gymnastics. A loose fitting t-shirt sliding down and getting tangled in equipment was given as the cause of the accident and therefore the school had returned to a shorts only kit. Not just for gymnastics but for all activities. I remember it clearly because it seemed such an extreme thing to do. Could this be your sons school Mel.

The only other time I read about a shorts only kit was on the Ex-Pats forum maybe ten years ago. There, a mother was expressing surprise and consternation that the new school for her two sons aged 9 and 11 had an indoor PE kit of white shorts only. She never said the boys would not be going though. This time the boys are the same age as the ones I teach and it was likely to be a fee-paying school.

Regarding your question David.

"Do you actively disagree with this policy or not though? ….and what your actual attitude is to bare chested PE. In principle are you for or against it, or ambivalent about it?"

I do not disagree with the policy. It is a practical PE kit for summer. There is a good chance it will encourage the boys to be more active in class. They should feel more comfortable and maybe there is even a Health and Safety benefit, or at least the school will have been seen to be reacting to a perceived problem. They are also use to being bare chested together with the girls in swim class where they spend about 25% of the lesson out of the pool.

Lastly I ask a favour. Last post I included a link to a video. Please do not mention the schools name on this forum, The video and others available on YouTube are there to give you a feeling of the school being discussed but not to criticise. Thank you.

Comment by: Mel on 8th March 2024 at 22:17


Mel I would say just because your son doesn't mention it now, doesn't mean to say that he likes it or is comfortable with it. I would take it up with the school.

Remember a few weeks ago a lady called Frances told us that she was still concerned she hadn't taken up something her son told her over 40 years ago?.

I think if more parents were willing to challenge the school on some of the ridiculous "rules" they make up as they go along there might be fewer of them.

Some form teachers aided and abetted by their headmasters, seem to think they are some sort of God, whose word cannot be challenged. Challenge them and see what happens.

Like a few of the people on this forum they seem to think time is marching backwards instead of forwards, and you usually find they have no real answer when you ask the question why.

All this excessive worrying over a bit of physical education being done minus a bit of cloth to cover the torso is surely a bit extreme when there are now two actual teachers on here expressing thoughts about whether they should or not and one is taking votes sand surveying his class about it and another is feeling unsure.

School shouldn't be about voting to choose what you like and don't like. Get them doing PE bare chested whether they like it or not, that's a perfectly acceptable way to turn out in physical education if you are a young male, or an older one too past school age.

I even did PE outdoors without anything on my top half in school once upon a time. Our PE teacher would say something like, 'right lads, leave your tops behind, your getting outside without today, so get a move on' and with that we'd often file out and have to warm up clapping our hands above our heads and jumping on the spot for a few moments on such days. Then we'd be off possibly for a light jog around the school field perimeter a few times, a close collection of upwards of 30 or so totally shirtless teenage boys. Nobody would dissent to it even if they were the incredibly shy about it, and many initially shy boys actually grew to be fine with it.

Boys haven't fundamentally changed that much down the years, so I say forget all this excessive concern and just get on with it if there is a bare chest mandate.

The Yorkshire Dad's comment about schools and decision making hit me there.

My own son goes to a school in Daventry, Northants, and every two weeks he has a gym lesson on the Thursday morning which has been compulsory bare chested for the past two years he has been there, he's just coming up to 14 soon (I'm 46) and he did make a fuss about how much he disliked it when he first began doing so but seems to have accepted it now reluctantly, but doesn't really like doing so. He's one of those boys that isn't really into staying stripped off above his waist at home either.

There was no indication beforehand that PE at the school would be done like that until he came home from his first indoor PE gym lesson proper in September 2021 and told me what he'd done and has since kept on doing. I remember asking him if there was choice in the matter and he told me everyone just got told to do so and remain stripped to the waist after taking their school shirt off.

I've been to a couple of parent/teacher evenings and almost mentioned this but never done so because I don't think it would change anything if that's how they do things, and no he's been doing it for over two years he must have done about 50 PE lessons like it over that time and so it seems a bit late to mention now and he's settled into it.

Comment by: A Yorkshiredad on 8th March 2024 at 15:04




"Schools are not democracies and cannot be run that way, "


A true, but shocking indictment in 2024.

Comment by: A Yorkshiredad on 8th March 2024 at 15:04

Thanks for your response.

Do you actively disagree with this policy or not though?

Also, you didn't answer whether you would be prepared to go skins with your class in those situations and what your actual attitude is to bare chested PE, unless I have missed that somewhere previously.

In principle are you for or against it, or ambivalent about it?

Thanks for your interest, I can quickly give some replies.

David
"Do those affected by this rule your head teacher has chosen to implement actually know what faces them during the summer term, or after Easter? If I remember what you previously said some time ago, this kit policy started last year, am I correct?"

Term 3 or Summer term starts mid-April David when the kids return from Easter holiday. The Year 5 and 6 boys have indeed already experienced the policy, although there are boys who are new to the school in these classes too. For the 8/9 year old boys in year 4 it will be the first time. They will have seen boys doing PE in the hall last year though, its quite open. The Junior boys do indeed know about the kit for summer term, it was in the uniform instructions to parents at the start of the school year, but I doubt they have thought about it much. It will only be when it happens that they will realise how different it will feel to work in class that way.

"Out of interest, in your own schooldays, however long ago they were, did you do PE this way very much and what did you think or feel about it at the time?"

I was their age back in the early 1990's. It was a normal suburban Primary school. For indoor PE I wore a singlet and shorts and had bare feet. I think this was very normal for that time.

Andy
"You could just tell them that you're making a lesson optional bare chests and see what happens, whilst making it clear that next term they are going to have to do so, if that is what the school has infact decided. Do you foresee problems with anyone over this?"

It cannot be optional Andy, partly for the reasons given in a previous post. Schools are not democracies and cannot be run that way, sorry. No opting out.

Every boy must be involved so no-one feels singled out. If every boy is busy being bare top and active at the same time no-body should feel strange, that is the hope. That is why I have ruled out using games in which the boys remove their tops when they get caught. It would mean some boys are fully clothed while others are bare chested. I think from next week I will simply ask the boys to do a fitness session during the lesson towards the end and this will be when I ask them to work without their tops. (Our indoor PE lessons usually involve about 10 minutes of activity to warm up, stretching and running around, followed by 30 minutes of creative movement to music then finally 15 minutes of games.)






https://youtu.be/yrEIq2Z_XCE

A Yorkshire Dad - You could just tell them that you're making a lesson optional bare chests and see what happens, whilst making it clear that next term they are going to have to do so, if that is what the school has infact decided. Do you foresee problems with anyone over this? I think if the teacher is willing and able to take the lesson without his own top on and be shirtless for gym it could also act as encouragement in itself, that's if it's even needed, it might not be.

Just don't make going bare chests in PE into a big deal with them. Try and play it down as an entirely routine way to expect a group of boys to be like in the gym, even in 2024, and tell them how we've all been there and done it before them.

Comment by: Richard on 7th March 2024 at 20:51
These are my own Filton High schooldays gym pictures on Flickr. Not my actual class but one a year earlier than mine, same gym though, but much the same to look at. Bare chests for me started in 1975 and were mandatory for all in our gym PE lessons and remained that way further up the years. I put them up on here before about a month ago.




Looks like you forgot to put the links up in your post. So I will do it for you! Some nice photo's there, including the two of your shirtless gym on display.

https://www.flickr.com/people/134490316@N07

https://www.flickr.com/photos/134490316@N07/

My suggestion to you A YorkshireDad is to do what you suggest, break any new class unused to shirtless PE in gently with it if you think that works best. I do though think you can sometimes rather overthink this however. Just act like doing PE like that is the most normal thing in the world, because it is really.

These are my own Filton High schooldays gym pictures on Flickr. Not my actual class but one a year earlier than mine, same gym though, but much the same to look at. Bare chests for me started in 1975 and were mandatory for all in our gym PE lessons and remained that way further up the years. I put them up on here before about a month ago. Overall I think it might have given us a better body image to be seen and see everyone for what they are in our actual 'skin'.


Picking up a point on commercial gyms desiring coverage and not showing actual bodies while on their premises, can this really be the case? I saw a really peculiar video which made the news from the USA about a year ago in one gym over there where someone minding their own business working out shirtless in a quiet gym was approached by a very creepy man asking about his shirtless working out. The whole incident was filmed and was very strange indeed. Maybe someone else can find it online and post it, or knows about it.

James Finch, it was nice to see your own video from South Africa. I agree it looked like a typical British sports day, and I also noticed the lack of trainers on the feet of nearly all of you lot there. I think there is a thought process that suggests that trainers restrict proper movement and running completely barefoot is actually far more beneficial than sticking the latest hundred quid nikes on your feet even if they have the latest air cushion technology and are lightweight.

Yorkshire Dad, your own suggestion sounds quite sensible. Do those affected by this rule your head teacher has chosen to implement actually know what faces them during the summer term, or after Easter? If I remember what you previously said some time ago, this kit policy started last year, am I correct?

Like has been said to Nathan Hind on here, would you be allowed to or be prepared to simply discard your own top and lead by example when you are expected to take class bare chested? Maybe an indication of your own age would be helpful here. Would you even think it appropriate for yourself? Has anyone directly asked the head teacher about his rule or questioned it?

Out of interest, in your own schooldays, however long ago they were, did you do PE this way very much and what did you think or feel about it at the time. It's obvious you have reservations.

Some of the Nathan suggestions by others to him have been quite reasonable I thought, but in the end there's nothing wrong with doing PE like that in my opinion even with some who are less assured.

Reading so many of your memories that mention dislike of working in PE bare chested made me think that if possible, the implementation of the same kit policy at this school next term should be introduced in a careful way.

Should i introduce the boys to working without their tops on for part of the lesson in these last few weeks before Easter holidays. I do think it should be done in a way that includes everybody. No-one should feel singled out. Perhap Mr Hind or others could suggest for me an activity best suited for this. Mr Hind, which activities do you sometimes ask your year 7 boys to do in just shorts?

I have come to the conclusion that it would be a good idea to let them feel how it is to be active in a PE lesson bare top, hopefully they will come away feeling it is less stange. It will be less impact full for ghem when after Easter holidays they are asked to leave their PE tops at home.

Here is another early PE lesson video, see if anyone can find one even older. If you have ever wondered were the whole idea of PE without a top on came from here is your answer,

https://www.dr.dk/bonanza/serie/702/dka/71344/gymnastik-i-1931

Shirtless PE as it was meant to be, outdoors in the fresh air, army style to get the kids ready for the next war.

Most school now have PE kit of shorts, vest-t shirt, trainers and socks.

I wondered if anyone knows of any where this is the "formal" kit, but where boys are free to skip items if they want, without any form of sanction. If so how many go shirtless, and how many strip to only shorts ?