Burnley Grammar School

Well Fiona going on a Northumberland school field trip in sixth form at seventeen there were fourteen boys, me included, in a youth hostel dorm and we were absolutely forbidden to sleep naked in our bunks for the ten days we slept together. We had to bring and wear proper pyjamas or equivalent and wear both tops and bottoms. Our male teacher did share the place with us too. Funnily enough we were allowed to walk along the landing to the open showers naked with our towels when we got up at 7am after stripping off our nightwear despite the fact we could have accidentally bumped into any of about ten girls the same age who came with us but were in another separate room with a female teacher not too far away. I actually think one or two of my friends wanted that to 'accidentally' happen but were disappointed. Waking up with many of your class day after day and staright into a shower with them was an experience in itself, the nearest I got to imagining what it must have been like being a full time boarder but coming from a regular school made it feel a bit weird.

I'm sure many users on here can still remember the very hot summer of 1976. I do because we were actually allowed to take our clothes off in normal classes, something that you just could not imagine happening now. I was a primary school kid of 10 that year and in the month before we broke up for summer, day after day the heat was unbearable even with the classroom windows wide open and there was no air conditioning. There probably isn't even now in most classrooms.

Our class teacher told boys who wanted to that they could work in the classroom with no tops on and our shirts, T-shirt or whatever we wore just hanging on the back of our chairs. Most of us were already coming to school in shorts as it was due to the heat, although you could wear shorts or long trousers as personal choice at any time.

It wasn't just my own class teacher who did this but all the boys in school were allowed to I think. In my own class over a couple of weeks from late June into early July around mid morning we all by choice took our shirts off and worked for the whole of the rest of the day bare chested and went out on the playground like it at lunchtime. Only school dinner kids who went to the canteen for lunch had to put their top on to eat but then it came off again as soon as finished. This went on for at least a couple of weeks or more, maybe 15 actual school days or so. Our school teachers were mostly ladies and we shared our class with girls the same age.

I think there might have been a bit of very young peer pressure even at that age when the majority of boys left our tops off and others felt they had to do so not to be different but my class everyone did and I really remember liking it and not feeling any self consciousness whatsoever.

The last days of total unconditional innocence. I think if the same thing had been proposed in class about three or four years later in high school then it would have been a very different outcome all round.

Another thing from that hot summer I also remember was that when we did PE outside on the school playground the heat of the tarmac surface on our bare feet was incredible to feel and almost unbearable.

Hugh - given all of the openness that you describe in your school environment, did pyjamas figure in your clothing list or did you and your dormitory mates leep naked.

Hugh, isn't that difference in Victorian England between the sexes quite striking in the complete extreme between the male and female persons. You made a fairly good and accurate point about it however they were not always segregated. Well off Victorian mothers who could afford day trips to the seaside around about the 1870's and 1880's would often use these trips as a subtle kind of sexual education for their daughters who while they were modestly attired at all times were allowed in close proximity to fully naked young men, including post puberty, in order to see them up close while they were on the beach or swimming while naked. Quite what some of the young men would have made of this I've no idea but it seems they were actively encouraged not to hide themselves if they came near to some of the opposite sex on the beaches in this era and it was tolerated. Quite the contrast. I presume if a well off family with a son and daughter went to the beach then the sister got a chance to maybe see her brother like that with it seeming perfectly acceptable, whereas if he had just stripped off naked back at home for her to take a look at it was probably thought of as immoral and unacceptable.

As for naked swimming in a British school setting as has been mentioned, I do remember seeing a documentary about 30 years ago now featuring a school where the pupils could turn up to lessons or not whenever they felt like it, and it had no uniform and looked like a free for all kind of place but seemed to ultimately work out quite well despite the anarchic nature of the rules. In this profile of the school they definitely showed the school swimming pool and it had completely naked boys swimming in it and beside it, in a mixed gender setting with girls alongside them in their costumes. Although from what I remember of this I think to call what went out on screen an actual swimming lesson was probably pushing it a bit. I think this went out on Channel 4 circa about 1992 or so. Maybe others can fill in a few more details if they have any idea what I'm talking about. As for wider naked school swimming I'm doubtful of that outside of boarding schools maybe. The thought of anyone doing that in a comprehensive or secondary at any point seems a total no go area.

Certainly Mr Dando is well known for his cut and paste jobs. So much of the latest effort seems to be fictional to me where any elements of truth have been muddied by wilder embellishments. The UK in this regard is most certainly not the USA either.

Robby - he didn't type it all out manually, just copied and pasted it verbatim. if you must look, it's at:

https://asstr.org/files/Authors/puericil/www/2019/Reports_Forced_Nudity_03to05.html

but I wouldn't bother if I were you.

I think being made to do circuit training (press ups, sit ups, squats, bench lifts, burpees, wallbar leg lifts) or proper PE (vaulting, hurdles, ropes, heavy medicine balls) good teaching, rather than abuse. Corporal punishment was a physical punishment appropriate to a physical activity and my father approved of my master's approach.

Robby, I went to boarding school in 1965 at the age of seven. Throughout my time there we swam naked in the school pool. Given that we also slept in dormitories where there was no privacy, used washrooms with communal showers, had toilets that had no doors on them, only waist high partitions between each can, medical inspections we all had to line up naked for and the ultimate sanction was a bare bottom caning, swimming naked didn't really rate as something to be bothered about.

Remember that from Victorian times, women used to go down to the sea in bathing machines all dressed in their voluminous costumes. Men did not and there was certainly no mixed bathing. Men went to a separate part of the beach where they stripped off and swam naked and most probably thought nothing of it.

Trunks only became normal when 'mixed' bathing became normal when swimming pools started to be build for the masses which was definitely a late 1960s and onwards thing.

Even if we had a swimming competition against another school - of course only a boys school, naked was normal and I don't remember seeing trunks in my time at school. I think I got my first pair when I went to university and the pool started to have mixed sessions but at the beginning there were men's days and women's days. I don't know what happened on the women's days but the men's days were naked in 1973. By the time I graduated in 1979, all sessions were mixed so trunks were always worn.

It's just a measure of how things have changed, it's not necessarily better, swimming naked feels very free compared to either tight speedos or the drag of wet shorts.

Tom F, I don't think we should view the past through the lens of the present in the way you suggest. I don't regard my time growing up as despicable in any way. Times and values change. When I was a boy, I experienced nothing other boys didn't, it was all quite normal and I was a very happy child.

Attempting to reframe the past in the time of the future is misguided and wrong. Please don't do it.

I was amused by Mr Dando's last post of 2nd June about the compulsary nude swimming for boys in schools, although it seems to be exclusively about American schools in the past.
I didn't read all of his long, endless post which must have taken him all day to type. :)
But I wonder, how common or rare was it for boys in British schools to take swim classes in the nude?

Things have certainly changed in many ways in today's schools.
I went to a state school in the 60s. In primary school we didn't have any gym or PE coach and we did our PE lessons in the schoolyard with white PE shorts and t-shirt, sometimes shirtless if the weather was fine and our normal class teacher was our coach, although we did just basic body exercises and running around the schoolyard. I think this was normal in non-private schools at the time.
Did any posters here have an actual gym at their primary school?

In secondary school it was different, with a fully equipped modern gym and showers with individual cubicles, although they didn't have any curtains so it was more like semi-privacy, but probably better than the gang showers that many describe here at their school.
Also as against primary school where corporal punishment was very common, it was quite rare at secondary school.

Time passes and reconditions us to what is acceptable. What now reads as quite dispicable would have once read as acceptable.

To teacher Robert. Good post, confusing and contradictory but communal showers definitely have not been phased out like your late 90's item suggested they intended at that stage. My eleven year old will be joining Wootton Park school in Northants in September this year and I've just received the details of the uniform and other required bits and bobs. I'm being told he needs as they put it, a towel for showering, as part of his P.E uniform and having made my own enquiry I'm told it's a single shower room. I'm fine with that if he has to use it. I haven't broached the subject with him direct as I see no point in making a big deal of such a thing. I'm 44 and did this in school throughout the first half of the 90's and although I remember feeling somewhat apprehensive over the summer holidays after the first time I took a communal shower with my class together fully naked I walked out the changing room afterwards feeling really pleased with myself and wondering what all the worry had been about as it just seemed a sensible and normal thing to do. I know not everyone feels the same obviously.

There is nothing on his P.E uniform that openly suggest any element of non shirted lessons but I did quite a few lessons in school with no shirt at times and I think most senior school kids shoud surely expect it at some point in time, swimming aside. Some ladies on mumsnet that I read seem to have a problem with it but as a father I don't and I wouldn't really expect my own to be concerned if he was told to do so. I'm sure my own would still be the mainstream opinion on things like this.

One thing that is grotesque is the physical abuse of kids just for under achieving tasks in P.E. The comments about that like the one from Roy C or teacher Robert, or Ian 2 beggar belief even by the attitude of those long past times.

Paul J, very similar memories of early 60's PE in boys grammar in Scotland. My joke is that I bent over the horse more times than I jumped over it!
In addition to bending over the horse, our teacher used to pace up and down between the stations, taking pot shots at our backsides. We likened it to the galley scene from Ben Hur, where the overseer lashes away at the slaves!
Also he often used a short, thick strap - I think it may have been an Irish punishment strap, much used by the Christian Brothers. Significantly more painful than the plimsoll - nearly as painful as the cane.
But the belt over the hands (aka the Lochgelly) was the workhorse in Scottish schools and he used that quite liberally - almost as a teaching aid. We'd have to form up at the end of most periods and watch him belt a queue of boys. An impressive show and I found myself making my appearance on quite a few occasions.
Just for the sceptics - a survey in the late 70's showed that a boy in years 1 to 3 of secondary would get the belt on average three times a term.
But I think it was effective, and I kept up with the circuits and cross country (shirtless in the early mornings) for many a year.

Rule by fear or intimidation never works. We did gym in just navy shorts and nothing else. It must have been about '68 when I was given the one and only physical beating I ever received in school and as others have said, not for doing a thing wrong but in my case I kept failing to climb confidently up a rope all the way to the top and sit there hanging for something like 15 to 20 seconds or so like he wanted and some boys managed easily. I think I was one of about three or four who didn't do it despite being given a number of chances and we got threatened with corporal punishment, which made no difference as I still failed and ended up with my shorts pulled down to my knees and a couple of very hard cracks of what must have been a cricket bat or similar across my behind along with the other couple while in the gym. It hurt a lot. It was the moment I completely lost any respect for the man that did it to me. When we changed and showered me and the others who had been hit were trying to look at our sore behinds at the redness and we even got told to stop doing that and wasting time by the man that did it to us. I would have been 12 then. I could still feel tenderness two days later and see the pink mark fading a week later.

That is a story I never even told my own parents because I was so ashamed. That kind of thing never leaves you. I have absolutely no doubt at all that the bastard that did that took some kind of satisfaction in doing so to boys like me at that age.

John, I can certainly remember one particular PE teacher in the mid 1970s at my all boys grammar school who used the slipper - a large plimsoll to make sure we were all trying as hard as we could.

Particularly for circuit training which we did once a week he would have the stations set up and we worked in pairs. You worked round the stations changing every time he blew his whistle which was about every two minutes.

He used to stand in the centre of they gym close to one of the stations that was a vaulting horse and he would look round continuously to make sure everyone was working hard. Anyone he spotted not trying as hard as he thought they should or could was called to the horse and those who were using it allowed to pause while the lad went over the horse for usually four to six hard whacks of the slipper, gym shorts were thin and white and underpants weren't allowed so those whacks stung and you had a red bottom for the rest of the day and it usually ached the following day too. I would say two or three lads got it in each lesson, I got it no more and no less than any other lad.

I still loved PE and circuits and pirates and the other things we did and the slipper or for that matter the cane which I also got quite a few times was just part of being a boy at school back then.

Incredible that you could once get corporal punishment for not trying hard enough in the eyes of a teacher which is slightly subjective in itself. Physically disciplining pupils to incentivise them into doing better, that wouldn't have worked with me and would have had quite the opposite effect, and in the changing room too. Why would any teacher want their class to actually fear them with that kind of threat hanging over them. I'm not completely surprised at that 50's behaviour. Good old days, no way were they.

This might help Alex's question about shower provision just a little bit.

The Secretary of State for Education released school regulations in 2012 that dictate the standards facilities should now adhere to, and outlined everything you must install in order to be in line with the set regulations.

Suitable changing rooms and showers had to be provided for pupils aged 11 and over who receive physical education.
Facilities had to be maintained to a standard that was deemed as reasonably practicable to ensure the health and safety of pupils.
Acoustics and sound insulation had to be suitable with regard to the nature of activities which normally take place in any room.
Toilets had to have an adequate supply of cold water, and washing facilities needed to have adequate supplies of hot and cold water.
Hot water was not to pose a scalding threat to anyone using it.


Yet in a press released article dated December 1999 the following was being suggested;

Old fashioned communal showers are to be phased out of British schools, the government said yesterday.
The notorious "run through" showers should ideally be replaced with individual cubicles whenever the facilities are refurbished or built, according to new regulations to be published next month by the department for education and employment, which has had to bow to modern expectations of privacy and religious beliefs.
Communal showers, wash rooms and changing areas are frequently blamed for turning pubescent girls off physical education, although in the state sector, communal wash facilities are more common for boys than girls.

But the facts are today that schools are expected to provide the wash facilities needed after a PE class. The last state school I worked at until thirteen years ago still operated with full old style communal showering in the changing area which boys were expected to use fully stripped down after PE unless they had a very good reason not to do so. As the 1999 article just above says, it was state school boys who have always felt the full demands of communal showering and girls often didn't even have to take it up if they chose not to.

When I think back to my own education which was a private one at an all boys school in the late 50's and early 60's I had two lengthy PE classes every week and all of us seemed to have reached a high level of ability and fitness and we were expected to perform gymwork and team sports to a high standard. My own late 50's teachers would sometimes administer occasional corporal punishment back in the changing room itself after PE for misbehaviour or even just a lack of effort.

My favourite time teaching was probably throughout the 1970's and well into the 1980's when I was younger and fitter and we could get on with the job with less interference and paperwork compared to later. For example I don't really understand why the showering issue became more contentious as time went on to the present day.

Aren't school's legally obliged to provide full showering facilities?

Tony,

Certainly when I was in the navy there were ceremonies for new guys when they first crossed the equator, usually involving King Neptune coming aboard and declaring penalties on 'new jack tars'. These varied enormously depending on how busy we were and what else was happening and the sea conditions too - it wasn't always 'plain sailing'!

When I first crossed the equator it was a fine day, there were four of us up before Neptune and there was no pressure on time. He ordered us to the barber and said we would be inspected afterwards on deck. We were shaved and I mean every last hair from our bodies, head, chest, pubic, arse crack, legs, the lot and then smeared in grease to go back on deck where Neptune waving his sword inspected with a fair amount of prodding and poking to make sure a thorough job had been done.

Once over, we were allowed to shower and then served a brilliant lunch by our mates as a reward for our good humour.

I couldn't complain, I was party to many similar things happening in the coming years and they were just a good laugh which did no harm to anyone.

One of my grandad's told me once about being 'tarred and feathered' when he worked at a printers. Another went through the crossing the line ceremony at the equator. I think they still do that. In respect of what Charlton said about going to the Falklands I'm sure they did that ceremony back then, maybe he can let us know if he did too. Nowadays if you tarred and feathered someone it would constitute assault I'm sure. It kind of depends how it's done I suppose. Some of these initiations might have been done in a more threateneing way with malice whilst others might have been done in good humour and with a degree of willing consent, although I bet a few were not consensual going back in time.

Not letting them have deoderant after PE makes me wonder if it has anything to do with allergies or asthma issues. A class all spraying aerosols at the same time in a confined room could be unpleasant. I often react to them. I do wonder how these schools that no longer even factor in showers after PE manage to do some of the outdoors wintery stuff where it's not sweat you need to get off but plenty of dirt. Some guys I was at school with used to throw themselves around the ground and come back looking as grotty as miners underground after a shift but instead of coal dust it was wet sticky mud. The school playing fields of England have obviously and mysteriously got a lot cleaner over the years and I bet not many are fake turfed either.

Just a few comments:
@ Andrew C - the aerosol ban could be because they can have habit of setting off fire alarms, etc.
@ Charlton - Thanks very much for your interesting item

Re 'ball blacking' - initiation ceremonies were common in some trades until fairly recent times - printing & coopering, for example. 'Innocent' newcomers on the railways or at sea could be told to get some 'red oil for a red lamp' (or green oil for a green lamp). At sea the 'Crossing the Line' ceremony could be quite elaborate: there is also a 'Blue Nose Ceremony' for crossing the Arctic Circle.

Why the no deoderant rule I wonder. I don't remember seeing anyone using them or any other kind when I was at school but we didn't even use anything but water in the showers much either and they didn't provide anything. Cool lukewarm showers without something to wash with seemed a waste of time to me.

I looked on my old school website this week and took a browse down the rules and regs. Under PE there were heaps of stipulations about what you could and could not wear, and what you should and should not bring, no surprises there. What caught my eye though was that there was a total ban on bringing in aerosol deoderants to school with PE whilst at the same time at no point did it mention any need to bring along a towel or even make any mention of a shower.

I couldn't believe how detailed the requirements were yet when it came to one of the old days essentials we all remember there was nothing at all to say. When you add on the ban on aerosols they clearly want them to reek nowadays or otherwise PE lessons are now so undemanding that nobody much works up enough of a sweat.

I wasn't exactly that surprised to learn that school v army PE/PT comparison favoured the army. Worth hearing, where do you even begin to start with that.

If I might just drop a few of my thoughts. I joined the regular army when I left school in the eighties and served through to my twenties. I've never heard of ball blacking by the way, but that's not why I'm here.

I struggled with authority in comprehensive school so quite a few were shocked when I joined up as soon as I left. I remember one of my PE teachers telling me I needed the discipline of something like that. Little did he realise I would take him up on it. He didn't even believe me when I first told him of my plans. One of my first postings was straight off to the Falklands post war.

With PE at the school gymnasium we got worked pretty damned hard much of the time. My PE teachers always ran a shirtless gym class and nobody inside much wore top, we had to be "stripped off to the waist" as they referred to it. It looks like some schools go big on this requirement and others don't. We showered every time with each other, no partitions, all together in one small room, completely naked and jostling rather close to each other. It was all quite disciplined and I didn't much like the way I was spoken to or treated much of the time by one or two of my PE teachers who seemed a bit power crazed and overly bossy for the sake of it rather than doing any good with it. They were not easy to respect.

I left school and went straight into the army at sixteen. The we got stuck into some really hard graft PE, although it was now called PT (physical training). The immediate thing I noticed about PT in the army was that we actually wore a vest top, none of the old school style shirtless goings on and it was like that more or less all the time. Also we had partitioned private showers too. This was all a bit of a surprise to me back then as a fresh faced recruit out of school. The army treated me with with far more respect than my old school did. No mistreatement or laying on the ego sized power tripping. Judging my school days versus my army days immediately following on I found the army and PT a far more enabling experience than anything school served up. Who would believe regular army PT would be better treated than regular comprehensive PE.

If you ever wanted a genuine PE lesson to give you some real life confidence going forward you were not going to get it in a state school that seems sure, you were going to get it in the armed forces doing PT.

Why did regular school PE lessons have such a bad reputation with so many, it wasn't that way by accident. I don't have many great words to say about my own PE schooling, what we did, how e did it, the people who took it and generalised all round overall treatement. But I could not fault my army with its PT ethos which was hard work, hurt at times but did the job it needed to and earned my respect, unlike school.

Feel free to defend yourselves out there any school teachers of mine.

Andy, what are you calling Alan out for really? Simply daring to post a different opinion, even if you think it's on the extreme side, is that all your objection has been or is there more to it? Does he not have a valid view that he is free to air, like you do. I've previously said it, it doesn't mean I have to be a 'fan' or anyone else is as such, but I'm happy to read anyones experiences, good and bad, mainstream or extreme, as long as they are authentic. You must also agree that sometimes the authenticity or the motivational issue crops up. For instance, below......

Now the kind of thing I can do without on a thread is yet another transparently pasted job from Dando here overnight that goes on and on, much of it obviously a work of complete fiction whoever and wherever it came from.

Kris on 1st June 2022 at 20:09

So many new handles popping up with nothing to add to the discussion.

Can we get back to boy's PE and all it entails? Or is Alan and his fans going to continue to wage war on calling him out?

Recent posts on ball blacking certainly evoke memories. I was in a youth group and before attending the first camp there were whispers and dark hints of an 'initiation'. I had heard tales of ball blacking at school so approached the camp with trepidation. Of course, nothing happened. It was just a wind up for us new boys.
However, many camps later, I was 'got' on the last night of one of the combined camps.
One looks back at it now quite differently but at the time it was just one of those things boys did to other boys.

Found on the Web: Reports of Forced Nudity 6 to 8
By Editor_N


Copyright 2019 by Editor_N and original posters, all rights reserved

* * * * *
This work is intended for ADULTS ONLY. It may contain depictions of sexual activity involving minors. If you are not of a legal age in your locality to view such material or if such material does not appeal to you, do not read further, and do not save this story.
* * * * *




Found on the Web: Reports of Forced Nudity Compiled and edited by Editor_N

Post 6: Nude swimming in school, swim teams

Each post below, 6-#, is a separate post unless its link to other posts is stated.

Post 6-1: from an old, now-deleted topix.com forum

Boys and girls never shared lessons or the pool together, but I recall a few times when the following girls class would arrive early,or the boys would finish late,and we had the horror of getting out the pool to our towels with girls lined up near the edge.I always felt you looked a fool if you put your hand over your penis so tried to brazen it out.And there they were nicely covered in a costume!That bugged a lot of us big time.The lads were between ages 12 to 16,myself included.At 12 I was one of the first to enter puberty so I stood out like a sore thumb for a few months which was added torture.At the time I never even let my own mother see me changing like that,and here I was at school being made to act as if I had no inhibitions at all.Most of my close friends felt exactly the same.When it comes to the showers,that is another long and winding story for my next posting.

Well I was so embarrassed about having to swim naked at my new school at age 12 that I never told even my mother.Trouble was,a number of the girls lived in my street and got to see me in that naked crawl out the pool.A few days later in front of both our mothers she said she had seen me naked with my willy out,leaving my mother thinking we had been up to kids "show me yours" kind of games!The reaction from her on finding out I was made to be naked at swimming lesson was not what I expected.She laughed,and asked me if my teacher joined us nude.He didn't,ever.This was in 1981.I always envied the few lads who could just get on with it,being naked and not fussed.But for me personally,all I could think of was "shit I am naked at school!" Then there was the fear that the girls would be ready and waiting for theyr lesson before we got out the pool to our towels.Sometimes we didn't even have towel to grab,meaning a short walk down a corridor to the boys locker room.Naked,filing along as quick as we could manage.There was a very real chance of encountering a female teacher during this short way back to the safety of our change area and our clothes.Of course it had to happen,and did a few times,and felt horrible.We were actually told to stop running and walk slowly by one vile bitch one morning.I am sure she delighted in the humiliation of barking instucyion at a dozen bare naked 14 year olds.We weren't running,just brisk.See how the very minute details of these things stay with you over 20 years later.I would really like to hear from teaching staff who took naked swimming for boys,either in the UK,USA or anywhere else for that matter.As I mentioned in earlier posting,it was the FORCED way it was done that bugs me.Not to mention the double standard of girls being given choices,and swim wear.And I still haven't got around to the showers aspect!

And to Bob,my form tutor,a female,was also the PE and swim teacher for girls,and on about 4 occasions took the boys for their swim class.The first time she took us,we were already naked in the pool when she came in to say our male teacher had a meeting and she was deputising for him.I recall the huge shock I felt with butterflies in my stomach,and I know that most of the boys felt the same.The fact that she was my form tutor made it worse still.The option of trunks was not possible as none of us had brought any,having never been allowed to wear them.If the girls had been subjected to the same ways then maybe it would have felt a bit less of an ordeal,who knows.But it ain't funny,unless you are a bold,extrovert show off with a good self image.

Post 6-2:

I have read with interest several of these posts. I was a teacher's assistant in the mid 70's at a high school in the mid west. As an assistant, I would help out where asked. Several times I helped out in the pool for both the girls and boys gym class. It was always strictly forbidden for the girls and boys to be together. The boys were naked and the girls were not in class. At first I was very intimidated by being there but after a while I really enjoyed it. I think I am the minority of women. Frequently I would come home and pleasure myself thinking about what I had seen. It was not just seeing many naked guys at once, it felt good to be in that role. A few times, it was my role to make sure the guys where moving along when the class was over which required that I go into the locker room. Several times there were slackers who moved slowly and were just getting done in the shower when all the rest had been done. A few times one of the boys had an erection. I think they wanted me to see. I would stare "there" that a few of them seemed to enjoy.

I also remember several instances where girls in the girls lockerroom sneaked out of the door and peered around a corner at the end of a corridor to catch looks.

Well the boys were not in a line as it was more informal than that. Yes they had to accept it. Some kind of turned away or covered their private parts. I do not remember anything totally unusual while in the pool area. But when I went into the locker room to make sure things were not too out of hand, I did see some interesting things. One boy had a very odd erection, it went straight up in the air. There were probably 25 kids in each class.

Post 6-3:

The school was for boys but because it was war time my older sister and the head master's daughter attended the school as well. They also swam but with swim suits. My sister and I went to the school in the holidays as our parents were friends with the head and his wife. Their two sons and I swam naked as usual and on one occasion the head's daughter also did because we got in the pool before the parents appeared.

As I remember we only had two female teachers and they did not swim with us and were not the instructors, the head and his wife did that, both in bathers. They all saw us in the bathroom, with two baths, as did the matron and the man who came to cut our hair, who I knew anyway because he was a friend of my father's and used to cut our hair at home.

Post 6-4:

when I was at college in the late 60's at the University of Maryland , College Park, the boys swim classes were nude. The girls were not. BUt the pool was by the gym so when doors were open when someone went in or out you could see a little bit. Most of us girls saw naked boys now and then. It was fun to sort of "accidentally" see.

Post 6-5:

I was studying in india.we had compulsory swimming lesson.boys were supposed to swim naked while girls could have costume.And unfortunately mostly boys and girls would be together.I never allowed my mom to see me changing but had to swim naked in school at age of 15.Often girls would look at us curiously.

Post 6-6:

The practice seemed to die out by the mid 70’s, although when my daughter was on the girls’ high school swim team they had a tradition of sneaking into the school pool and skinny dipping after the last meet of the season.(No boys present; at least that’s what she told me!).

Post 6-7: actually multiple related posts

Jane- your situation was same as jr. college I attended and it was mandatory even if lifeguard was female and even of our class range. It only happened once in a while and there were other females entering pool area as well in other work capacities. I was never aware it bothered many of the guys after the initial experience and recall the female textiles usually let us off a little early if girls' class followed our session whereas the guys would take us to last minute so could not avoid meeting girls' class as we exited.

Jane wrote: I was hired to life guard at a summer boys camp back in the early 60s. The boys, who were 7-10 year olds swam nude. I more of less took it in stride because it was the accepted way of doing things. Once or twice, I got to life guard at the older classes because the boy life guard got sick. This was much more interesting for me. I got an eye full. Once I had to life guard adult swim because I was the only life guard around when the regular life guard didn't show up. Seeing much older men was a new experience for me. It was hard for me to keep my eyes off some of the younger adults. I have to say that it left me pretty horny. I don't think that the men found it to be a sexual experience, or at least none of them "showed off" in the normal way men do when they think of sex. Hi Jane,

I know a lot of guys have trouble with your story because it is so blatently shameless and gender-based. And I mean both those attributes in a good way myself, though I believe a lot of others see them in a negative light. By shameless, I mean that neither the males nor you experienced shame during the periods you were lifeguarding, and that certainly fits exactly my own experiences in the 1960s and 1970s. No boy on my school swim team, nor at the Y that I attended felt shame (that I'm aware of) if girls or women were present. I don't recall female teachers or coaches, but there were definitely enough circumstances where girls and women of all ages were around for our nude swim practices, and no one seemed to care, or feel embarrassed, or bother at all. I never felt the girls came to peep, or to exploit our nudity, and they never behaved in any way that indicated our nakedness was the focus of their attentions - nor was it our focus. We were there to swim. They were there to watch. And by "gender-based" I meant that it was a guy-thing to swim naked - anywhere, not just in school sanctioned pools. Girls knew this, so a girl watching us wouldn't have been surprised or giggly with glee.

Post 6-8:

Clay- you sure do seem free to condemn innocent folks. At the college I attended they invited school kids for a campus tour the year before their eligibility to enroll- actually that is how I found out about the nude swimming- some girls from my class peeked into the pool area and saw some fellows from our school who were in their first year at this college doing their swim class. They told us all on the bus ride home and then it sort of passed on. We are talking about the forced nudity yet you go from "disgusting" to"now THAT makes sense"

Post 6-9:

A lady from Canada I met in Jamaica claimed that in the 50's and 60' s each gender swam naked but at different schedules- however; each conflicting class would do the utmost to get to pools before the opposite gender was completed. She joked about it and thought it was an equalization thing among the classmates- and that was jr. college. The awesome francophone society- it is possible- dunno- but we are fortunate to have the french culture imbedded in our anglais culture for many reasons other than that having possibly happened -Cndn girls of all origins are totally No 1 or 10's

Post 6-10:

I learned to swim in the YMCA which was always nude. But, we also had a pool in school and had swim class as part of PE. We were given the option of swimming nude if we wanted. Most of us swam nude as we didn't want to be bothered carrying a wet swimsuit after class. We had the pool for about 1/2 hr and then the girls had it the other 1/2 hr. The girls of course all wore swimsuits. There were plenty of times when the girls would come out to the pool before we were finished and they would sit in the bleachers and wait until we were done. We would climb out of the pool and they would just sit there and watch. It was probably a thrill for them but we didn't care.A lot of times the girls instructor would be sitting there as well. Maybe it was just the times? No big deal?

Post 6-11:

The swimming was always totally mixed sex,with the usual swim suits and speedos/trunks for boys.But the changing areas,although divided up into sections,gave ample opportunity for boys to be viewed while naked while changing and using the after pool shower run.Although not divided by sex,the lower change area was given to the boys,and a somewhat raised area was given to the girls.This meant that boys could see nothing much of changing girls,but any girls who wanted to do so,could linger in a certain area and actually watch boys taking a naked after pool rinse down.Our swim trips each fortnight were taken by a male and a female teacher from the school,as well as a member of the pool staff.I remember that even the female teacher had access all areas around the pool and changing,and seemed to spend alot of time trying to catch boys out,and succeeding many times,including once with me.

Post 6-12:

I had swimming in gym and the clothing code was we could wear whatever. I did it in jock whereas everybody did it in speedo or girls panties. There was an exception. We had water polo and half the guys were “skins” which meant wear nothing. The last day the coach promised a surprise. First the whole class was told to strip and then some of the girls ran though and screamed while looking at us. Turned out the girls’ class had girls that wanted to look so they had talked the teacher into letting them streak and making us strip for the girls. Several girls went into the cage nude. They handed out the towels while watching the showers. There were a few woodies and the girls let us know that they knew.



Found on the Web: Reports of Forced Nudity Compiled and edited by Editor_N

Post 7: Nude swimming in school, swim teams #2

Each post below, 7-#, is a separate post unless its link to other posts is stated.

Nude swimming was the rule for the boys in Dearborn, Michigan public schools in the 1960's and 1970's.

Girls did try to sneak a peek of us guys swimming nude when ever they could. Some janitor or other gym teacher would always leave a door unlocked or some window curtain not fully closed.

I remember in 8th grade when a girl in one of my classes told me that she saw me earlier that day swimming nude.Embarrassing for sure!!

At the time I never did understand why boys had to swim nude. I figured that it was some kind of control issue by the PE teachers

Post 7-2:

There was one true case of nude swimming in high school just last year. There was a girls swim team that had a female swim coach, and since there weren’t any boys at the practices the teacher let the girls practice in the nude for several weeks until a parent found out and complained. They wound up firing the teacher though.

Post 7-3: 2 possibly related posts

Years ago I visited the province of Kashmir in northernmost India. The capital, Srinagar, is by a large lake. The youngsters swim nude, both sexes, until they reach puberty. So much for the myth of Islamic modesty. You can verify this through a search through old National Geographics. It would be very good for society to promote nudity so more relationships would be based on personality. Being nude and seeing others nude makes people realize people come into two models.

***
When at primary school in the UK back in the 60's a lad from Germany joined us and over there it was the other side of the coin. In gym class the bios wore shorts/underpants....the girls were always naked. And from what I remember it was mixed!

Post 7-4: 2 posts re: Lord of the Flies movie (1960’s)

Or "Lord of the Flies" which came out in the 60's showing full frontal nudity of the boys in much of the film and which was passed as "universal" or "all ages" by the censors both in America and in Europe. I can't imagine such a film being made and shown today in public cinemas, let alone for general audiences. It was even shown as a premiere in England where the boy actors' schoolmates, including girls, attended to see it, to see the boys in their naked glory. This is just one proof that boy nudity was acceptable by everyone at least until the sixties. There was a Hollywood remake of the film a few years ago and there is not one single scene of nudity in it, as far as I can recall.

Thank God the new version of "Lord of the Flies" has been cleaned up. I had to watch the old version in my junior high English class. From what I could see all the boys hated it and the girls loved it. We also watched the movie "Romeo and Juliet" in high school but seeing a breast couldn't compare with seeing all the nudity in "Lord of the Flies

Post 7-5:

This topic brings back memories. Yes I was one of those boys who had to endure nude swimming classes. It was 1970, I was 14 years old and our family had just moved from a small town into Chicago. My small town school didn’t have much in the way of swimming facilities, and I was mortified at the prospect of swimming in the nude, but nontheless I had to do it. Also as always the boys would have to be nude, the girls would always swim in their bathing suits but swim separately. We had one male and one female teacher. Other female teachers would also occasionally pass by the pool while we swam. The worst part was when we had to line up nude for role call before we hit the pool were our teachers including the female teacher would look us over, and occasionally other teachers who would happen to be by.

I’ll admit I was a very good-looking young lad at the time, and our female teacher always seemed to pay particular attention to me. She was very attractive in her late 20’s, and I was young and naïve having come form a small town. And at that time was only starting to be interested in girls my own age and saw older women differently, so I didn’t really know what was going on, but she always seemed to be looking at me. Although several years later I did feel flattered at all the attention she gave me. A lot of times she would always make me go in the pool last, so I’d be standing there naked while everyone was in. Also often times she would talk to me to give instructions or lecture me, and once I even got a hard on while she spoke to me, it was hard to control at that age, I was very very embarassed. Once she caught me for horseplaying and made me get out of the pool and run laps in the nude around the pool. A few other times she caught me she made me get out of the pool and stand at attention in role call line in the nude, in one of those instances it was very embarrassing because the girls swim class came in early, and they were standing in front of me staring at me while they waited to use the pool. And I couldn’t do anything about it and just had to stand there while they all stared at my naked body, it felt like an eternity until they were told to wait outside, again it was very embarrassing. Every so often the girls would come in early maybe to get a peek at us boys. If that was bad enough, the next day as I walked the halls all the girls were looking at me and whispering to each other and gigling, word must have traveled fast.

It was the 70’s things were different back then, Looking back, it wasn’t that bad. Yes there were some embarrassing incidents but I got over it and didn’t really affect me that much, I can laugh about it now. If anything the whole experience made me less inhibited about my own nudity than I was prior to it. Also it made me accept that there is nothing really bad about nudity. People seem to get really uptight about it. Perhaps that is one of the reasons they had those nude swimming classes to make boys be more accepting and not be too uptight about nudity.

Post 7-6:

They would always try to keep the girls out of the pool while the boys were swimming, but they were pretty lackadaisical about it, so on occasion girls would walk in early on us, I'm pretty sure they also wanted to get a look at us boys naked. Now that I think about it, they couldn't have locked the doors to keep them out because of safety and fire codes common for most all schools.

I remember one time I was at a friend's house and his sister was trying to embarrass him in front of me, by teasing him that she saw him swimming naked at the school. He was in a different class than I was, and once in a while they had the girls class (in which his sister was in), walk in on them early too. But then their mother heard her teasing him stopped her told her its perfectly fine for boys to swim naked in school, there's nothing to be embarrassed about until they become an adult.

Again this was somewhat of the prevailing attitude back them where I was. To the adults in general back then it was no big deal, but to us it was a bit embarrassing. Not to mention coming from a woman she probably didn't know what us boys went through. So as a boy there was no grounds to complain about it, you just learn to take it in stride, and like I said I'm not bothered by it now. And a lot of times the actual part of swimming nude was fun.

Post 7-7:

As far as windows went, there was the coaches office/supply room that had a windowed mirror. You couldn't see into the office but you could see into the pool, so someone in there could be watching and you wouldn't know it. There was a door to the pool area and one in the hall way outside the pool. No one is supposed to go in there except the teachers, but they have sent students in the like me fetch stuff for them. So technically anyone could have gone in there from the outside hall door to observe us even maybe some female students. They did have some female student aides who did roam the halls doing errand for teacher, some may not have resisted the temptation to go in or simply told off-handedly to fetch something from in there. I never saw and female students go in there, but later you would hear rumors, I don't know if they were true.

Post 7-8: 2 posts on a related topic

The school system has an exchange program with a school system on one of the outer islands in Japan. We were sent one of their women's gym teacher. On the first day we had swimming. Japanese women are known for their swimming and skindiving. The first thing we learned was how to take a triangular piece of cloth and some elastic and make a cossie for swimming. When we showed up poolside dry she made us line up naked while one student hosed us all down. After a few days we found we liked going in in just a piece of cloth down there. We liked it that way so much we swam that way at every chance even with boys. If the boy looked at us too much we grabbed him his you know what and taught him to stay under two minutes and then took his damn board shorts and cut them into pieces.

In junior high we had swimming in pe. The girls did not want to shower so the pe teacher came up with a plan. The suits were to be given out only to girls who were wet and naked. The teacher was to be nude and the whole class given the option to do the same. Showers were set up poolside and girls doing the class nude could take their shower there to save time. Swimming became so popular that the pool was opened on weekends to nude girls.

Post 7-9: 3 posts on showering

My first nude shower was in school at swimming. the lockers where in the same room boys and girls in the same room, different rooms for showers.

I felt nervous at first but then got used to it.

***

the coaches for swimming did this.

-Made us swim nude for 2 weeks -made us shower in the showersr next to the pool

***
The first time I ever showered with anyone was in Jr. High on the weekend after a big swim meet. We won and every girl our locker room was very playful and touchy as much as cheery. We showered in one big group, and then we start playing with each other until the coach walked in and caught us (but I dont think he minded, lol!). We were all used to him seeing us in various states of undress (call any girl from Wanton Jr. High a slut and it will be true).

Post 7-10: 3 related posts; 1st one is a repeat from previous posts in this series

steve wrote: I went to Roosevelt h.s.in the seventies and I swam naked all 4 years. In my senior yr we had scheduling problems so the entire year boys had to share the pool with girls. Girls were allowed to wear suits. A few chose not to. we also shared the showers and locker room with them but they got dressed in a different area than the boys. It just wasnt a big deal then. Us boys were more interested in swimming than any sexual innuendo with the girls and we resented them sharing the pool with us not because we were embarrassed or anything like that but we were passionate about our swimming.

***

It does corroborate my story and confirm that it is not beyond the bounds of actuality to have a female teacher or even female students walk inside the pool area every so often while we were swimming nude without anyone going up in arms about it.

This was what I was trying to explain ---for those that had a hard time believing this. That for the time and the area or locality this was perfectly okay. The nudity in swimming was an accepted norm, even if there happened to be some females present.

***
Roosevelt HS Girls Wore Dumpy Suits

Sandi, a former female student, confirmed, "None of us knew the boys swam nude until we were at school a few months. We heard about it on the grapevine." She added, "While we (girls) wore suits, we might as well have been naked too. The swim suits that the school provided were tanks and gave us no support, and when they got wet, they stretched out and sagged down to our knees. They were very uncomfortable. And to make things worse, they were color-coded by size. Everyone knew what size I wore because my suit was an ugly gray."

Post 7-11:

I know different countries have different 'philosophies' on nudity but I do recall years ago seeing a photo of a girls PE class in Japan and the girls were all topless. They were young pubescent teenagers and I do not know the story behind the photo. Maybe they were coming indoors to take a shower but Japan did seem to have a more relaxed attitude to nudity then and may still have.

Post 7-12:

I am in my late 60s and only recently retired as a swim teacher and coach in the Midwest. I realize all too well times and attitudes have changed but they were quite different once. From the time I started high school until around 1980, I had about 25 years experience swimming , teaching and coaching nude, when policy in my school district changed and swim classes became co-ed. I was certainly never uncomfortable and to my recollection - no one else ever was - just the way things were. The need for privacy and modesty was not considered to be something necessary for boys and men. And while it was never a subject that I brought up - students in more recent years would express to me their wish to be able to swim nude as their fathers and grandfathers did.

And I never heard of CFNM fantasies until I started reading this forum. That said, I competed nude in high school in front of mixed audiences and as a coach, was frequently seen nude by mixed audiences of family, friends and faculty who would drop by swim team practices, which were nude until the same time . I was "dressed" appropriately for my job - never felt any shame or embarrassment about it. at swim team sessions was frequently seen nude

Post 7-13:

I’ve been interested by the doubt that some people have raised. I was at a private all boys school back in the mid 50's. We always had to swim nude and in summer did gymnastics and field events nude. sometimes female staff, cleaners and the like, would see us on the field. There were defiantely young females assisting Matron and sometimes they saw us nude.

Post 7-14:

I can confirm that a lot of these stories are true. At my prep school here in the UK in the late 70s this was standard practice. I thought the stories I heard from other lads were made up till I had to go through it myself at the age of 11. The naked swimming didn't actually bother me too much. I found it freaky at first, but it was only really an ordeal the first few times. It's true that you get used to it very quickly + stop thinkin about it too much. Also, it was only being naked in front of other lads in my year, + they were all naked too, so it seemed fair. The swimming instructors wore trunks though, + although we sometimes saw them showering, I think this was the only thing that really bothered me about it. Until the first competition. That's when it all suddenly became a real issue for me. Till then, we had had relative privacy. Very occasionally a senior master would come into the pool area, but since he was male, + we could just stay in the pool till he'd gone, it didn't bother us much. No female staff ever came near the pool + it was an all boy's school. I honestly couldn't believe it when we were first told that we would be competing naked in front of spectators. We'd got used to being naked in front of each other, but were absolutely horrified at the thought of being seen by anyone else. If we'd been asked to compete in front of the other years [of boys] I think we could have handled it, but not this! The worst thing was that we couldn't get out of it. I assumed that I could just choose not to compete, but no, we were told it was a compulsory part of the education program for all students. In the next few weeks, as we continued to train, we started to realise that we couldn't prevent this from becoming a terrifying reality, whatever any of us thought about it. We also heard more + more from the older boys + they seemed to delight in our discomfort. Some of them told us that the school secretary would supervise the pre - swim shower + the school nurse would make us roll back our foreskin to check if we were clean before we competed. Obviously this was nonsense, but the public nudity absolutely was not! I have never felt so humiliated in my life. The worst thing was that if we even hinted to the staff about being uncomfortable we were told to grow up + stop being a jessy + act like a man. That was fine for them - they got to keep their clothes on! I tried to feign illness + even desperately rang my parents,[not something you did back then except for emergencies, etc] It got me nowhere [except detention + a very strict warning]. My father was furious + my mother told me that boys often swim in the nude + not to make a fuss, + that we all have to do things we don't like + she would be there to support me! Not what I wanted to hear at all! The actual day was both better + worse than I could have imagined. I think in some ways it was a relief to get it over with. I remember feeling emotionally very numb - like I couldn't really feel anything at all, except a desperate kind of very slight despair. I was amazed at how calmly I was able to walk out into the pool area, I think I felt very mature at how well I was handling it, but deep down inside I just wanted the ground to swallow me up. I still couldn't quite believe that it was really happenning. I was actually calmly standing there naked, by the side of my school's swimming pool, in front of a large crowd of several dozen fully dressed people. I just prayed that - firstly, it would all be over as soon as possible + secondly,that hardly anyone I knew would see me. I had the sense not to look too closely at the crowd, but couldn't help seeing my R.E teacher [female] in the front row. She made eye contact + smiled. I just felt like dying right there. I made sure I didn't look at any of the spectators again till it was over, I just couldn't bear it. A female teacher now knew exactly how every private + most intimate part of my body looked! Not even my own mother had seen me completely naked since I was 8! In a strange kind of way it did make me focus more on the events. Not that I did very well, but I didn't really want to win - imagine having to collect a prize naked! The worst thing though, was having to wait outside the pool when not competing - at the start you were just part of a crowd, but when almost everyone else was in the water you just felt even more completely exposed. That's how I'd sum it up really. Powerless, humiliated + completely exposed. I still don't know why anyone thought it was a good idea to put us through that. After the event I realised that every teacher + member of staff in the entire school had seen every part of me - not to mention some of my friend's parents. Worst of all, my best friend Clough's 13 year old sister! Great! It's true that after the event I didn't really bother about covering myself up - but why would I? Everybody had seen everything anyway, + acting nonchalant didn't mean that I wasn't dying of embarrassment inside. I would have gladly done almost anything to have gotten out of that competition - washed every dish in the school every day for a year - whatever! Do you know - the Deputy Headmaster himself finally told me to get dressed when the spectators started to leave!??? It didn't stop there either. At the end of June we had to endure an inter-school event a few miles away at an outdoor pool. This time there were hundreds of spectators, no changing room for the visiting school [us, + I'm not kidding about that, either] + wait for it, a press photographer. It seemed also to be a tradition to invite as many girls as possible to this event, because they were everywhere, [including our so called 'changing area'] + loved every minute of it, [+ don't think for one moment that they didn't take every possible opportunity to stare at us, tease us + generally make our life hell.] Fortunately, thank heavens, this only happenned once. I cried for days + prayed that no-one would ever see any of those pictures of me [I think there were very few with full frontal nudity anyway - mostly head + shoulder shots, or photos taken during races] But I still don't understand why our modesty + privacy was so completely disregarded. I've even heard that in some schools, both sexes competed at the same events - the girls in swimsuits + the boys completely naked. I think that even at that age, I would have absolutely refused to do that - whatever the punishment - as it would have been so blatently unfair. for above

Post 7-15:

I went to high school in the late 50's and did a lot of swimming. It was customary back then for us young men to be naked any time we were in the pool area. And by the way, this applied to the adult coaches and PE instructors. Our swim meets were obviously the same. I can remember on several occasions when we had co-ed meets -- boys were nude, girls were in swim suits.

Post 7-16: 2 posts on a similar topic

I was on the swim team almost my entire life. Our practices were nude, and our swim coach (who was not the gym teacher) was also nude. Suits weren't an option. At meets, our warm-up laps were done in the nude, even with spectators. If we chose to, we could put on our suits just before the competition got under way, but this was NOT required. Sounds strange today, I know, but suits were optional at swim meets, and most of us went without. We didn't think of this as gay, or exhibitionist or sexual. We just preferred swimming this way. We had been swimming nude our entire lives, and we often had spectators when we practiced naked, so it was not a big deal to do the same at competitions. It was no secret that swimming was always nude at school, so neither was it a surprise that the swim team competed that way.. Again, this was a sport, not a peep show. I know it would be viewed differently today, but it was how things were back then.

Our swim meets were obviously the same. I can remember on several occasions when we had co-ed meets -- boys were nude, girls were in swim suits. As I was a very early adolescent bloomer -- fully developed by the time I was 15, I can remember feeling more than a little self-conscious standing up there on the diving board in all my glory before an audience. Of course that was the custom then and it had very strong peer approval and support. In any case I can remember feeling my own intense physical response to the other men in the water and would make it a point to stay well submerged. Obviously things now are quite different, but I still miss the old days.



Found on the Web: Reports of Forced Nudity Compiled and edited by Editor_N

Post 8: Nude swimming in school, swim teams #3

Each post below, 8-#, is a separate post unless its link to other posts is stated.

Post 8-1:

I was never on the junior high swim team but they did swim in the nude. I did have the opportunity a couple of times to serve as a timer for meets. The option was give to stay dressed when timing but the pool area was wet and warm so the first time I stripped. Another student timer came clothed and was uncomfortable enough that he stripped and resumed running the stop watch. As far as spectators I don't recall anyone but some dads. The pool area was small and most dads worked but a few came and stood in suits with their shoes off. I also remember one 5th or 6th grade brother coming and he actually assisted in timing. He was there several times and was asked if he could help at the next meet and showed up to run a watch. We had a little moment of truth when he realized he was going to need to strip. It was almost like he was not paying much attention when he watched the meets earlier. Very quickly he made the decision to loose the briefs and was ok the rest of the meet. I also remember running into a dad of one of my classmates who came to a meet shopping later in the week and was more uncomfortable seeing him later than standing there in my birthday suit. One junior high did use suits (new school) and when they came for a meet there was a little hesitation but not much of an issue that I recall. In fact when our school visited the school with the suits and parents could come (sisters and classmates) there was more attention paid to the kids in the very small suits.

Isn't it odd how times change. When I was young we never questioned our teachers and coaches who "forced" us into the group shower rooms or thought it odd that all the guys were swimming nude.

Now it seems that our children have a legally enforcable right to keep their trousers on.

What a long strange trip it's been!

Post 8-2:

I've read through the many interesting posts in this group and wanted to share a little back with the group. When I was in Junior High School (7th and 8th grades) we had a pool and it was mandatory for boys to swim nude both for PE swimming classes and for swimming practices. However, during swim meets we wore suits.

We all hated rainy days because there was no outside recess when the weather was bad. Instead the recess girls would go to the gymnasium and sit on the bleachers and watch the other girls in PE class and the reces guys would go to the pool and sit on the bleachers and watch the guys swim (and vice versa when the girls were swimming and the guys were playing basketball). I remember many times having to swim nude in front of my clothed schoolmates who couldn't go outside for thier recess as well as those times when I was on bleachers watching others. During the winter months, it seems like we always had a crowd of boys on the bleachers.

I recall it was pretty embarrassing at the beginning of seventh grade getting used to the nude thing - we didn't have swimming or showers in earlier grades. Not only was it tough getting used to puberty but suddenly we were naked around our friends. And then that first rainy day that recess was brought into the pool area and the rest of our friends - in their clothes - sat on the bleachers and watched us in all our glory! After a few weeks I don't think anyone even thought about it - it was just part of the class.

Post 8-3: from a now-deleted topix.com forum

How many others of you went thru that experience? I also remember the 'five finger club' where a teacher would slap you on the rump so hard it would leave a large red welt the shape of their hand on your behind. Here in Buffalo NY, during the late 60's in grade and middle school had naked swimming for boys. And amazingly how this story fit well with my own experience in the USA. Even some of the girls got to see us swimming in the pool naked. I remember them laughing and giggling. And the teachers did not care a bit. We were not as old as teenagers at this time, that school was a middle school, not a HS.

Post 8-4:

"...They bring back memories of my own nude swimming days in school. Boys were never allowed to wear anything at all during swim classes. We swam completely naked for six years because of some rule that was never explained to us. Fortunately, we liked it! I was on the swim team in high school, and our practices were nude as well, though we competed in school issued speedos. I remember one meet though, where we took a bus to the other school for a Saturday morning meet. When we came out to the pool deck, ready to swim, the other team was naked. Their coach came over and told us their school had a no-suit policy, and that meant for swim meets too. Our coach told him that we competed in suits, and he wasn't comfortable asking us to get naked because there were about a hundred spectators in the stands. But then our team captain told both coaches that it was no big deal, and he pulled off his suit and tossed it aside. The rest of us did the same, and we competed in the nude that day. Swam our best too, as I recall. Don't know why we didn't do that all the time!"

Post 8-5:

I also attended my Local 'Y' in Louisville, Ky. where I not only learned to swim but also became certified on 'SCUBA' and, yes, the rule of the day was total nudity for the males. Don't know about the females at the 'YWCA' though.

Interestingly at that facility there was a large plate glass window at the end of the pool that looked into the pool area from the hallway going to the locker rooms. I remember on several occasions seeing a couple of the 'office ladies' casually and very slowly passing by that window. I was 12 when I learned to swim and 14 when I took the scuba course. In both cases I had passed puberty so these ladies definitely saw all that I was going to be as a man. Somehow though it just didn't matter to me at the time and frankly wouldn't bother me in the least today. LOL

Post 8-6:

My uncle graduated from a now-defunct high school in 1947. There was no swimming during ww2 and also swimming was hurt by a coal strike. But for one semester, his gym class swam at an indoor natatorium ran by a park district. The class swam on alternate Tuesdays- girls w/ a one-piece on odd Tuesdays, boys with no suits on even Tuesdays. There were grammar school kids of both genders, as well as adults, gawking and laughing at the naked boys through the thick tinted glass. The pool was first floor and not all brick. The nude swimming took place in a park pool indoors, not at a Y or a school, but the boys swam nude and were seen by females. One counter-ex. is all you need to disprove an E-statement.

Post 8-7: multiple related posts

At college, back in the 60s, coaches and instructors were always nude - pool or office. It was pretty much a male-only environment - women had use of facilities only a few hours a week back then. I worked as a lifeguard and assistant to the swim instructors for the general swimming classes. I only wore a suit for inter-collegiate swim meets. These was an intramural program as well - swam in it as a freshman and sophomore - and helped run the program with one of the coaches in my last years. These events were suit optional and open to mixed audiences but I never recall wearing a suit either as a swimmer or when I assisted the coach at the events. He was nude and I followed his lead. I would say maybe about half the guys wore suits, though.

At the intramural college events, students had the option to wear a suit or not. As I recall, those who did not were either on the regular swim team, comfortable with practicing nude and/or from backgrounds like my own - from families like my own where male nudity for both men and boys was considered commonplace and ordinary. Like me, they probably did not own a swim suit while growing up. So they, like me, thought nothing of being nude in front of others.

When I was a student, girls and women were able to attend meets at and open practices at our school where coaches and swimmers were nude. As a coach in the 70s, women and girls were able to attend the open practices where I was nude as well as the swim team. I, for one, was certainly never embarrassed, nor do I recall anyone being so.

This happened at a small college in the Upper Midwest, the part of the country I am from until I moved recently. I really have no idea what the local "public indecency" statutes were at the time in this area - but whatever they were they certainly did not apply to nude male swimming in mixed company in any public or private venues in my experience at that time. And to this day - they still vary across the country.

*** a posted comment on the above:

I have to say that most of ***'s postings reflect my own personal experiences, at school, on the swim team, and at the Y. While we never did compete in the nude, our team knew of other schools that did, and we would continually ask for the same. It seemed ridiculous to us to swim and practice naked, then have to put on Speedos for an actual race. Never got permission though.

Our coach (who was not a gym teacher by the way) was nude if our practices were in the morning before school, but he wore a suit if practices were in the afternoon. I never asked why, but after participating in this forum, I would surmise it was because people (families, friends, school staff, students, etc.) would sometimes watch our afternoon practices. We did not have assistant coaches, but we did often have student teachers (college kids working towards their certification) who participated in after school activities as assistants. Those that helped out on the swim team were nude as well.

*** another related comment

Have gone back and read some of your postings - our experiences certainly do have a lot of parallels - despite some doubting our veracity !! When I was coach, my team like yours, wanted to compete nude as well. If it was up to me - certainly would have let them - but it was policy by that time that all meets were suited. Their best times were invariably in practice when they were nude. I was both teacher and coach - no budget to have two separate positions. But unlike your coach, I stayed bare for open practices where family and friends may have been watching. I was certainly comfortable that way and no one ever questioned it. As someone else said, I was in "uniform" for my job, as I was in the water a lot myself then teaching and demonstrating technique.

As a high school student, in the earlier 1960s, I was able to compete nude at home meets and maybe about half of away meets. My Dad was coach, and any meet under his management was swimsuit optional. That said, our entire team was always nude, to my recollection, given the chance - how we best competed.

As a high school coach, in the 1970s, up to around 1980, our practices were always nude, but meets were suited - per policy in the district - and I believe any other district in our area then. But I never wore a suit myself in these practices, no matter time of day

Post 8-8:

I was talking with one of the girls from my class the other week who I hadn't seen for years and she remembered those times .she recalled how as a 15 year old girl and the other girls in the class did look forward to seeing the boy who had forgot his kit cause they new they where going to get to see everything as she put it and over the school year she thinks she saw over 3/4 of the boys in the class nude and she said as a15 year old girl it answered a lot of question about the male body for the girls

Post 8-9: multiple posts on the same topic

As you say many schools did not have total privacy for boys. Also I believe that a lot of secret peeking went on in many schools by the girls. Although as Mike says it was not easy or common for females to just walk in on the boys when they were swimming nude, a lot of them found ways to look at the boys just the same. Some women have even commented on these forums about how they used to regularly peek at the boys when they were schoolgirls.

***

I've been searching for a discussion board/blog of folks that went to Central High in Fargo, North Dakota. The school district site hosted this blog and folks would reminisce and post their memoirs about the olden days in the 40s, 50s and 60s. For a long time, the high school had swimming practice typical of the days, guys swam nude, girls swam with suits on. here were dozens of stories about the boys class swimming nude posted by alumni.

One woman had posted an account of how both the boys and girl locker rooms opened into the swim area. She said that there were cracks in these doors, and that the girls could peek through from their locker room and view the boys classes as they swam nude. She told of stories how she and the other girls could watch the boys swim classes, watch them line up for roll call, etc. She added that when caught, they got in trouble. But in retrospect she said she would do it again if she had the chance. Also, in the same memoirs, a guy posted how he could always hear giggles coming from behind the girl's locker room doors when he was on that end of the pool.

***

I think this actually did happen. It reminds me of a post on the old forum where a poster who regularly swam nude in gym class was once told by his mother that a friend of hers who worked at his school as a teacher or office worker remarked that her son was a good diver from the sprinboard. The boy asked how did she know and was shocked when she told him that the female staff could see them from the office windows which were high above the pool. I don't think the female teachers or staff would have missed this opportunity when it was so easy.

Post 8-10:

It was a man/boys thing, however in school the boys swam naked and the girls wore suits but we never swam at the same time. I remember they always tried to keep us separate but there were many times a few of the girls would come to the pool and sit and wait for us to finish.It also was not uncommon to have a female instructor walk into the pool room while we were practicing.The female instructors never bothered us as they didn't hang out and rarely paid attention to us but the girls would sit on the bleachers and watch us and sometimes they would be sitting where we had our towels so it was a little uncomfortable, even for me and I was a practicing nudist or as much of one as you can be at 12 yrs old.

Post 8-11:

I just came across this group and it brought back memories that I thought I had filed and forgotten years ago. I am ancient, I'm sure, compared to most posters here, but I recall back in the 1950s when I was about eight or nine being taken by my mother to a "Y" in a small suburb of New York City. It may have been White Plains, N.Y.,but that detail is foggy to me. I do remember my shock at meeting the instructor (a woman whom I thought then to be very old but in fact was probably in her early to mid-20s) and being told the rule was the boys would take class naked. The teacher wore a one-piece, black bathing suit. She apologized to my mother that since there had been a drop in the number of students recently, I would be in a mixed-age class, ranging from as young as six to as old as 14. My mother thought that would be okay and we returned next week for the first class. I went into the locker room alone -- some of the other younger boys were accompanied by their mothers. My mother had to leave and I was picked up after the lesson by my father. It was a small Y with a small locker room and there was no way to undress out of sight of the 4 or 5 mothers in the room. One of them, I recall, much to my horror, felt her son's body (he was about 7) all over when he was naked, almost like a judge at a dog show (my father both showed and judged at dog shows, so I was aware of the drill.) It may have been my imagination, but she seemed to spend an inordinate amount of time checking his penis and scrotum. Then the instructor marched in and blew a whistle, and said in a loud voice that it was time for class to begin. We all marched in (about 12 of us, mostly young, but one 14 year-old who maintained an erection as went into the pool area.) We lined up, more or less according to height, in front of the instructor near the edge of the pool. We were facing the four rows of benches that lined one wall of the pool area for spectators. I was stunned to see at least eight adult women in the stands and about an equal number of young girls (a couple of toddlers and at least three teenagers, including one who was the sister of one of my friends. Apparantly, she babysat in the afternoons for one of the young boys in ther class and one of her duties was to bring his to swim lesson. I saw that she recognized me and I went crimson from head to toe. During class, while we were using flutter boards, the instructor would adjust our bodies so that were kicking correctly. Her hand went under water and brushed up from my upper thigh, across my balls and penis and on to my stomach. Even at nine, I felt something I didn't understand going on in my crotch. After class, something even worse occurred. As I was in the locker room, still naked and facing my locker, I felt a hand on my shoulder and someone said,"Is that you, Reinhard -------?" I turned around to discover that the hand belonged to my piano teacher, Mrs. Grabansky. I was mortified. She said something to me about how nice it was to know that I was in the same class as her son, patted me on bare ass and moved on. I can't remember how long the classes went on -- it seemed like forever. But if was pretty much the same routine evry time. And even though I did learn to swim, I resented the humiliation I felt. One day, swhen my couraged was up,I recall asking the instructor if the girls were naked when they learned to swim, and could I come watch? She patted my shoulder. "Oh, no. The girls don't swim naked. And no visitors are allowed during their lessons. They wouldn't like it and besides it wouldn't be right." Are there any other old duffe

Post 8-12: Disney film

Disney is said to have made one film in the ? 50's showing boys swimming nude at a swimming hole, and apparently the grammar school was invited to watch the filming and they did. Forgot what film that was, but I can probably find out.

The film was Pollyanna (1960), undoubtedly filmed in the late 50's. The boys who skinny dipped were extras from the local town. The report I saw was that the boys' grammar school class including the girls came and watched the filming. When asked about it later the film's star, Hayley Mills couldn't even remember the swimming sequence which is the opening scene in the movie. That's how ordinary this was considered at that time.

Post 8-13:

BTW when I was in high school (Los Angeles in the mid-70s) we swam naked and water polo practice was naked, but we wore Speedos when the public was there for a meet or game.

Post 8-14:

In my junior high, in the 70s, boys swam nude and girls wore school-supplied suits. (The school supplied and laundered suits and towels.) Boys took shop and girls took Home Economics. That's how it was.

"And now we have the forum police determining what can or cannot be posted." says Andy.

You have described your own behaviour. Nobody else's. YOURS!

You sound like you're going mad.

Gareth J on 1st June 2022 at 12:17

And now we have the forum police determining what can or cannot be posted.

As I've said before for a poster who clearly hasn't read it, I will choose what I respond to. Or not.

Just like everyone else.